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HockeytownRules19

Smith in. Marchenko out for Game 3

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Aaaaaand we're back to suggesting Smith should be on the top pair? C'mon guys.

I don't have a problem with him coming back in for Marchenko. Marchenko hasn't looked great. But if any of you think Smith would look better than Ericsson against Tampa's best players you're nuts.

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Hey the kids at Children's Hospital just got rich!

But seriously, as "little girl with the curl" as Smith can be last year against Boston he caused some havoc joining the rush which I think might be the idea behind this.

Edited by Jersey Wing

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Aaaaaand we're back to suggesting Smith should be on the top pair? C'mon guys.

I don't have a problem with him coming back in for Marchenko. Marchenko hasn't looked great. But if any of you think Smith would look better than Ericsson against Tampa's best players you're nuts.

This is only suggested because last year when they paired Smith and Kronner together, Smith's play went up. That's it. it's not about Smith being a number 1 d man. Its' just that when he is paired with Kronwall, he's a better overall D man.

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This is only suggested because last year when they paired Smith and Kronner together, Smith's play went up. That's it. it's not about Smith being a number 1 d man. Its' just that when he is paired with Kronwall, he's a better overall D man.

No he's not better, he just looks better.

It's like back when we had Ian White paired with Lidstrom. The only thing it did was make Ian White look better than he was. But it didn't make him, or the team, perform better.

Putting Smith (or White) on the first pair doesn't make him a first pair defenseman. And no matter how much you dress it up, you're still advocating putting a third pair defenseman on the first pair.

Kronwall probably makes Ericsson look better than he is too. But that doesn't seem to be working out. Why would it work any better with a guy who's worse than E is?

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Aaaaaand we're back to suggesting Smith should be on the top pair? C'mon guys.

I don't have a problem with him coming back in for Marchenko. Marchenko hasn't looked great. But if any of you think Smith would look better than Ericsson against Tampa's best players you're nuts.

Smith playing with Kronwall gives us 3 solid pairings instead of 2. Many of us feel that Smith with Kronwall and E with Zidlicky would be a much better option than Smith and Zidlicky as the third pairing. Nobody is saying Smith playing with Kronwall makes the #1 pairing better than it already is. But it doesn't make it much worse (if at all) either.

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I'd rather have 2 decent-pretty good pairs and one terrible pair, then 2 okay pairs and 1 pretty good pair

Just trying to balance it out ... Guess I'd rather try to have no terrible pairs

As for the other one complaining about smith being on the top line clearly he's not a 1st pair dman but neither are most of the guys we got ... Gotta work with what we got

If we keep smith on the 3rd pair then he's gonna be paired with zidlicky and I personally don't like that pair , your just asking for trouble

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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Too be clear, I'm not even saying that Smith shouldn't replace Marchenko. I don't really care about that. Marchenko has been bad.

But I'm curious why we'd go from one extreme to the other. A week ago Smith played his way out of the lineup. Now, not only is he going to make us more physical (he won't), more offensive (he won't), but he's going to be trusted to play against the top lines on the most offensively potent team in the NHL?

How does that make ANY sense at all?

Can we just put him on the third pair and hope he plays mistake free hockey down there? I think that would be good enough.


Smith playing with Kronwall gives us 3 solid pairings instead of 2. Many of us feel that Smith with Kronwall and E with Zidlicky would be a much better option than Smith and Zidlicky as the third pairing. Nobody is saying Smith playing with Kronwall makes the #1 pairing better than it already is. But it doesn't make it much worse (if at all) either.

No it doesn't. Smith and Kronwall isn't a solid pair. It's a third pairing defenseman on a top pair. It's Kronwall plus a mistake prone bottom pair guy, going up against the best offense in the league.

Smith was THE MOST sheltered defenseman we had all season, and he was still awful defensively. He was awful with the puck. He was negligible offensively.

That's not going to improve by giving him harder starts, against better players.

He may be an upgrade over Marchenko. But if you think he's going to better better than Ericsson on the top pair you're ignoring literally every single indicator available and focusing entirely on a best case scenario that existed (maybe) for a couple of games during the regular season a year ago.

If Kronwall and Smith were such a good pair, why do you suppose Babs didn't keep them together?

