romagoth 47 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 Cole is done? I thought he was just out for the season; career's not over. Yeah, Cole is probably done. Not for sure yet, but at his age with that type of injury (especially since it is recurring) it doesn't make much sense for him to risk his health at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
romagoth 47 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 Thornton is one of the best setup guys in the game. He may not be good enough to be "the guy", but he is more then qualified to be a second line center. Plus his cap hit is pretty low for a player of his skill set (6.75 million for another 2 years). Having a guy like him come in would allow D & Z to play together on the first line. What is your issue with Thornton? Yeah, count me out. No thanks to the guy who publically told his GM to "just shut up". Stripped of the captaincy twice in San Jose. Plays like Houdini in the playoffs (disappears). Again, no thanks. 1 gcom007 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 Not to nit-pick, but contending for what exactly? The wild-card? Think we can both agree the blues goaltending has let them down year after year ... They get a top goalie they can compete for a cup Sharks have been a letdown yearly but so were the wings at one point and sharks have a good core of couture pavelski burns vlasic + thornton marleau + good role guys like wingels ... They get a good goalie they can compete .. They should get a good coach there Flyers is the least likely to win but they also haven't had a good goalie since Lindbergh died and they got giroux and voracek and good pieces At the end of the day one team wins a cup every year and we all know how hard it is to do it , but all 3 have a good chance to get in the playoffs and go for it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings4thecup06 504 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 We know one thing ... Howard struggles in the playoffs ... Sorry but that's the case and mrazek is 23 and howard is 30 I'm more for trading howard so mrazek plays as many games as he can , howard won't be a happy boy playing 30-40 games and if that happens his value dimishes and we get a pick Right now we can say before the injury he was an all star and get a roster player or 2 that can actually further improve our team right now A contending team like a saint louis/San Jose/Philadelphia would be intrigued While I agree Howard should be traded eventually, I don;t think the Wings should just hand Mrazek the starting job based on a really good playoff. Howard is still a very good goalie, and his value can improve if he plays well in the regular season up to the trade deadline. Plus, where's the harm in having two really really good goalie's next year up to the deadline, and then trading Howie when his value could be at its highest and the return could be the greatest. Right now it's not, because he's been injured and he struggled. Also, Mrazek will need some tutoring and help getting through his first full NHL season playing 40/50 games. He really hasn't proven yet that he can handle the rigours of it and needs to work out his consistency issues. He's definitely our goalie of the future, but it'd be a bit short sighted to jettison Howard so quickly IMO 2 krsmith17 and derblaueClaus reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 While I agree Howard should be traded eventually, I don;t think the Wings should just hand Mrazek the starting job based on a really good playoff. Howard is still a very good goalie, and his value can improve if he plays well in the regular season up to the trade deadline. Plus, where's the harm in having two really really good goalie's next year up to the deadline, and then trading Howie when his value could be at its highest and the return could be the greatest. Right now it's not, because he's been injured and he struggled. Also, Mrazek will need some tutoring and help getting through his first full NHL season playing 40/50 games. He really hasn't proven yet that he can handle the rigours of it and needs to work out his consistency issues. He's definitely our goalie of the future, but it'd be a bit short sighted to jettison Howard so quickly IMO Just don't think howard has any interest in tutoring a young goalie ... I just think mrazek is so confident I his abilities I don't even think he needs that much tutoring from a backup Fact is I do expect them both to be here I just wish we had a bit of balls and would trade the biggest asset we have that we can afford to trade and s to make our team overall even that much better We lost out on 5-6 years of hank and pav and it's coming to a close and we gotta go for another 2-3 good runs at the cup while we have them before the next crap of potential stars come in (larkin,mantha,athanasiou,holmstrom) Gotta add 2-3 significant pieces Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 Remember back in March when there was "no goalie controversy" 3 wings4thecup06, nyqvististhefuture and derblaueClaus reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 Remember back in March when there was "no goalie controversy" It's funny cause I been pushing for this to happen for quite a while and all of a sudden the kid shows he can play and now we got split fans lol Anyways Hollands to safe so I do expect us to have both and have a nice 3rd round pick at the deadline so his contract could be taken off our hands instead lmao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
