Brendan Smith

[wings7 62]

He's just not being used correctly, that's all. He's an offensive defenseman. Babs needs to play to those strengths by using him as such. I mean, how good would he be if he got the most offensive zone starts, and least defensive responsibility of anyone on the team?

Oh wait. He already does.

Yikes.

Make him a forward then!

For the Griffins!!

[krsmith17 7,191]

Who's getting cocky? That would be you along with every other Smith hater on here... I'm sure you're thrilled that Smith is faltering right now. Yeah, Smith has been scratched over a rookie, but don't kid yourself, it's not a permanent replacement after ONE game... He hasn't played as badly as LGW wants to believe he has, and Babcock is just sending a message. Like I've stated several times now, I don't mind the decision, but I'm sure he will be back in in this first round series.. Add that to my quotes that you have saved...

[kipwinger 8,522]

Make him a forward then!

For the Griffins!!

I think he should leave hockey altogether and take up a career in public relations. I mean, his ability to deflect criticism is second to none. And people genuinely seem to like him, regardless of his actions. He's like that guy from the film "Thank You for Smoking".

Who's getting cocky? That would be you along with every other Smith hater on here... I'm sure you're thrilled that Smith is faltering right now. Yeah, Smith has been scratched over a rookie, but don't kid yourself, it's not a permanent replacement after ONE game... He hasn't played as badly as LGW wants to believe he has, and Babcock is just sending a message. Like I've stated several times now, I don't mind the decision, but I'm sure he will be back in in this first round series.. Add that to my quotes that you have saved...

He lost his job to a rookie at the most important time of the year. Stop down playing it. It's REALLY significant.

You know who else lost his job to a rookie heading into the playoffs? Jimmy Howard. You know why? Because he's played REALLY badly.

Smith too.

[nawein 324]

Who's getting cocky? That would be you along with every other Smith hater on here... I'm sure you're thrilled that Smith is faltering right now. Yeah, Smith has been scratched over a rookie, but don't kid yourself, it's not a permanent replacement after ONE game... He hasn't played as badly as LGW wants to believe he has, and Babcock is just sending a message. Like I've stated several times now, I don't mind the decision, but I'm sure he will be back in in this first round series.. Add that to my quotes that you have saved...

So if Smith loses his job to a rookie, then said rookie (who is actually young, with 14 games played in the NHL) falters and loses the job, it somehow makes Smith better? That's not even logical. Also, coaches don't sit people to send messages going into the playoffs. Coaches sit people to send messages in the middle of the season. Babcock isn't sending a message. He's playing Marchenko over Smith because Marchenko gives us a better chance to win than Smith does.

[kipwinger 8,522]

So if Smith loses his job to a rookie, then said rookie (who is actually young, with 14 games played in the NHL) falters and loses the job, it somehow makes Smith better? That's not even logical. Also, coaches don't sit people to send messages going into the playoffs. Coaches sit people to send messages in the middle of the season. Babcock isn't sending a message. He's playing Marchenko over Smith because Marchenko gives us a better chance to win than Smith does.

Any minute now, Smith is going to breakout. Just you wait and see. He just needs the proper motivation and usage. That's all.

After Babs "sends him a message", he'll be a stud. But only if he never has to play defense, gets 20 minutes a night, and powerplay time.

But boy will you be eating crow once that happens!

Edited April 14, 2015 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

nawein, that's exactly what everyone is trying to do here, make that play seem WAY worse than it was. "It's the equivalent of a defensive football player running off the sidelines midplay to make a tackle and thinking he'll get away with it"... Really? Give me a f***ing break. It's the equivalent of a defensive football player standing on the sidelines midplay and the football being thrown toward him that was likely going to be either out of play or incomplete, and he swipes at it so it doesn't hit him... You act as if Smith jumped over the boards midplay and checked a player with the puck, which is much worse in comparison, and HAS happened in the NHL, it's called "too many men" and it happens on a bad line change... Bottom line, Smith is taking way too much heat for that play, and that play can happen another 10 times and I bet it doesn't get called. The refs didn't see it and it should never have been called. Even after it was called a penalty, if Montreal didn't score on the ensuing power-play people wouldn't have cared...

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Make him a forward then!

For the Griffins!!

Maybe he can play with Nyquist and Tatar the 4th line grinders...