Edited by kipwinger

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Smith playing with Kronwall gives us 3 solid pairings instead of 2. Many of us feel that Smith with Kronwall and E with Zidlicky would be a much better option than Smith and Zidlicky as the third pairing. Nobody is saying Smith playing with Kronwall makes the #1 pairing better than it already is. But it doesn't make it much worse (if at all) either.

Thing that scares me about a zidlicky Ericsson pairing is i can see them being out of position and tampa player flying to the net alone ... Can't see either of those 2 going back and catching someone

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Too be clear, I'm not even saying that Smith shouldn't replace Marchenko. I don't really care about that. Marchenko has been bad.

But I'm curious why we'd go from one extreme to the other. A week ago Smith played his way out of the lineup. Now, not only is he going to make us more physical (he won't), more offensive (he won't), but he's going to be trusted to play against the top lines on the most offensively potent team in the NHL?

How does that make ANY sense at all?

Can we just put him on the third pair and hope he plays mistake free hockey down there? I think that would be good enough.

No it doesn't. Smith and Kronwall isn't a solid pair. It's a third pairing defenseman on a top pair. It's Kronwall plus a mistake prone bottom pair guy, going up against the best offense in the league.

Smith was THE MOST sheltered defenseman we had all season, and he was still awful defensively. He was awful with the puck. He was negligible offensively.

That's not going to improve by giving him harder starts, against better players.

He may be an upgrade over Marchenko. But if you think he's going to better better than Ericsson on the top pair you're ignoring literally every single indicator available and focusing entirely on a best case scenario that existed (maybe) for a couple of games during the regular season a year ago.

If Kronwall and Smith were such a good pair, why do you suppose Babs didn't keep them together?

I agree with you, but Babs isn't exactly logical about his personnel decisions.

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From St.James :

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/04/20/detroit-red-wings-brendan-smith-speed/26081585/

Zetterberg estimated Smith "has learned stuff. He is more experienced and I think he played well for us this year.

"Tampa is a high-speed skating team, and when Smith plays, he can really skate with the puck, and he can keep up with their forwards. I think he's a good fit for the series."

"Stay positive, that' the biggest thing," Smith said, "I was working hard and bag-skating myself, getting Tony to help me out with things that we're working on."

As for what he thought of Babcock's message, Smith simply said he wanted "to be ready when my number is called."

Abdelkader, who missed the first two games for health reasons, said Smith's stay in the doghouse, "was getting at him, but he stayed positive and he worked hard. He's going to provide some physicality for us - he's a big defenseman that takes a body, makes it hard for opponents to get to the front of the net. I think he'll be a big boost. He's raring to go."

It's from St.James, but doesn't sound like Smith has attitude problems. That's good, I hope he has a huge game tomorrow.

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From St.James :

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/04/20/detroit-red-wings-brendan-smith-speed/26081585/

It's from St.James, but doesn't sound like Smith has attitude problems. That's good, I hope he has a huge game tomorrow.

He doesn't have attitude problems, he just has monkeys riding tricycles in circles in his head

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Too be clear, I'm not even saying that Smith shouldn't replace Marchenko. I don't really care about that. Marchenko has been bad.

But I'm curious why we'd go from one extreme to the other. A week ago Smith played his way out of the lineup. Now, not only is he going to make us more physical (he won't), more offensive (he won't), but he's going to be trusted to play against the top lines on the most offensively potent team in the NHL?

How does that make ANY sense at all?

Can we just put him on the third pair and hope he plays mistake free hockey down there? I think that would be good enough.

No it doesn't. Smith and Kronwall isn't a solid pair. It's a third pairing defenseman on a top pair. It's Kronwall plus a mistake prone bottom pair guy, going up against the best offense in the league.

Smith was THE MOST sheltered defenseman we had all season, and he was still awful defensively. He was awful with the puck. He was negligible offensively.

That's not going to improve by giving him harder starts, against better players.

He may be an upgrade over Marchenko. But if you think he's going to better better than Ericsson on the top pair you're ignoring literally every single indicator available and focusing entirely on a best case scenario that existed (maybe) for a couple of games during the regular season a year ago.

If Kronwall and Smith were such a good pair, why do you suppose Babs didn't keep them together?

Because before we got Zidlicky, Smith and Marchenko made for a solid third pairing. I'm not here saying Smith is our savior by any means. But he is certainly a better player than you make him out to be.

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Because before we got Zidlicky, Smith and Marchenko made for a solid third pairing. I'm not here saying Smith is our savior by any means. But he is certainly a better player than you make him out to be.

