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ash11

Free agents this off season

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JVR is one player I've wanted to have for a while now. I just don't see Holland giving up the necessary players to get him though.

He's only 26 too and could easily be a part of their rebuild unless he requests a trade out of that gong show. But I haven't heard anything even hinting at him being unhappy there unfortunately.

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JVR is one player I've wanted to have for a while now. I just don't see Holland giving up the necessary players to get him though.

He's only 26 too and could easily be a part of their rebuild unless he requests a trade out of that gong show. But I haven't heard anything even hinting at him being unhappy there unfortunately.

Agreed, but the last thing Toronto wants to do is help us. The may trade us Pheneuf as they need to unload his contract, but I dont see them trading JVR to us unless its a part of a giant blockbuster with Pheneuf and a ton of our prospects.

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The Wings need a top pairing d-man and some size/goal-scoring ability at wing.

- This post brought to you by the years 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015.

It takes 4 years to adress a need?

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It takes 4 years to adress a need?

How many top pairing D-men and large goal scorers have you seen move teams in the last 4 years? Out of the 1 or 2, we had a 1 in 30 chance of securing them.Frankly, It's not as outrageous that we didn't fill that need as you make it sound.

Edited by number9

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It takes 4 years to adress a need?

Ideally, no or we are probably still watching the Wings play right now. That was my point -- their needs have been the same for years. Granted, top pairing d-men and big wingers don't grow on trees, but Holland needed a better contingency plan on defense than what transpired.

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How many top pairing D-men and large goal scorers have you seen move teams in the last 4 years? Out of the 1 or 2, we had a 1 in 30 chance of securing them.Frankly, It's not as outrageous that we didn't fill that need as you make it sound.

I dont think its outrageous like you thought i was alluding to. My comment is aimed both at free agency and trade, when we are talking about addressing a need. I understand the chances in free agency. Its not quite a 1/30 chance, the bottom dwellers have less of a chance, but i understand the point as a whole.

You do have a point on top players, it isnt that easy. Still Holland isnt a risk taker. Lots of the contending teams have made big trades in the last few years. We have made no big trades. One of the ways you can improve your team is by winning trades. Hard to do that when we dont try. Cole and Zids were actually good additions IMO at the time, but a bit of bad luck hurt us there. But what about a piece thats not a ufa like Cole and Zids were? We need to do better. If you make a trade early this offseason and appear you improve the team, then it helps your chances at free agency. Either way sooner or later you have to have some results at adressing needs, what happens if again we roll into the next season with the same glaring holes? At what point do you have to point fingers? Just something to think about.

Edited by Probie

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I dont think its outrageous like you thought i was alluding to. My comment is aimed both at free agency and trade, when we are talking about addressing a need. I understand the chances in free agency. Its not quite a 1/30 chance, the bottom dwellers have less of a chance, but i understand the point as a whole.

You do have a point on top players, it isnt that easy. Still Holland isnt a risk taker. Lots of the contending teams have made big trades in the last few years. We have made no big trades. One of the ways you can improve your team is by winning trades. Hard to do that when we dont try. Cole and Zids were actually good additions IMO at the time, but a bit of bad luck hurt us there. But what about a piece thats not a ufa like Cole and Zids were? We need to do better. If you make a trade early this offseason and appear you improve the team, then it helps your chances at free agency. Either way sooner or later you have to have some results at adressing needs, what happens if again we roll into the next season with the same glaring holes? At what point do you have to point fingers? Just something to think about.

My comment was aimed at both FA and trade as well.

Who in the last 4 years are you upset about not getting exactly? And as a follow up, what would you have given up to get that player(s)? I think you'll find that addressing those needs is even harder than you admit.

Edited by number9

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There are many guys that have been moved, several of which would have helped us. Hornqvuist who is Homer 2.0 for a front of net force. Neal a classic big forward that scores. Jordan Staal a big 2 way C. This year Perron would have been an upgrade at wing. Ryan a big scoring winger. Those are just some of the guys that actually moved, not the many "rumored" guys.

Point is, there are many trades made each year for high quality players. We are not a team that makes those moves. No team in any sport wins championships based on 100% drafted players. They all sign UFA's and make trades. Table scraps are not good enough-even if those are moves we may like.

