At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

[CrimsonFlame 424]

What specific moves would you have rather seen Holland make?

What could/should Holland have done to lure hi-end UFA's to Detroit?

Again - he's not perfect, but lets take a step back from all of this, and look at the big picture...The Wings are still 1 of the 'better' teams in the league, and unlike LA, Boston, Pitt - we made the playoffs, and we don 't need to clean house.

Those teams also have had far more post season success in the last 6 years than we have. So that doesn't help the case

[frankgrimes 1,836]

The thing is at some point you need to use picks, young players as assets to get some much needed help on the d. Dannyd was a great signing and h e has the potential to become something great maybe even a number one guy.. But the fact is this: Z, Pasha and Kronwall need to be replaced soon and with ufa s not dying to come here, traded are the only option...unless of course tanking for top picks. Patchworks on their last legs aren't going to help. Is Phaneuf elite ? No but he is a damn good top 4 option that wouldn't cost the farm. Pulkinnen, Jurco, 2nd would be my offer.

Whether that's good enough or not needs to be seen. As far as the center position goes , I'm really concerned because the pressure and expectations put on Larkin are extreme...personally I would be happy if he woulduld become a solid top 6 expecting him to replace Zetterberg or Pasha is just unrealistic I'd you ask me. I just hope that the front office is better prepared this time then they were for the post Rafalski, Homer and Lids era because if not the era won't be pretty.

Holland has to take some risks I'm not talking about Seguin like debacle risks but some solid help around 28 years. Hockey is a team game so he has to share some blame too. If making the playoffs and losing in round 1 is good enough for some then sure he has done a good job but personally I believe Mr. I would love to open the new arena with a promising young team not one with a questionable future on key positions.

Edited April 30, 2015 by frankgrimes

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

Holland has fallen in love with the young guns and I think, to his detriment, the *new* NHL and the way deals get done and big name players move kind of paralyzes him. He's afraid to pull the lever on a big deal.. If he goes big and it doesn't work he gets rightly critisized. If he does nothing and just points to GR then life is easier.

[gcom007 1,465]

Holland has fallen in love with the young guns and I think, to his detriment, the *new* NHL and the way deals get done and big name players move kind of paralyzes him. He's afraid to pull the lever on a big deal.. If he goes big and it doesn't work he gets rightly critisized. If he does nothing and just points to GR then life is easier.

He's trie to make the big deals every off season though. It's not that he's afraid, he just hasn't been successful. I for one wish he'd stop putting all his eggs in one basket seemingly and targeting the more mid-level "above-average" talent first and forget about trying to land an elite player. That hasn't worked for us for five years now. He should focus on solidifying the core.

[kipwinger 8,522]

I'm not sure why the measuring stick for Holland's success is free agents or trades. He's shown that in the past he's not afraid to go out and get higher end free agents, or make trades. But if he can get what he wants internally, why would he trade for it?

In the last two years he's added two 25+ goal scorers, a 40 pt. third line center (who's also really big), a back up (and now starting) goalie, a top four defenseman, and a load of depth players. All of that was already in his system and ready to go...for free. Why should he have gone out and traded for any of that?

He did what every smart GM would do. See what he had in his organization, integrate those players that were ready, reassess, and augment (Cole and Zidlicky) as needed.

I suspect that had the Wings organization not been overflowing with talent, that he'd have been a little more aggressive. It's not to say that he's never made a mistake, or that he couldn't have done a little more. But we weren't in a position like Minnesota where we needed a bunch of pieces and didn't have anything in the cupboard. They had to go out and buy/trade for Pominville, Parise, Vanek, Suter, Neiderreiter, etc. We didn't. We already had comparable guys in the organization.

Edited April 30, 2015 by kipwinger

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm not sure why the measuring stick for Holland's success is free agents or trades. He's shown that in the past he's not afraid to go out and get higher end free agents, or make trades. But if he can get what he wants internally, why would he trade for it?

In the last two years he's added two 25+ goal scorers, a 40 pt. third line center (who's also really big), a back up (and now starting) goalie, a top four defenseman, and a load of depth players. All of that was already in his system and ready to go...for free. Why should he have gone out and traded for any of that?

He did what every smart GM would do. See what he had in his organization, integrate those players that were ready, reassess, and augment (Cole and Zidlicky) as needed.