Which is why he got scratched for a rookie with 12 games of experience heading into the playoffs?

If anything, I'd say he's pretty much exactly as good as I "make him out to be".

And suggestions that he should be on the top pair with Kronwall laughably over inflate his value.

I've said 2 million times and counting. He's a third pair defenseman with upside. How's that under rating him?

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Which is why he got scratched for a rookie with 12 games of experience heading into the playoffs?

If anything, I'd say he's pretty much exactly as good as I "make him out to be".

And suggestions that he should be on the top pair with Kronwall laughably over inflate his value.

I've said 2 million times and counting. He's a third pair defenseman with upside. How's that under rating him?

Not one person is saying Smith is a top pairing dman, but that is what you are arguing. Ericsson isn't a top pairing dman either, but he has been playing in that role all year long. Not one person said he should play with Kronwall because he is a top dman. He and Kronwall have played well together in the past. On more than one occasion.

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Kronwall himself isn't a top pair d-man imo, and to putting others on his line shouldn't be considered blasphemy. The Red Wings don't truly have a legitimate top pairing. Although I dislike Smith's play, I wouldn't mind seeing if him being put on a line with Kronner cud help make a difference. Crazier things have happened in this sport. This should be the least of things to argue about on this roster.. especially with the slim pickins the Red Wings have.

The overall D line is just awful in general. DK and Q are decent.

Edited by kickazz

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I sure hope that Babcock doesn't make roster decisions based on the notion that "crazier things have happened".

You don't take a guy who consistently struggles with minimal responsibility (Smith), and give him a ton more responsibility, and expect that to work. It's the exact opposite of accountability. It doesn't work...anywhere.

I'd be all for moving Dekeyser up and dropping Ericsson down. Why? Because Dekeyser has shown that he can handle his current level of responsibility and thrive. So you can probably give him a little more.

But I'm never going to be in favor of giving more ice time, against better opposition, to a player who can't hold on to a roster spot with less ice time, and against worse players.

Sure, crazier things have happened. But so have MUCH, MUCH, MUCH smarter things too.

Edited by kipwinger

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Kronwall himself isn't a top pair d-man imo, and to putting others on his line shouldn't be considered blasphemy. The Red Wings don't truly have a legitimate top pairing. Although I dislike Smith's play, I wouldn't mind seeing if him being put on a line with Kronner cud help make a difference. Crazier things have happened in this sport. This should be the least of things to argue about on this roster.. especially with the slim pickins the Red Wings have.

The overall D line is just awful in general. DK and Q are decent.

Kronwall's playoff numbers are pitiful since he took over Lidstrom's role on the team. Just awful. One goal and four points in over 20 games. Anyone who says he's a #1 should explain those stats to me.

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I sure hope that Babcock doesn't make roster decisions based on the notion that "crazier things have happened".

You don't take a guy who consistently struggles with minimal responsibility (Smith), and give him a ton more responsibility, and expect that to work. It's the exact opposite of accountability. It doesn't work...anywhere.

I'd be all for moving Dekeyser up and dropping Ericsson down. Why? Because Dekeyser has shown that he can handle his current level of responsibility and thrive. So you can probably give him a little more.

But I'm never going to be in favor of giving more ice time, against better opposition, to a player who can't hold on to a roster spot with less ice time, and against worse players.

Sure, crazier things have happened. But so have MUCH, MUCH, MUCH smarter things too.

I respect you sir and your opinions, but in my belief, there are a couple of things that stand out here. No one is saying that Smith is a top pairing D man. In fact, Kronner probably is a number 2 on a good D. But, Smith and Kronwall have played well together in the past, and right now this is all about putting the best possible D pairings together.

Thus, Q and DK have been our best pair all season, so in no way would you promote DK to play with Kronner at this stage. If you have a pair that plays well together, it'd be a good idea to keep them that way. That would give us 2 pairs that 'play well together', and then Zidlicky with Ericsson would give a solid 3rd pairing of 2 veterans, one defensively minded, and one offensively minded. I'd say that's a better balance. Will it happen? I doubt it.

And accountability - its the entire reason Smith was scratched for the last 3 games. Batting that puck on the bench was stupid, so Babs scratched him as a result. Now that he's kept his head down and worked hard in practice, he's back in. I guarantee he'll be fired up and ready to play.

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