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'm agreeing that Smith has played poorly, I'm saying that it was likely the right decision, so what's your point. That's not to say that either Smith nor Howard are done for the year, or that their done in Detroit or the NHL... like some people seem to be suggesting. The hate on these boards is ridiculous, whether it's Howard, Ericsson, Kindl, Smith or whoever... Everyone likes the new shiny toys, so bring on the kids right? They're sure to be better than we currently have...

[kipwinger 8,522]

Lol.

Lets look at the number of excuses you can make for ONE, glaring, mistake.

1.It could happen to anybody.

2. It happens all the time.

3. If the refs wouldn't have seen it, nobody would care.

3.It shouldn't have been called.

4.Nobody would care if it hadn't ended in a goal against.

The excuse making for Smith is getting comical.

I'm agreeing that Smith has played poorly, I'm saying that it was likely the right decision, so what's your point. That's not to say that either Smith nor Howard are done for the year, or that their done in Detroit or the NHL... like some people seem to be suggesting. The hate on these boards is ridiculous, whether it's Howard, Ericsson, Kindl, Smith or whoever... Everyone likes the new shiny toys, so bring on the kids right? They're sure to be better than we currently have...

Nope. They're just better than Smith and Howard, according to the coach anyway.

None of Ericsson, Quincey, Andersson, Weiss, or any of the other "whipping boys" lost their job to a rookie.

Just Smith. And Howard.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I'm agreeing that Smith has played poorly, I'm saying that it was likely the right decision, so what's your point. That's not to say that either Smith nor Howard are done for the year, or that their done in Detroit or the NHL... like some people seem to be suggesting. The hate on these boards is ridiculous, whether it's Howard, Ericsson, Kindl, Smith or whoever... Everyone likes the new shiny toys, so bring on the kids right? They're sure to be better than we currently have...

Well Marchenko hasn't really done anything dumb yet. So until he does, he's my guy. If Smith can take his job back at some point, then good for him too. I personally have no agenda here, I just want the guys to play that give this team the best chance of winning.

Lol.

Lets look at the number of excuses you can make for ONE, glaring, mistake.

1.It could happen to anybody.

2. It happens all the time.

3. If the refs wouldn't have seen it, nobody would care.

3.It shouldn't have been called.

4.Nobody would care if it hadn't ended in a goal against.

The excuse making for Smith is getting comical.

For me, saying "He screwed up" seems a lot easier than issuing a laundry list of excuses.

[kipwinger 8,522]

For me, saying "He screwed up" seems a lot easier than issuing a laundry list of excuses.

Especially considering the frequency with which he screws up. It must be exhausting trying to find ways to explain away all his gaffs.

As I've said since forever. Brendan Smith is a third pair defenseman with upside. Nothing more.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'm not in any way trying to come up with excuses I'm just stating what happened. Yes he f***ed up and it was a TERRIBLE decision that cost the team a point in a critical situation. Smith and Howard both deservedly lost the coach's trust in that game, but they both can and will earn it back...

Yes Kip, it could have happened to anyone. It didn't, it happened to Smith, but if it did happen to DeKeyser or Kronwall people would have said, "Dumb play" and moved on. This has just added fuel to the Smith hate fire... Where did I ever say it happens all the time? I didn't and it obviously doesn't... The refs DIDN'T see it, so no it should not have been a penalty... And if it wasn't a penalty, who would care? Pucks hit gloves and sticks that are hanging over the boards all the time, there is no penalties called. It was a strange play that we will likely never see again, certainly not by Smith...

Yeah, according to the coach that always makes the right personnel decisions... Babcock is clueless when it comes to roster decisions according to Kip unless it fits his argument... much like a lot of other things.... Nope, Andersson or Weiss have NEVER been scratched in favor of Jurco... Nope...

I find it quite humorous that "positive" things can be said about Smith throughout this thread and you won't respond to any of them until I do, then it's guns-a-blazin'... I should send my messages to another regular and get them to post just to see if you would respond to them the same way you do to me...

[kipwinger 8,522]

I'm not in any way trying to come up with excuses I'm just stating what happened. Yes he f***ed up and it was a TERRIBLE decision that cost the team a point in a critical situation. Smith and Howard both deservedly lost the coach's trust in that game, but they both can and will earn it back...

Yes Kip, it could have happened to anyone. It didn't, it happened to Smith, but if it did happen to DeKeyser or Kronwall people would have said, "Dumb play" and moved on. This has just added fuel to the Smith hate fire... Where did I ever say it happens all the time? I didn't and it obviously doesn't... The refs DIDN'T see it, so no it should not have been a penalty... And if it wasn't a penalty, who would care? Pucks hit gloves and sticks that are hanging over the boards all the time, there is no penalties called. It was a strange play that we will likely never see again, certainly not by Smith...

Yeah, according to the coach that always makes the right personnel decisions... Babcock is clueless when it comes to roster decisions according to Kip unless it fits his argument... much like a lot of other things.... Nope, Andersson or Weiss have NEVER been scratched in favor of Jurco... Nope...

I find it quite humorous that "positive" things can be said about Smith throughout this thread and you won't respond to any of them until I do, then it's guns-a-blazin'... I should send my messages to another regular and get them to post just to see if you would respond to them the same way you do to me...

Yawn. More excuses.

Edited April 14, 2015 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

Yup, that's exactly what it is Kip... Great chat as always...

[kipwinger 8,522]

I'm agreeing that Smith has played poorly, I'm saying that it was likely the right decision, so what's your point. That's not to say that either Smith nor Howard are done for the year, or that their done in Detroit or the NHL... like some people seem to be suggesting. The hate on these boards is ridiculous, whether it's Howard, Ericsson, Kindl, Smith or whoever... Everyone likes the new shiny toys, so bring on the kids right? They're sure to be better than we currently have...

Finally, we agree on Brendan Smith. He has played poorly, and benching him was the right decision. Glad to see you've come to your senses.

[krsmith17 7,191]

It's not that I have "come to my senses", I just watch the games and base my opinion off of that. If he's playing poorly I will gladly admit it. Whereas if he is playing great, like he has for stretches this season, you along with a few others on here won't admit it...

That doesn't mean that he should be permanently scratched or that the player that is replacing him is necessarily better, just that he is the better option right now.

[kipwinger 8,522]

Tell me again, when were these long stretches where he played great? Because what I saw was a defenseman who was heavily sheltered all season long, didn't score, didn't hit, and didn't play special teams.

What was it that he was doing so well? And when?

Edit: Or instead of answering any of these question, you could PM me and call into question my "fanhood" because I occasionally miss games and have to DVR them and rely on "stats" to inform myself about the team.

Nice.

Edited April 14, 2015 by kipwinger

[number9 3,297]

Especially considering the frequency with which he screws up. It must be exhausting trying to find ways to explain away all his gaffs.

As I've said since forever. Brendan Smith is a third pair defenseman with upside. Nothing more.

Upside is a little generous at this point

[kipwinger 8,522]

Upside is a little generous at this point

I guess I'm in a generous mood today as well. Then again, he has played well for long stretches of the season lol. Ask anybody...just don't bother to actually verify it.

[wings7 62]

NO ONE DOES THAT.

IT DIDN'T JUST HAPPEN TO BE SMITH.

OH MY! YOU'RE BANNED!

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Upside is a little generous at this point

How do we know when he's not given the chance? When he played with Kronwall he has looked pretty decent, albeit small sample size but to say there is no upside is not true. He's not a defensive minded guy, he's more offense driven. As I said earlier, we are not playing him to his strengths, he should have absolutely been given a chance on the PP this year.

[kipwinger 8,522]

How do we know when he's not given the chance? When he played with Kronwall he has looked pretty decent, albeit small sample size but to say there is no upside is not true. He's not a defensive minded guy, he's more offense driven. As I said earlier, we are not playing him to his strengths, he should have absolutely been given a chance on the PP this year.

He's given more offensive zone starts than anyone one the team. He's asked to defend against the other teams' worst players. How is he not being used to his strength? Babcock already shelters him more than every other defender we have. Despite this, he's our lowest scoring regular defenseman, and our second worst regular defensiveman in his own zone (behind Kindl).

What's Babs supposed to do that he's not already doing? 100% offensive zone starts? 75%? 60% How sheltered does he need to be in order to be effective, and at what point are there diminishing returns on a guy like that?

[Echolalia 2,961]

I'm also in the minority in that Smith gets an unnecessarily bad rap around here, although I will preface this post by saying I haven't caught many games in the past month or so, so my evaluation of the guy is based mostly on pre-deadline Smith. It may be he took a nosedive since then.

Anyway, Smith has a few things working against him from a fan's perspective: 1) he was a highly touted draft pick with an offensive upside, who was stepping into the NHL right around the time when Rafalski and Lidstrom were wrapping up their careers. In other words, there was a gaping hole to fill, and Smith happened to be coming into the league right when we were looking to fill it. Right off the bat there's a lot of things us fans were expecting of him, and in his first 12-14 games up he actually delivered quite nicely. But when he became a Wing full-time his game changed from being an offensive defensman to a more defense-oriented player. That transitition doesn't sit well with several fans because they're either still judging his play based on what a scout said he could be back when he was in college, or they're upset about losing our offensive output in Rafalksi and Lidstrom, and Smith was unable to put up big numbers to help fill that void.