I suspect that had the Wings organization not been overflowing with talent, that he'd have been a little more aggressive. It's not to say that he's never made a mistake, or that he couldn't have done a little more. But we weren't in a position like Minnesota where we needed a bunch of pieces and didn't have anything in the cupboard. They had to go out and buy/trade for Pominville, Parise, Vanek, Suter, Neiderreiter, etc. We didn't. We already had comparable guys in the organization.

Again, are you just ignoring the fact that Holland has gone out chasing every big name hard for years now? Did you forget that he had monster deals on the table for Parise and Suter as well? I don't get how people can just go with that "it was the smart thing to do" when he clearly, blatantly has tried to do something different every year now. He just hasn't landed the guys that he was chasing and then had to plug holes with FA scrubs and youth.

And don't get me wrong, youth is good and our drafting is great relative to the picks we get, but we are not a complete team. We struggle and fight and will ourselves to more success than we likely deserve if you're just going by what's on paper.

The bar is not just free agency and trades, but it's a huge part of the game still. You can't just draft all the players you need, especially when you don't get high picks like we do. You have to be able to augment the team via trade and free agency as well. Holland has not done a good job of that lately, plain and simple. Like I've said for a long time, he gets so caught up chasing the big names that he's missed other opportunities to improve the middle of this team, and he ends up with scraps in free agency.

And it's ludicrous to ignore how much money we've spent in the last few years on guys that don't play. Odd circumstances aside, we've been paying a lot of guys way too much money to practice or play in Grand Rapids. That is just plain stupid, and again, in many cases, the result of not being more pragmatic right when the deadline hits.

Edited April 30, 2015 by gcom007

[Holmstrom96 347]

At what point does Holland get blamed for taking us to the playoffs every year?

Looks folks, there are 30 NHL team. That means you've got a one in 30 chance of winning the cup every year. We've won four times in the last 17 years, Holland started being GM in 97. Even if we only give him credit for 2002 and 2008, that's two cups.

We're in the race every year. Not every team is going to take us to the finals.

[wings7 62]

What specific moves would you have rather seen Holland make?

What could/should Holland have done to lure hi-end UFA's to Detroit?

Again - he's not perfect, but lets take a step back from all of this, and look at the big picture...The Wings are still 1 of the 'better' teams in the league, and unlike LA, Boston, Pitt - we made the playoffs, and we don 't need to clean house.

Well one Pittsburgh made the playoffs.

And two, be honest with yourself. Who is closer to winning the next Cup? LA, BOS or DET? I think they will both win again before us. Also, they've been better than us since '08.

We've lost in the first round 3 of the last 4 years.

Who do you blame for that then? No one? Do you not care? Are you okay with the results of this team?

At what point does Holland get blamed for taking us to the playoffs every year?

Looks folks, there are 30 NHL team. That means you've got a one in 30 chance of winning the cup every year. We've won four times in the last 17 years, Holland started being GM in 97. Even if we only give him credit for 2002 and 2008, that's two cups.

We're in the race every year. Not every team is going to take us to the finals.

I don't think you can count 1997, 1998, or 2002. There was no salary cap.

Let's be objective about this.

Since the Cap he has one Cup. And a lot of early playoff exits. That's the truth. And most of the early exits are the most recent ones. We aren't heading in the right direction as far as I can tell.

And also, why is making the playoffs the gold standard in Hockeytown now? When did that happen?

I'm not sure why the measuring stick for Holland's success is free agents or trades. He's shown that in the past he's not afraid to go out and get higher end free agents, or make trades. But if he can get what he wants internally, why would he trade for it?

In the last two years he's added two 25+ goal scorers, a 40 pt. third line center (who's also really big), a back up (and now starting) goalie, a top four defenseman, and a load of depth players. All of that was already in his system and ready to go...for free. Why should he have gone out and traded for any of that?

He did what every smart GM would do. See what he had in his organization, integrate those players that were ready, reassess, and augment (Cole and Zidlicky) as needed.

I suspect that had the Wings organization not been overflowing with talent, that he'd have been a little more aggressive. It's not to say that he's never made a mistake, or that he couldn't have done a little more. But we weren't in a position like Minnesota where we needed a bunch of pieces and didn't have anything in the cupboard. They had to go out and buy/trade for Pominville, Parise, Vanek, Suter, Neiderreiter, etc. We didn't. We already had comparable guys in the organization.

Who is our Parise?

[frankgrimes 1,836]

At what point does Holland get blamed for taking us to the playoffs every year?

Looks folks, there are 30 NHL team. That means you've got a one in 30 chance of winning the cup every year. We've won four times in the last 17 years, Holland started being GM in 97. Even if we only give him credit for 2002 and 2008, that's two cups.

We're in the race every year. Not every team is going to take us to the finals.

The Wings are an original 6 team and an unbelievable success story , period. Like I said if making the playoffs and losing in the first round is good enough for some people yeah, then Holland is doing a good job without tanking. But if we are talking about RED WINGS style I don't think first or second round exits are Red Wings style if I'm alone with that opinion so be it.

Babcock basically has said it himself without really saying it, the team Holland has given him isn't good enough, period. It's nice that help is on the way but people also forget something very important: Z, Pasha and Kronner are all on the wrong side of 30 by the time some young kids are ready all 3 will be gone or well above their prime (Z has already lost two steps ( ) and expecting the young players to fill in these shoes would be unfair and heavily unrealistic.

Look at Lombardi the guy doesn't care if his team has won the cup 2 years ago, if he sees a need he is fixing it ! Is it risky ? Sure but it's not like he's trading the farm and if he trades picks they are always under some sort of condition. I think the problem with Holland is simple, he has fallen in love with the idea of solely building from within plus he seems to think the Wings are still the destination they once were sadly, that's not the case anymore. So if he goes after UFAs he will have to bite the bullet and pay more than other teams...i.e give Ehrhoff that stupid +1 year ...good god we have the best owner in all of sports if his decline is too big send him to the AHL and free up capspace..

The Captain has rebuilt the Lightning in 4 freaking years, the Wings haven't been able to fix the defense can some of the Holland does everything right people imagine would have happened without Dekeyser ? uooo that's right.

Yeah the team has done better than I've expected them to do so kudos to them but if 3 first round exits in 4 years aren't enough warning signals then I really don't know what is. But hey some of the "It's time to move on from Babcock" people will now get their wish and maybe see for themselves that the team just isn't good enough.

Nyquist, Tatar are already solid top 6 forwards and they'll get better in the playoffs with experience as will Dekeyser but these 3 alone aren't enough.

Wings also need a change in philsophy enough of drafting small, undersized euros and add more guys like Mantha.

Edited April 30, 2015 by frankgrimes

[wings7 62]

So - by removing the front office, and firing the coaching staff will see a better Wings?

I'm not so sure that's the case.

Many of those teams got to the Cup courtesy of sucking so bad that they got top notch draft picks...Should the Wings tank for the next 4 to 6 years to ensure their chances of getting better draft picks?

Holland is partaking in every coveted UFA auction - just that these guys aren't coming here - is that Holland's fault - maybe Babcock's - I dunno ?

If anything I find Babs a bit too rigid at times, and maybe it's time he chooses to go elsewhere...Not sure who'll wind up behind the bench in Detroit, but whoever it is has some big shoes to fill.

Personally - I wouldn't mind seeing Todd McLellan returning to Detroit.

Completely agree on Todd McLellan. Bring Blashill up as an assistant. Continue to groom him.

I guess I think of Holland as the main person to bring in talent. When he isn't. I blame him. That's how black and white I look at it though.

This is probably one of his biggest off seasons. He needs to better prepare for Pasha and Z's departures. He really didn't with Lids or Rafalski. Years prior to their retirements, he could've been planning. Granted Kronwall and E never materialized into absolute greats, but again, isn't it his job to foresee some of that stuff? I don't know, maybe I just don't understand his role.

The same way I blame the Lions for years of not getting the right players, I blame other teams.

If he goes out and gets value for Howard, that would be a step in the right direction.

I don't think you can have 6 million tied up in two #1 starting goalies.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

So - by removing the front office, and firing the coaching staff will see a better Wings?

I'm not so sure that's the case.

Many of those teams got to the Cup courtesy of sucking so bad that they got top notch draft picks...Should the Wings tank for the next 4 to 6 years to ensure their chances of getting better draft picks?

Holland is partaking in every coveted UFA auction - just that these guys aren't coming here - is that Holland's fault - maybe Babcock's - I dunno ?

If anything I find Babs a bit too rigid at times, and maybe it's time he chooses to go elsewhere...Not sure who'll wind up behind the bench in Detroit, but whoever it is has some big shoes to fill.

Personally - I wouldn't mind seeing Todd McLellan returning to Detroit.

"I don't know why they're not coming here" - Ken Holland

[Liquidsnake 12]

Completely agree on Todd McLellan. Bring Blashill up as an assistant. Continue to groom him.

I guess I think of Holland as the main person to bring in talent. When he isn't. I blame him. That's how black and white I look at it though.

This is probably one of his biggest off seasons. He needs to better prepare for Pasha and Z's departures. He really didn't with Lids or Rafalski. Years prior to their retirements, he could've been planning. Granted Kronwall and E never materialized into absolute greats, but again, isn't it his job to foresee some of that stuff? I don't know, maybe I just don't understand his role.

The same way I blame the Lions for years of not getting the right players, I blame other teams.

If he goes out and gets value for Howard, that would be a step in the right direction.

I don't think you can have 6 million tied up in two #1 starting goalies.

Agreed on both accounts. This off-season is a big one. Too many first round exits lately.

We have to explore the option of dealing Howard, he's the most marketable asset we've had for years. If we can get a good deal, let's pull the trigger. I say look at Edmonton, they have too many young forwards, and nothing on the back end. Chiarelli's not afraid of dealing young talent, and said has much in a recent interview.

[dragonballgtz 273]

I think Holland deserves some blame.

As others have mentioned failing to re-tool the defense is a big issue the Wings are facing. Big E never belonged in the top pairing, Kindl hasn't worked out,

One that keeps coming back to haunt us is the center position. Flip didn't work out and his replacement was a player that sat out most of the previous year with a bad injury heading into his 30s. Some might say the injury isn't Holland's fault, but he should have a good idea of how injured a guy is before signing them to a multiyear deal for such an important position. As #1 center position goes now it seems like all hope is in Larkin taking that spot.

A big issue I have with Holland is always going after aging veterans come the trade deadline. I think those moves are fine when there are not other big glaring holes that need to be filled. Save the picks and prospects you use acquiring aging players for players we can use for years to come. Sure those moves might have helped us get into the playoffs, but barley making it into the playoffs seems to be a dangerous game.

It's like we are in the same position Calgary was in years ago. Might be good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to go on that lengthy run. Instead of missing the playoffs to get a better first round pick, they wasted draft picks trying to maintain their playoff position. Being a bubble team for so long is a bad position to be at.

Edited April 30, 2015 by dragonballgtz

[number9 3,297]

And two of them he knew about and should be planning for. He may have even known about Raf.

To be clear I think he's recovered well and it's impressive the team is still rolling along. But he seemed ill prepared for what was obviously going to be the biggest transition the team faced under his tenure. Uncharacteristic is the word that keeps coming to mind because he's usually three moves ahead of everyone else.

When Yzerman left he was a third liner and we had Datsyuk and Zetterberg, whereas Lidstrom was still our #1 d-man. Holland seemed surprisingly unprepared for what should have been something the franchise was planning for years in advance.

It's certainly easier written than done. Holland has an incredibly hard job, but has done it very well for so long. As I said above, I was just surprised how unprepared he seemed for something that was inevitable. Lidstrom's retirement was second only to the implementation of the salary cap in terms of its impact on the team.

I'm glad he drafted those players but it kind of supports my case. That's way too late to expect those guys to contribute to the lineup in Lidstrom's absence, especially with defensemen. It's almost like Holland was in as much denial as the rest of us that Lids would ever retire.

What kind of plan did u expect him to have exactly? 3 trades already lined up? Draft better then he already has? Pay Suter 10 mil for ten years?

IMO the team did pretty well considering we lost the the entire top half of our defense lol

[rick zombo 3,739]

That's a hard question to answer.

Is it due to the impression the city of Detroit gives to outsiders? Has the novelty of being a Red Wing worn off? Is playing for Babcock a pain in the ass? By signing some players in the past, and then not getting ice time starting to bite the Wings in the ass?

I'm thinking the answer is 'yes' to all of the above.

I think that the league and it's players still view the Wings as a top organization.

A new rink and a new coach will help as well.

[Guest Playmaker]

The losing out on free agents bit is getting old. The number of viable free agents is limited and the prices are usually way too high. Fans just want to throw out money at anyone, thinking they're better than what the Wings have. If the Wings were losing out to trendy cities and organizations who win more, that could be used as an argument, but that isn't exactly the case. Free agents now take other things into consideration, like family, team mates, friends, etc. As you saw in Boston, when you're not mindful of the salary cap, it's easy to get burned. It's a balancing act. I think Holland has done and admirable job transitioning this team from a blank check team to a team that has been successful in the salary cap era.

[kipwinger 8,522]

Again, are you just ignoring the fact that Holland has gone out chasing every big name hard for years now? Did you forget that he had monster deals on the table for Parise and Suter as well? I don't get how people can just go with that "it was the smart thing to do" when he clearly, blatantly has tried to do something different every year now. He just hasn't landed the guys that he was chasing and then had to plug holes with FA scrubs and youth.

And don't get me wrong, youth is good and our drafting is great relative to the picks we get, but we are not a complete team. We struggle and fight and will ourselves to more success than we likely deserve if you're just going by what's on paper.

The bar is not just free agency and trades, but it's a huge part of the game still. You can't just draft all the players you need, especially when you don't get high picks like we do. You have to be able to augment the team via trade and free agency as well. Holland has not done a good job of that lately, plain and simple. Like I've said for a long time, he gets so caught up chasing the big names that he's missed other opportunities to improve the middle of this team, and he ends up with scraps in free agency.

And it's ludicrous to ignore how much money we've spent in the last few years on guys that don't play. Odd circumstances aside, we've been paying a lot of guys way too much money to practice or play in Grand Rapids. That is just plain stupid, and again, in many cases, the result of not being more pragmatic right when the deadline hits.

Guys like Parise and Suter are significantly better than anything that we had coming up. Those 2nd and 3rd tier free agents are marginally better than what we had coming up (or in some cases not better at all). All free agents aren't made alike. I don't mind Holland trying to land REALLY good ones. I also don't mind Holland being conservative and not overspending on the SORTA good ones.

It seems like people just want free agents for the sake of it. I don't. I'm happier with Nyquist or Tatar than I would be with Pominville or Vanek. Apparently, so is Holland.

I also agree that some of his acquisitions have blown up in his face. Weiss, Cole, Zidlicky, Tootoo, Sammy, etc. Which should indicate the inherent risk associated with free agency/trades. I'm glad that we've got someone who's cautious when it comes to these sorts of moves, because they don't work far more than they do.

It almost seems like people around here think that if Holland made MORE moves, that there would be LESS risk. Which is silly. Very few signings/trades are slam dunks, and when they are (Suter, Parise) you've got a lot of competition.

Edited April 30, 2015 by kipwinger

[romagoth 47]

New to this board but been following it for awhile now.

I just can't understand the amount of hyperbole from some people regarding Holland. We are in an age of absolute parity in the NHL, this isn't the 50's and 60's when Montreal won 5 straight Cups. Making the playoffs is the goal now, because as we have seen anything can happen once the playoffs start (just look at the Kings last year). The days of winning the president's trophy and rolling through the playoffs year after year are over. Holland has made mistakes but he has still done a remarkable job with what he has been given.

So what, if we made the playoffs for 24 consecutive seasons (you don't get a trophy for it). Its not about making it to the playoffs, it's what you do in the playoffs that matters.

Go ahead and tell that to the 22 teams that didn't make the playoffs this year. I am thankful for our playoff streak, it gives me more Wings hockey into the spring/early summer while other fans are watching....baseball.

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

New to this board but been following it for awhile now.

I just can't understand the amount of hyperbole from some people regarding Holland. We are in an age of absolute parity in the NHL, this isn't the 50's and 60's when Montreal won 5 straight Cups. Making the playoffs is the goal now, because as we have seen anything can happen once the playoffs start (just look at the Kings last year). The days of winning the president's trophy and rolling through the playoffs year after year are over. Holland has made mistakes but he has still done a remarkable job with what he has been given.

Go ahead and tell that to the 22 teams that didn't make the playoffs this year. I am thankful for our playoff streak, it gives me more Wings hockey into the spring/early summer while other fans are watching....baseball.

Welcome! Join the pity party...

[Nightfall 871]

The past was a long time ago. Let it go.

Wow, so our cup back in 08 and cup finals appearance in 09 was a "long time ago"? Man, I wonder how Toronto feels with their last cup win. Or Edmonton for that matter. Heck, lets ask the Rangers how they feel since their last cup.

This really does show the level of entitlement that Wings fans have grown accustomed to over the course of the last 25 years. Most teams have bandwagon fans. The Wings have achieved a level of greatness where the bandwagon effect hasn't been measured because we have been good for so freaking long.

Now we are looking at Holland deserving blame for making the playoffs and not getting past the 2nd round since making it to the finals in 09. When I see this attitude, I just shake my head in disbelief. Is this really what some Wings fans have deteriorated to? The salary cap era has made the playing field level. No team is a slam dunk for a championship anymore.

I will say this much. Any new GM that comes in may have successes in some areas, but failures in others. No GM is going to hit it out of the park on everything they do. So while a new GM may have landed Parise and Suter for Detroit, he may have not gotten Dekeyser and wouldn't have gotten Hossa either because he wouldn't have had the money to get them all.

I get it, Wings fans want a championship. Its championship or bust mentality that really has to change though. Only 1 team gets to win the Stanley Cup every year, and the favorite doesn't win it much of the time. The sooner that we all realize that the Wings are just one of 16 teams in the playoffs and things have to go right for the team that wins it, the better off we will be.

[Nightfall 871]

New to this board but been following it for awhile now.

I just can't understand the amount of hyperbole from some people regarding Holland. We are in an age of absolute parity in the NHL, this isn't the 50's and 60's when Montreal won 5 straight Cups. Making the playoffs is the goal now, because as we have seen anything can happen once the playoffs start (just look at the Kings last year). The days of winning the president's trophy and rolling through the playoffs year after year are over. Holland has made mistakes but he has still done a remarkable job with what he has been given.

Go ahead and tell that to the 22 teams that didn't make the playoffs this year. I am thankful for our playoff streak, it gives me more Wings hockey into the spring/early summer while other fans are watching....baseball.

Great post! I agree 100%

[Mckinley25 677]

Go ahead and tell that to the 22 teams that didn't make the playoffs this year. I am thankful for our playoff streak, it gives me more Wings hockey into the spring/early summer while other fans are watching....baseball.

I think it's more like 14 teams, but I agree with your point.

[Guest Playmaker]

New to this board but been following it for awhile now.

I just can't understand the amount of hyperbole from some people regarding Holland. We are in an age of absolute parity in the NHL, this isn't the 50's and 60's when Montreal won 5 straight Cups. Making the playoffs is the goal now, because as we have seen anything can happen once the playoffs start (just look at the Kings last year). The days of winning the president's trophy and rolling through the playoffs year after year are over. Holland has made mistakes but he has still done a remarkable job with what he has been given.

Go ahead and tell that to the 22 teams that didn't make the playoffs this year. I am thankful for our playoff streak, it gives me more Wings hockey into the spring/early summer while other fans are watching....baseball.

Great post, but small math correction. 30 NHL teams, 16 make playoffs which would make uh, 14 that didn't make it. But that's okay, Michigan State Alumni are welcome here, too (I kid, I kid!)

[romagoth 47]

I think it's more like 14 teams, but I agree with your point.

Great post, but small math correction. 30 NHL teams, 16 make playoffs which would make uh, 14 that didn't make it. But that's okay, Michigan State Alumni are welcome here, too (I kid, I kid!)

Do'h...yeah I was thinking 8 teams per conference. Forgot the other part of that by adding both conferences. (I hate Michigan State)

Edited April 30, 2015 by romagoth

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Wow, so our cup back in 08 and cup finals appearance in 09 was a "long time ago"? Man, I wonder how Toronto feels with their last cup win. Or Edmonton for that matter. Heck, lets ask the Rangers how they feel since their last cup.

This really does show the level of entitlement that Wings fans have grown accustomed to over the course of the last 25 years. Most teams have bandwagon fans. The Wings have achieved a level of greatness where the bandwagon effect hasn't been measured because we have been good for so freaking long.

Now we are looking at Holland deserving blame for making the playoffs and not getting past the 2nd round since making it to the finals in 09. When I see this attitude, I just shake my head in disbelief. Is this really what some Wings fans have deteriorated to? The salary cap era has made the playing field level. No team is a slam dunk for a championship anymore.

I will say this much. Any new GM that comes in may have successes in some areas, but failures in others. No GM is going to hit it out of the park on everything they do. So while a new GM may have landed Parise and Suter for Detroit, he may have not gotten Dekeyser and wouldn't have gotten Hossa either because he wouldn't have had the money to get them all.

I get it, Wings fans want a championship. Its championship or bust mentality that really has to change though. Only 1 team gets to win the Stanley Cup every year, and the favorite doesn't win it much of the time. The sooner that we all realize that the Wings are just one of 16 teams in the playoffs and things have to go right for the team that wins it, the better off we will be.

You wrote more than you needed to. My whole point is that Holland's previous successes shouldn't give him immunity at his current job. Immunity is dangerous at any job. If I had immunity at my job, I'd have strippers and scotch here every day