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There are many guys that have been moved, several of which would have helped us. Hornqvuist who is Homer 2.0 for a front of net force. Neal a classic big forward that scores. Jordan Staal a big 2 way C. This year Perron would have been an upgrade at wing. Ryan a big scoring winger. Those are just some of the guys that actually moved, not the many "rumored" guys.

Point is, there are many trades made each year for high quality players. We are not a team that makes those moves. No team in any sport wins championships based on 100% drafted players. They all sign UFA's and make trades. Table scraps are not good enough-even if those are moves we may like.

We don't have 100% drafted players, but regardless, talent is talent. Doesn't matter where it comes from. In the past two years we've added two young 25+ goal scorers, the fact that we drafted them doesn't detract from that. That we've mostly (and perhaps permanently) lost one of the scorers we'd had hurts. That and that our big UFA signing hasn't lived up to expectations. If Franzen and Weiss had been healthy and Weiss was as productive as he was in Florida, it'd be a pretty big difference.

Franzen has been as productive as Staal the past two years, and Staal was healthy for one of them. Weiss's production has been about 60% of what it was in Florida. We could have brought in Ryan (though likely at the cost of Nyquist or Tatar), and he could have gotten hurt and/or his production could have dropped (has dropped in Ottawa in fact). Hornqvist and Neal were traded for each other, and neither produced more. Lateral move. Cole is as good or better than Perron. Zidlicky isn't great, but filled a need.

Yes, there are moves made for high quality players each year, from trades, UFAs, or promoting prospects. But not necessarily by every team every year. We have made some of them. What we've added at forward is as good or better than most teams. On defense, we've missed out on a few UFAs we tried to get. That does not mean we are not a team that makes those moves, or that we're trying to win a Cup with only drafted players. It only means that a few UFA defensemen chose other teams. Sucks that it's happened a few times in a row at a time when we really need it, but that's life. It's happened to every team, and will happen to every team again.

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We don't have 100% drafted players, but regardless, talent is talent. Doesn't matter where it comes from. In the past two years we've added two young 25+ goal scorers, the fact that we drafted them doesn't detract from that. That we've mostly (and perhaps permanently) lost one of the scorers we'd had hurts. That and that our big UFA signing hasn't lived up to expectations. If Franzen and Weiss had been healthy and Weiss was as productive as he was in Florida, it'd be a pretty big difference.

Franzen has been as productive as Staal the past two years, and Staal was healthy for one of them. Weiss's production has been about 60% of what it was in Florida. We could have brought in Ryan (though likely at the cost of Nyquist or Tatar), and he could have gotten hurt and/or his production could have dropped (has dropped in Ottawa in fact). Hornqvist and Neal were traded for each other, and neither produced more. Lateral move. Cole is as good or better than Perron. Zidlicky isn't great, but filled a need.

Yes, there are moves made for high quality players each year, from trades, UFAs, or promoting prospects. But not necessarily by every team every year. We have made some of them. What we've added at forward is as good or better than most teams. On defense, we've missed out on a few UFAs we tried to get. That does not mean we are not a team that makes those moves, or that we're trying to win a Cup with only drafted players. It only means that a few UFA defensemen chose other teams. Sucks that it's happened a few times in a row at a time when we really need it, but that's life. It's happened to every team, and will happen to every team again.

The question was about trades. More to the point: trades for star players. Something we haven't done in a long time. Yes we have made some trades, but those were for band aid type players, not difference makers.

Yes it is true that talent can come from many places. But and again this is key: we are only using 1 of the 3 major sources. No big time UFA signing-even Weiss wasn't big time, and no trades. That leaves only drafting. Yes some nice pieces have come through our system, but not enough to replace our loses. We are now a superstar less team. All of our stars have retired or have declined due to age where they are no longer stars. Good yes, but not the type of players that scare other teams and force teams to game plan to counter them.

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With the UFA pool looking thin this year will the front office look further afield and see if we can pick up a steal from Europe's league's. Maybe with our recent experiences with Lino ,Brunner and Brunnstrom we may be a little wary of it but I really think there are some very good players that are under the radar in the top euro league's. I was singing the praises of Panarin early this year and someone in the Blackhawks org saw the same as me and signed him up. There are others and more than a few who could help on the blue line.

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The question was about trades. More to the point: trades for star players. Something we haven't done in a long time. Yes we have made some trades, but those were for band aid type players, not difference makers.