2) I've noticed that many fans judge defensman primarily based on two things: 1. the aformentioned offensive output (which is why players like Karrlson and Green win Norris trophies), and how often they deliver crushing hits and play physicially (which is why so many people suddenly thought Kronwall wasn't a top 2 defensman once he slowed his Kronwalling down). There's surprisingly not a whole lot of attention for actual defensive plays (and if there is, we often forget about them by the end of the game), and frankly its not hard to see why because there aren't many quantifaible stats on defensive plays out there, and the ones that are our there are convoluted and intimidating, and require some introduction to understand. So Smith isn't a big hitter, and he isn't an offensive defensman. Consequently he's not going to have sexy numbers on nhl.com. But that by itself doesn't mean he's a bad defensman. I do think its worth mentioning that Smith has the most amount of takeaways out of all defensman on our team, and is second highest out of all our defensman in takeaways per game/giveaways per game ratio. That second value, particularly, is a good measuring stick for defensive defensman. It means less opportunity for the opposition to generate offense, and more opportunity for the Wings. Thats why its not a surprise to see that Smith also leads all our defenseman in corsi (by alot), which is even more impressive when you note that Smith is last of our defensman in offensive zone start percentage.

3) Probably the biggest thing Smith has going against him is that its trendy to hate him. People go out of their way to find flaws and mistakes in Smith's game, sometimes to ridiculous lengths. I had an argument a few months back with a poster who tried arguing that Smith was also to blame for a giveaway that Ericsson had to Parise at the end of a game against Minnesota (for the record, Ericcson was behind the net, unpressured, Parise was in front of the net, waiting, Smith was the safe outlet pass at the corner, which Ericcson didn't utilize, and instead tried beating Parise with an ill-advised pass). Apparently Smith was supposed to predict that Parise would intercept the pass and cover Parise preemptively, instead of provide an open man for Ericsson to pass to. Now don't get me wrong, Smith does make plenty of mistakes that he definitely deserves blame for, but there are also plenty of times when Smith just happens to be in the same building as someone else's mistake but still gets the finger pointed at him. Similiarly, our other defensman make plenty of mistakes that go unnoticed here, or at the very least people don't make a big fuss about them. Datsyuk has blown coverages quite a few times this year which have lead directly to goals. So has Zetterberg, Kronwall, Dekeyser, etc etc etc. But Smith is the trendy one to hate on now, so his mistakes are the ones that are emphasized.

So echolalia, if Smith is so great, why is Babcock sitting him??

Well I don't think Smith is great, but I do think he's better than LGW values him. I think Babcock plays him appropriately for his skillset to succeed the most, and Smith has been effective in that role. But based on Babcock's decision to play Mrazek over Howard, and Marchenko over Smith, I strongly believe Babs is pushing a fast-transition agenda for game 1. Whatever upside Smith may have over Marchenko, he is not a right-handed defensman and won't be as efficient as getting the puck up from that side simply for that reason. Likewise, whatever advantage Howard has over Mrazek, nobody can deny Mrazek is essentially a third defensman back there, and that is going to help our transition game markedly. The emphasis here is getting the puck out as quickly and efficiently as possible. Afterall, the Lightning can't score if they're not in our zone. Its a risky move, to be sure. Babcock is investing in tactics over experience. But I'm not against seeing where it takes us for game 1.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

[VM1138 1,921]

How do we know when he's not given the chance? When he played with Kronwall he has looked pretty decent, albeit small sample size but to say there is no upside is not true. He's not a defensive minded guy, he's more offense driven. As I said earlier, we are not playing him to his strengths, he should have absolutely been given a chance on the PP this year.

He did get time on the PP this year. He couldn't keep the puck in the attacking zone.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Great post Echolalia! Sums up exactly how I feel about Smith as well. And for the record, I remember that exact play you were talking about, where Smith was blamed for Ericsson's brutal pass, and I also remember who the argument was with, but that's neither here nor there... Point is, many people do go to extreme lengths to point out Smith's f*** ups and the same goes for Ericsson. But the same people will brush it off if Kronwall or DeKeyser make the exact same f*** up...