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At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

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Holland will never be fired. He is getting closer to retiring however. Does that mean 1 year? 2? 3? We don't know.

As to the bigger point, yes Holland deserves all the credit good/bad for the team. He is the GM and has been for a long time. he can't blame anyone else due to the length of his tenure. He does a lot of good things and some really dumb things. True of most GM's. He has chosen the middle ground of patch and plug to try and keep the playoff streak alive. Some agree with it some do not. That is where I am critical of him. Making the PO's shouldn't be the goal. Winning SC's should be. The lower bar has made him too careful and risk adverse.

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That look isn't from a meat injection, it's from many, many botox injections.

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Holland will never be fired. He is getting closer to retiring however. Does that mean 1 year? 2? 3? We don't know.

As to the bigger point, yes Holland deserves all the credit good/bad for the team. He is the GM and has been for a long time. he can't blame anyone else due to the length of his tenure. He does a lot of good things and some really dumb things. True of most GM's. He has chosen the middle ground of patch and plug to try and keep the playoff streak alive. Some agree with it some do not. That is where I am critical of him. Making the PO's shouldn't be the goal. Winning SC's should be. The lower bar has made him too careful and risk adverse.

You realize he has bosses who might be telling him make sure you make the playoffs, right?

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You realize he has bosses who might be telling him make sure you make the playoffs, right?

The right hand doesn't talk to the left hand. Ilitch appears to be more interested in the Tigers.

As long as the Wings are selling out every game (whether the corporate seats are empty or not), his sons are satisfied with us making a profit and losing in the playoffs early. Holland has immunity and will step down when he wants to step down.

It does hurt that Yzerman is on the cusp of making two Conference Finals since he left Detroit, while we haven't been to even one. Yet there's still people on LGW who think Yzerman hasn't been all that impressive as GM.

This organization has problems letting go of old timers and letting the new blood move forward. Whether it's Holland over Yzerman, Babcock over Blashill, or Cleary, Sammy and Bert over Jurco, Tatar and Nyquist. We seem afraid of change. Everything has to overripe. Yzerman didn't want to overripe. Blashill is overripe right now, so maybe it's time to move him up before he decides to go elsewhere.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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You realize he has bosses who might be telling him make sure you make the playoffs, right?

So? Every owner tells his GM to win. No surprise here. But is being in the top 53% good enough? I wonder if back 40 years ago Mr I decided I just want to have the 20th biggest pizza chain in the world. or did he decide to be the biggest? Hmmm i wonder which it was...... On top of that, do you honestly believe there is anything Holland could do right now to get fired? Nope. he is a lifer. If he decided to rebuild, he would still be here as the GM.

The right hand doesn't talk to the left hand. Ilitch appears to be more interested in the Tigers.

As long as the Wings are selling out every game (whether the corporate seats are empty or not), his sons are satisfied with us making a profit and losing in the playoffs early. Holland has immunity and will step down when he wants to step down.

It does hurt that Yzerman is on the cusp of making two Conference Finals since he left Detroit, while we haven't been to even one. Yet there's still people on LGW who think Yzerman hasn't been all that impressive as GM.

This organization has problems letting go of old timers and letting the new blood move forward. Whether it's Holland over Yzerman, Babcock over Blashill, or Cleary, Sammy and Bert over Jurco, Tatar and Nyquist. We seem afraid of change. Everything has to overripe. Yzerman didn't want to overripe. Blashill is overripe right now, so maybe it's time to move him up before he decides to go elsewhere.

With all do respect, Mr. I doesn't do much anymore due to his age and health. The GM's are also both club presidents, they are fully in charge of each team.

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The right hand doesn't talk to the left hand. Ilitch appears to be more interested in the Tigers.

As long as the Wings are selling out every game (whether the corporate seats are empty or not), his sons are satisfied with us making a profit and losing in the playoffs early. Holland has immunity and will step down when he wants to step down.

It does hurt that Yzerman is on the cusp of making two Conference Finals since he left Detroit, while we haven't been to even one. Yet there's still people on LGW who think Yzerman hasn't been all that impressive as GM.

This organization has problems letting go of old timers and letting the new blood move forward. Whether it's Holland over Yzerman, Babcock over Blashill, or Cleary, Sammy and Bert over Jurco, Tatar and Nyquist. We seem afraid of change. Everything has to overripe. Yzerman didn't want to overripe. Blashill is overripe right now, so maybe it's time to move him up before he decides to go elsewhere.

Really? I don't think people are critical of Yzerman at all. The only real criticisms if you can even call them that, are that when people appoint him as "a great GM" people say "he hasn't done anything yet".

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So? Every owner tells his GM to win. No surprise here. But is being in the top 53% good enough? I wonder if back 40 years ago Mr I decided I just want to have the 20th biggest pizza chain in the world. or did he decide to be the biggest? Hmmm i wonder which it was...... On top of that, do you honestly believe there is anything Holland could do right now to get fired? Nope. he is a lifer. If he decided to rebuild, he would still be here as the GM.

With all do respect, Mr. I doesn't do much anymore due to his age and health. The GM's are also both club presidents, they are fully in charge of each team.

Mr. I didn't tank his pizza chain until Gordon Ramsay came to fix it for him. He kept chugging at 53% until it was one of the biggest. Just like Holland's doing.