Yes it is true that talent can come from many places. But and again this is key: we are only using 1 of the 3 major sources. No big time UFA signing-even Weiss wasn't big time, and no trades. That leaves only drafting. Yes some nice pieces have come through our system, but not enough to replace our loses. We are now a superstar less team. All of our stars have retired or have declined due to age where they are no longer stars. Good yes, but not the type of players that scare other teams and force teams to game plan to counter them.

The year we signed Weiss, he was considered a top free agent.

Here is an example of an article ranking him the #4 forward: http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/free-agents/2013-top-30-nhl-free-agents/

UFA is not what it used to be. Its pretty much either guys on the downside of their career asking for big money they are not worth anymore, slightly above average to below average players asking for money that they are not worth. Last year Paul Stasny was the #1 UFA forward, I think that says it all right there.

The key now a days is drafting well, making the right trade if its out there, and maybe making a signing or two if the right player comes around at the right price.

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Havent had a real goal scorer since Hossa. I would love it they could get a sniper and a D man. Maybe buy out Weiss.

Can't help but think if we kept hossa over franzen we would of won another cup

And even though filppula doesn't shoot he'd be way better than weiss

Replace Franzen and weiss with Hossa/filppula gotta think we're still playing right now

The year we signed Weiss, he was considered a top free agent.

Here is an example of an article ranking him the #4 forward: http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/free-agents/2013-top-30-nhl-free-agents/

UFA is not what it used to be. Its pretty much either guys on the downside of their career asking for big money they are not worth anymore, slightly above average to below average players asking for money that they are not worth. Last year Paul Stasny was the #1 UFA forward, I think that says it all right there.

The key now a days is drafting well, making the right trade if its out there, and maybe making a signing or two if the right player comes around at the right price.

No offense ... Considered number 1 by idiots ... Said it from day 1 he'd be a bust

Anyways like you said the days of signing Big name free agents are over .... Teams aren't letting them walk away anymore .... Last ones were the parise/suter year and that's cause they wanted to go back home

Can't recall another ufa year where there was a lot of big guys available

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No offense ... Considered number 1 by idiots ... Said it from day 1 he'd be a bust

I would disagree, I think alot of the media here in Canada are pretty educated, I really enjoy listening to Bob McKenzie. From what I remember, all of them were calling Weiss a great signing. If you are referring to the link I posted, that was just the first that came up in my Google search lol.

No offense taken, my point was that Weiss was considered a big free agent at the time, and that most of the experts ranked him right up there. Not sure what you mean by "considered number 1" though.

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I would disagree, I think alot of the media here in Canada are pretty educated, I really enjoy listening to Bob McKenzie. From what I remember, all of them were calling Weiss a great signing. If you are referring to the link I posted, that was just the first that came up in my Google search lol.

No offense taken, my point was that Weiss was considered a big free agent at the time, and that most of the experts ranked him right up there. Not sure what you mean by "considered number 1" though.

Was never high on weiss from the day he was signed said he was overrated and got the 60 pt season in Florida due to them having nobody thus he was given all the ice time in the world and powerplay opportunities ... There's a lot of players who play in less successful markets with No pressure and all the ice time needed who in better teams dissapear

Example ... Vermette , what has he done in Chicago? Hasn't done much since he was dealt there , but he was like one of the "big catches " on trade deadline day ... Keith yandle same .... Is yandle good? Sure but he's not as good as some people make him out to be , ekman larsson is the real deal

Point is even before weiss was here I personally never thought he was anything great and hated us getting him regardless of what hbo mckenzie or whom ever said

Even hockey people get it wrong sometimes .... Not saying I'm perfect cause I'm not , I thought after glendening got his 1 goal in 70 games last season he wouldn't last long cause I always think of the grind line years where the 4th line always gave us huge goals and helped us win playoff games ... Luke proved me wrong this year

Anyways just realized how much I wrote lol ... Point is never thought highly of weiss

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The question was about trades. More to the point: trades for star players. Something we haven't done in a long time. Yes we have made some trades, but those were for band aid type players, not difference makers.

Yes it is true that talent can come from many places. But and again this is key: we are only using 1 of the 3 major sources. No big time UFA signing-even Weiss wasn't big time, and no trades. That leaves only drafting. Yes some nice pieces have come through our system, but not enough to replace our loses. We are now a superstar less team. All of our stars have retired or have declined due to age where they are no longer stars. Good yes, but not the type of players that scare other teams and force teams to game plan to counter them.