romagoth 47 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 I kinda laugh at how fast people want to kick Howie right out of town. I have been a Mrazek fan since he was drafted and he is most definitely the future in goal for the Wings. However, Howie still has something left and I see nothing wrong with he and Petr the Great platooning for at least a year. It can only help both goalies and the organization. See how they both play next season and then determine if Howard should be traded at the deadline or offseason in 2016. Just my $0.02. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 I kinda laugh at how fast people want to kick Howie right out of town. I have been a Mrazek fan since he was drafted and he is most definitely the future in goal for the Wings. However, Howie still has something left and I see nothing wrong with he and Petr the Great platooning for at least a year. It can only help both goalies and the organization. See how they both play next season and then determine if Howard should be traded at the deadline or offseason in 2016. Just my $0.02. I don't really want to see Howard go. I'd love to have him stay, but I don't think he's going to want to at this point, and I'm trying to be realistic about maximizing the return you might get for him. If Howard ends up having decent trade value and we can bring in a decent veteran backup, I think it'd be smart to explore the possibilities. But it might not even be that complicated; I really wouldn't be surprised if Howard simply asked to be dealt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
romagoth 47 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 I don't really want to see Howard go. I'd love to have him stay, but I don't think he's going to want to at this point, and I'm trying to be realistic about maximizing the return you might get for him. If Howard ends up having decent trade value and we can bring in a decent veteran backup, I think it'd be smart to explore the possibilities. But it might not even be that complicated; I really wouldn't be surprised if Howard simply asked to be dealt. If Howie requests a trade then all bets are off, let's get max value for him. Somehow though, I doubt he will do that. Reminids me a lot of Osgood where he was content sticking around and helping tutor the young up-and-comer (although to be fair, Ozzie was at the end of his career and had just won another Cup). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 Howard isn't going anywhere. Goalies have little trade value and there have been too many flash in the pan goalies to just hand Mrazek the job without a good plan B. Good plan a and b is having a capable veteran backup who can play 25-35 games if need be To be honest I can't believe you actually have doubt mrazek is the real deal He's 23 so yes I'd expect some growing pains but him playing as many games as possible is what will help his further development As for goalie values ... Howard was an all star before his injury so I'm sure we can get something ... We keep playing mrazek his value will be worth nothing and well get a draft pick just to get rid of him Howard has to go I doubt every young player until they prove it at least two years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lwing 68 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 Trading Howard would be the kind of gutsy risk taking that has not been part of Detroit since... since forever. Trading Howard would be the kind of gutsy risk taking that has not been part of Detroit since... since forever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roboturner 562 Report post Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) If Howie requests a trade then all bets are off, let's get max value for him. Somehow though, I doubt he will do that. Reminids me a lot of Osgood where he was content sticking around and helping tutor the young up-and-comer (although to be fair, Ozzie was at the end of his career and had just won another Cup). Yeah it's really not the same situation. Howie (should) still have a solid 5-6 years left with a few more after that winding down, whereas Ozzie was already winding down. In regards to the timing of when he gets traded (is there really any doubt left that its going to happen at some point now?), there are pros and cons to whatever ends up happening. If we kept him for another season or two, I think it would be a great luxury to have two good goalies at the same in making a run at the cup. On the other hand, if we could actually get someone that would make an immediate impact (i.e. not a draft pick or similar), it would be worth a shot to make a trade sooner. That entails assessing Mrazek on a smaller sample size, but that's the risk you take. And I really believe that there has to be some kind of risk taken to try and get better, because always taking the safe move can be the wrong move in the end. Edited April 30, 2015 by roboturner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mvanpop 98 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 I think a Ramo-Mrazek combo would be a good idea. Calgary is a similar team and he already did well in a tandem with Hiller Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotTooAbby 71 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/04/red_wings_not_looking_to_move.html Didn't see this posted... This possibly answers a few questions on the Petr/Jimmy debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/04/red_wings_not_looking_to_move.html Didn't see this posted... This possibly answers a few questions on the Petr/Jimmy debate. Nothing surprising Wings are good organization but have no balls Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,473 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 Nothing surprising Wings are good organization but have no balls Ya they should trade Howard. That way if/when mrazek has a sophmore slump McCollum can come in and play... Makes sense to me. Or should they re sign glass groin gustavsson? 