Edited by number9

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Mr. I didn't tank his pizza chain until Gordon Ramsay came to fix it for him. He kept chugging at 53% until it was one of the biggest. Just like Holland's doing.

Analogies are tricky. They don't always make as much sense as you think they ought to.

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So? Every owner tells his GM to win. No surprise here. But is being in the top 53% good enough? I wonder if back 40 years ago Mr I decided I just want to have the 20th biggest pizza chain in the world. or did he decide to be the biggest? Hmmm i wonder which it was...... On top of that, do you honestly believe there is anything Holland could do right now to get fired? Nope. he is a lifer. If he decided to rebuild, he would still be here as the GM....

We are rebuilding. Half the team is 26 or under and wasn't around just a few years ago. We have a bunch more kids in the pipeline.

Most teams when rebuilding are content with missing the playoffs entirely. Doesn't mean they will always be content with that. What in the world would make you people believe that being satisfied with just making the playoffs now means the organization will never aspire to anything more?

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We are rebuilding. Half the team is 26 or under and wasn't around just a few years ago. We have a bunch more kids in the pipeline.

Most teams when rebuilding are content with missing the playoffs entirely. Doesn't mean they will always be content with that. What in the world would make you people believe that being satisfied with just making the playoffs now means the organization will never aspire to anything more?

At some point you have to stop rebuilding and win. The Oulers have been doing it for what? A decade now? Are they any closer? No. We have been rebuilding for 6 years. Are we any closer? No. We are not close to being a SC team. Yes I understand that the Oilers fans would love to be us right now. But I don't care. I don't want to share the SC with anyone. I want to win it every year. I want the RW's to catch the Habs and pass them for most SC's in history. maybe i am just greedy that way. Every year there is 1 SC Champion and 29 losers.

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At some point you have to stop rebuilding and win. The Oulers have been doing it for what? A decade now? Are they any closer? No. We have been rebuilding for 6 years. Are we any closer? No. We are not close to being a SC team. Yes I understand that the Oilers fans would love to be us right now. But I don't care. I don't want to share the SC with anyone. I want to win it every year. I want the RW's to catch the Habs and pass them for most SC's in history. maybe i am just greedy that way. Every year there is 1 SC Champion and 29 losers.

6 years???? I would say the re-build started in 2013, you could even argue 2014. What about 2009 was a re-build?

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At some point you have to stop rebuilding and win. The Oulers have been doing it for what? A decade now? Are they any closer? No. We have been rebuilding for 6 years. Are we any closer? No. We are not close to being a SC team. Yes I understand that the Oilers fans would love to be us right now. But I don't care. I don't want to share the SC with anyone. I want to win it every year. I want the RW's to catch the Habs and pass them for most SC's in history. maybe i am just greedy that way. Every year there is 1 SC Champion and 29 losers.

3 years, maybe you could say 4 if you want to stretch a bit. Some might even say 2. Some might even say it's just prep work for the real rebuild that won't truly start until Pav and Hank are gone. We were still one of the best teams in the league in 09-10 and 10-11. Only slipped a little in 11-12.

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3 years, maybe you could say 4 if you want to stretch a bit. Some might even say 2. Some might even say it's just prep work for the real rebuild that won't truly start until Pav and Hank are gone. We were still one of the best teams in the league in 09-10 and 10-11. Only slipped a little in 11-12.

It's at most 4 bud. IMO it's been since Lids left.

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3 years, maybe you could say 4 if you want to stretch a bit. Some might even say 2. Some might even say it's just prep work for the real rebuild that won't truly start until Pav and Hank are gone. We were still one of the best teams in the league in 09-10 and 10-11. Only slipped a little in 11-12.

That's a scary thought, but that's likely the correct answer.

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3 years, maybe you could say 4 if you want to stretch a bit. Some might even say 2. Some might even say it's just prep work for the real rebuild that won't truly start until Pav and Hank are gone. We were still one of the best teams in the league in 09-10 and 10-11. Only slipped a little in 11-12.

I don't disagree that we were one of the better regular season teams in both 2010 and 2011. Obviously relative to the majority of the league we were better. But if we're comparing Detroit to the top teams in the league, we were average. We were 5th in the Western Conference in 2009-2010, and 3rd in 2010-2011. In both years we lost in the second round of the playoffs to San Jose. The first year badly, the second year in 7. So compared to the best teams in the league (i.e. playoff teams) we were probably worse than most. Seem like these two years were sort of the opposite of 2007. That year we were starting the ascent to our team's peak, and in 2010 and 2011 we were starting to come down a bit.

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So? Every owner tells his GM to win. No surprise here. But is being in the top 53% good enough? I wonder if back 40 years ago Mr I decided I just want to have the 20th biggest pizza chain in the world. or did he decide to be the biggest? Hmmm i wonder which it was...... On top of that, do you honestly believe there is anything Holland could do right now to get fired? Nope. he is a lifer. If he decided to rebuild, he would still be here as the GM.

With all do respect, Mr. I doesn't do much anymore due to his age and health. The GM's are also both club presidents, they are fully in charge of each team.

Since the (stupid) salary cap, no team but the Wings has made the playoffs every season. Now add like another 15 years to that streak.

So, yes, it's remarkable being in the top 53% for 24 years straight.

I'm not saying making the playoffs is enough. The Wings should strive for more and we fans certainly want more. But this 53% argument is misleading mantra repeated by those who are trying to downplay the genuine and unquestionable significance of the streak.

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