Mrazek's going to be star. Maybe even a super one. And that's going to win this team a lot of games. Edited by rick zombo

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Mrazek's going to be star. Maybe even a super one. And that's going to win this team a lot of games.

And cups ... You forgot to add cups :)

Been saying it since last year he reminds me of hasek at times ...we got a future hasek in our hands :)

Just imagine what the wings would of done with hasek in his prime , could of won another 2-3 cups?

Now if Babcock can't see how amazing mrazek will be .... With a Tatar nyquist dekeyser now and guys like athanasiou larkin holmstrom mantha bertuzzi coming and see the potential then just f*** him

People talk about Edmonton cause of mcdavid but they'll never get in the playoffs until they get a goalie and now ones gonna trade them a star goalie

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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Yes Mrazek could become a star. My point is we don't have any stars now. Which is true. Yes we still have some solid guys and good players, but no real stars.

Just because Weiss was the best or one of the best, out of a bad group, doesn't make him a star. A star offensive player to me puts up multiple 80+ point seasons. Weiss never has and never will. Add in his average D and lack of physical play, he falls short in all catagories.

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Yes Mrazek could become a star. My point is we don't have any stars now. Which is true. Yes we still have some solid guys and good players, but no real stars.

Just because Weiss was the best or one of the best, out of a bad group, doesn't make him a star. A star offensive player to me puts up multiple 80+ point seasons. Weiss never has and never will. Add in his average D and lack of physical play, he falls short in all catagories.

So none of the examples you gave earlier would have been good enough for you either?

Star players hardly ever get traded. Or become UFAs. Maybe 1 or 2 a year. Less if you define star as narrowly as you do.

That we haven't been able to add much through trade or free agency in the last few years is hardly indicative of some organizational bias against it. It's just how things go. We've tried to do more on both fronts, but it hasn't worked out. Again, it happens to every team.

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So none of the examples you gave earlier would have been good enough for you either?

Star players hardly ever get traded. Or become UFAs. Maybe 1 or 2 a year. Less if you define star as narrowly as you do.

That we haven't been able to add much through trade or free agency in the last few years is hardly indicative of some organizational bias against it. It's just how things go. We've tried to do more on both fronts, but it hasn't worked out. Again, it happens to every team.

If you as a fan wish to sit there and be ok with the last 5 years, and the lack of activity by our organization, that is fine. I am not ok with it. Other teams have made moves and of course won cups. No every move doesn't work, we all understand that. But others have made moves to make their runs. Pitt, Bos, LAK, and Chicago have all made moves and yes won cups. They did not get into position strictly by drafting. All signed UFA's and made trades. We haven't and are now a starless team. A team that has to fight through the last game of the season to even make the playoffs.

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If you as a fan wish to sit there and be ok with the last 5 years, and the lack of activity by our organization, that is fine. I am not ok with it. Other teams have made moves and of course won cups. No every move doesn't work, we all understand that. But others have made moves to make their runs. Pitt, Bos, LAK, and Chicago have all made moves and yes won cups. They did not get into position strictly by drafting. All signed UFA's and made trades. We haven't and are now a starless team. A team that has to fight through the last game of the season to even make the playoffs.

lol that's your argument?

Pitt - drafted all their stars

Bos - drafted all their stars besides Chara, who really isn't a star anymore, and btw missed the playoffs unlike us

Lak - missed the playoffs unlike us

Chi - drafted all their stars

EDIT: The funniest part of this is the powerhouse and cup favorite, the rangers, you didn't even mention. They traded for for like everyone on their team :lol: I guess the ole LA, BOS, CHI, PIT party never gets old, despite the fact that only 1 of those teams is good this year lmao

Edited by number9

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Pittsburgh was given the 09 cup cause bettman had to have his golden boy win it all to promote the nhl .... Last 5 yrs they have emptied out all there picks and prospects for nothing

Chicago drafted toews Keith kane seabrook .... Who did they trade for exactly that helped them win a cup?

Bruins? Ya that seguin trade really helped the bruins .... Rask was a nobody when they got him and chara was a ufa like 8 yrs ago , lucic bergeron krejci drafted ...who'd they trade for?

Kings drafted doughty kopitar quick .... Gaborik was overrated and hardly a contributer in helping them win it all

Nobody has traded for a big name or signed one in the ufa market to help them win a cup in a very long time

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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