2 number9 and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 Nothing surprising Wings are good organization but have no balls Best we could reasonably hope to get for Howard is a 1st-rounder. 2nd (or even a 3rd) or some mid-tier skater that isn't any better than what we already have is far more likely. There's no good reason to trade him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Ya they should trade Howard. That way if/when mrazek has a sophmore slump McCollum can come in and play... Makes sense to me. Or should they re sign glass groin gustavsson?I said a dozen times ... Sign a veteran backup capable of playing 25-35 games Do I expect mrazek to go perfect during the season? Nope but the only way he's gonna perfect his game is playing loads of games Howard is the best asset we have to trade that we could afford to trade and our team wouldn't be crippled and we'd boost our team In other areas I could see it now ... We do nothing and flash forward 2-4yrs from now a lot of people bitching that we wasted hank and pavs last few years Already wasted the last 5 years ... Time to do something ... That being said I expect us to have both and when howard finally gets dealt we will end up with a nice 3rd round pick Best we could reasonably hope to get for Howard is a 1st-rounder. 2nd (or even a 3rd) or some mid-tier skater that isn't any better than what we already have is far more likely. There's no good reason to trade him.Package deal ... Package deal Edited May 1, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 Howard to Buffalo makes sense to me. Sabres have the cap room and he's from upstate NY. Plus they're leaning all young goalies right now (Lindback, Hackett, Makarov). Mike Weber is a very underrated defensive D-man that they have. Other than him I don't see anyone they'd want to give up. Maybe flip us another young goalie? Hackett played for the Plymouth Whalers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 Howard to Buffalo makes sense to me. Sabres have the cap room and he's from upstate NY. Plus they're leaning all young goalies right now (Lindback, Hackett, Makarov). Mike Weber is a very underrated defensive D-man that they have. Other than him I don't see anyone they'd want to give up. Maybe flip us another young goalie? Hackett played for the Plymouth Whalers Gorges? Wouldn't want him ... Buffalo doesnt have much to give us and whatever we'd want they wouldnt part with since they are rebuilding I would add San Jose to the mix , they just have alex stalock right now and possibly the jets since pavelec is a wild card Now that I think of it howard with the jets d and the way the team performed this year ... They'd get in the playoffs again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 I said a dozen times ... Sign a veteran backup capable of playing 25-35 games Do I expect mrazek to go perfect during the season? Nope but the only way he's gonna perfect his game is playing loads of games Howard is the best asset we have to trade that we could afford to trade and our team wouldn't be crippled and we'd boost our team In other areas I could see it now ... We do nothing and flash forward 2-4yrs from now a lot of people bitching that we wasted hank and pavs last few years Already wasted the last 5 years ... Time to do something ... That being said I expect us to have both and when howard finally gets dealt we will end up with a nice 3rd round pick Package deal ... Package deal Howard in a package would get you whatever the same package without Howard would get plus a 2nd. Not going to help. Plus it limits your options only to teams looking for a goalie. Howard is very, very far from our best trade asset. Helm, Abby, Tatar, Nyquist, some of our prospects, picks, maybe Quincy or Ericsson, potentially Datsyuk or Zetterberg even. Hell, Mrazek is young, cheap, and has shown a lot this year. He'd bring a better return than Howard, and probably wouldn't hurt us long-term nearly as much as some might think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 Nothing surprising Wings are good organization but have no balls Best we could reasonably hope to get for Howard is a 1st-rounder. 2nd (or even a 3rd) or some mid-tier skater that isn't any better than what we already have is far more likely. There's no good reason to trade him. Best they could hope for straight up is a 3rd rounder. Goalies don't have much trade value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings7 62 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 Not to nit-pick, but contending for what exactly? The wild-card? We contend for the same thing lately... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted May 1, 2015 Yeah, count me out. No thanks to the guy who publically told his GM to "just shut up". Stripped of the captaincy twice in San Jose. Plays like Houdini in the playoffs (disappears). Again, no thanks. His GM signed him to a home town discount, gave him a no movement clause and then a few months later wanted to trade him and spoke about his lack of leadership publicly. Cant blame Thornton for that one. I wouldnt want Thornton as my team leader, or as "the guy". Can he handle being a 2nd line centre, going up against mostly second pairings....I think so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites