Free agents this off season

[e_prime 1,936]

Saw on twitter something about how the flyers haven't made any contact with lecavaliers agent on buying him out .... I was curious and went and check

Lecavalier has 3 years 4.5 cap hit left

I'm Not saying id do it but weiss has 3 years and 4.9 cap hit left

Would anyone take a gamble and make the trade?and then buy out lecavalier if he's god awful?

Contracts similar so it's 2 teams trading a problem for another

I'd probably try and trade weiss with some of his salary paid , rather then dealing with his contract for 4 years , or the 2nd option would be to just bury him in Grand Rapids for the season

This is just reaching. I don't understand how trading one bad contract for another makes any sense for anyone in this case. For 400k worth of savings.

Also, the buy out period only lasts from 2 business days (or thereabout) after a team wins the Cup to the end of June.

So you gotta figure out if Vinny is gonna suck real quick like, ya know? Unless you're talking about burying Vinny until next summer, as well.

Look, nobody likes Weiss' contract. Even people (ME) who'd like to see him get an actual chance to crack the line up and play some significant minutes. Yes, buying him out is an option... and if he really can't put next season together, it should be done. Yes, trading him is an option and one that should be explored. Yes, sending him down to GR is an option, albeit one that doesn't really save us much in the long run. ...but we've got a new coach, who might be able to give the guy a REAL chance to play to his capabilities or at least give him a real chance to make ANY impact.

Let's start there.

Edited June 17, 2015 by e_prime

[e_prime 1,936]

Ok screw SHARP what about Jumbo Joe what would it take for him could you imagine him on the 2nd Line?

ONLY if he promises to whip it out if someone scores four goals in a season. Also, gotta imagine he'd rather be traded to FLA or ARI than DET. The dude likes his sunshine.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

ONLY if he promises to whip it out if someone scores four goals in a season. Also, gotta imagine he'd rather be traded to FLA or ARI than DET. The dude likes his sunshine.

I'd be willing to bet he choose the Wings over either of those teams. Contrary to belief, Thorton actually wants to win a cup and not be labelled as a guy that couldn't get it done when it mattered. He's an elite talent and deserves to win a cup before he goes.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

jimmy, you'd rather Johnny Oduya over Franson, Green or Phaneuf? Seriously? He's the opposite of what we should be looking for. We need a top 4 puck moving defenseman that can put up some points, preferably in his prime, not a bottom pairing shut down defenseman...

For what they're probably going to get, yes.

And you're one of the only people I've ever heard call oduya a bottom pairing d.

[krsmith17 7,191]

He's a 2nd / 3rd pair tweener in my opinion, and I really don't see him as an upgrade over anyone currently in our top 4. Either way, no matter where he slots in, he's never going to produce points from the back end, and that's what we need. We need a puck moving defenseman that can quarter back a power play and is preferably relatively young and right handed... Oduya is none of that.

I'd choose Franson or Green at $5-6M over Oduya at $4M any day...

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

He's a 2nd / 3rd pair tweener in my opinion, and I really don't see him as an upgrade over anyone currently in our top 4. Either way, no matter where he slots in, he's never going to produce points from the back end, and that's what we need. We need a puck moving defenseman that can quarter back a power play and is preferably relatively young and right handed... Oduya is none of that.

I'd choose Franson or Green at $5-6M over Oduya at $4M any day...

I just have that feeling that any guy we bring in to put up points from the back end is going to disappoint here.

[krsmith17 7,191]

If Babcock were still here, I would tend to agree, but Blashill seems to like his defenseman to get a little more involved in the play. Their styles are very similar in a lot of ways, but l do believe we will see significant changes in certain areas. A little more free wheeling from the back end, hopefully being one of them...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should stray from the defensive game, I just think when we have some of the best two-way forwards in the game, we can afford to have our defemsemen jump up in the play a little more...

[Helmethead 235]

I can see a Phaneuf for Weiss, Smith and a 1st trade happening at the draft.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I can see a Phaneuf for Weiss, Smith and a 1st trade happening at the draft.

I can't see Weiss waving his ntc to go and sit next to Babcock.

[Helmethead 235]

Maybe not. He may actually get some playing time with the Leafs. Plus he's from Toronto.

He could go to the Leafs and if he plays well, he could be flipped at the trade deadline for a draft pick.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

He's a 2nd / 3rd pair tweener in my opinion, and I really don't see him as an upgrade over anyone currently in our top 4. Either way, no matter where he slots in, he's never going to produce points from the back end, and that's what we need. We need a puck moving defenseman that can quarter back a power play and is preferably relatively young and right handed... Oduya is none of that.

I'd choose Franson or Green at $5-6M over Oduya at $4M any day...

I agree with everything you said but Green currently makes 6.25 million. I don't see him taking a paycut.

[VM1138 1,921]

Saw on twitter something about how the flyers haven't made any contact with lecavaliers agent on buying him out .... I was curious and went and check

Lecavalier has 3 years 4.5 cap hit left

I'm Not saying id do it but weiss has 3 years and 4.9 cap hit left

Would anyone take a gamble and make the trade?and then buy out lecavalier if he's god awful?

Contracts similar so it's 2 teams trading a problem for another

I'd probably try and trade weiss with some of his salary paid , rather then dealing with his contract for 4 years , or the 2nd option would be to just bury him in Grand Rapids for the season

Lecavalier is worse than Weiss at this point. Weiss can still rebound. Lecavalier is done.

I can see a Phaneuf for Weiss, Smith and a 1st trade happening at the draft.

Babcock will never let this happen. His going there has basically killed any chance of getting Phaneuf.

I know he's not a defenseman, but if the Sharks are shopping Thornton I'd definitely inquire about what it would take to get him. He'd really solidify us up front, where we still need a little work, even if it's not the number one priority.

[Internet.Unknown 422]

I can see a Phaneuf for Weiss, Smith and a 1st trade happening at the draft.

Why in the world would TO trade for Weiss after Babcock would barely play the guy in DET?

[Rivalred 630]

Jumbo Joe would do wonders on this team but doubt we land him

[Buppy 1,720]

If Babcock were still here, I would tend to agree, but Blashill seems to like his defenseman to get a little more involved in the play. Their styles are very similar in a lot of ways, but l do believe we will see significant changes in certain areas. A little more free wheeling from the back end, hopefully being one of them...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should stray from the defensive game, I just think when we have some of the best two-way forwards in the game, we can afford to have our defemsemen jump up in the play a little more...

Don't let Kip's anti-Babcock bias confuse you. Babs always got good production out of capable defensemen. It's far more likely that Smith just isn't very good than that he (or anyone else) was being held back by Babcock.

Not saying that Blash won't also, just that I wouldn't expect any dramatic improvement.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Don't let Kip's anti-Babcock bias confuse you. Babs always got good production out of capable defensemen. It's far more likely that Smith just isn't very good than that he (or anyone else) was being held back by Babcock.

Not saying that Blash won't also, just that I wouldn't expect any dramatic improvement.

I dont understand this post.

You Call out kips "anti-Babcock bias" but in the end you more or less agree with his point.

And as much as I like babs, you have to admit, he became very overrated, very fast.

[amato 3,210]

Somehow I see Phaneuf in the Winged Wheel in a few weeks...

I was mostly joking..

I wouldn't be opposed depending on how much we'd give up and/or if they retain some salary.

Jumbo Joe would do wonders on this team but doubt we land him

I could see Kenny getting him when his contract is up and he wants another try or two at the cup.

[krsmith17 7,191]

darkmanx, I see your point, but I wouldn't pay Green a whole lot more than $6M per. He would be a great add, but with his defensive deficiencies, I'd like to keep it at or under $6M. I know, it's probably not likely unless Detroit is the team he wants to play for, which again is probably not likely... I think I'm in the minority here but I'd personally much prefer to land Franson over Green anyway, and I'd pay him up to $6-6.5M per. I think he could potentially give us just as much (maybe slightly less) production from the back end, but be much more solid in his own zone, and not be a liability on the ice. The guy is a hitting a shot blocking machine. I've been a huge fan of him since his first stint with Nashville 5-6 years ago, and I'd love to see him in the Winged Wheel.

I'm with the people that believe when Babcock went to Toronto, any chance of us landing Phaneuf went with it, and I'm quite okay with that.

I think trading for Thornton would be a huge mistake. The assets that we would have to give up definitely wouldn't be worth it. He's going to be 36 next month with 2 years left at $6.75M. He's still very productive right now but it's only a matter of time before that production starts to fade. If we're giving up the assets to land a big name center, I'd prefer it be for one that helps us long after Datsyuk is gone, not one that will likely retire around the same time...

Buppy, me and kip definitely don't agree on everything, but one thing I do agree with him about is that Babcock is very overrated. Babcock always gets good production out of the players that otherwise shouldn't produce much. He did great things for Abdelkader and Glendening, and he will do great with Peter Holland, Casey Bailey and eventually Freddy "the goat" Gauthier. In my opinion, Smith and Kindl have struggled due to Babcock not allowing them to play to their strengths, the same way I believe Jake Gardiner and maybe to a lesser extent Morgan Rielly could potentially struggle under Babcock... Babs is a good coach, just very overrated in my opinion. I was ecstatic to see Blashill take over and I believe we will see better results under him within the next few seasons than we have under Babcock over the past few seasons. Some may argue, that's due to us being on the upswing, but I would say, a big reason for that upswing is due to the great development in Grand Rapids under Blash...

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

If Toronto is doing a full rebuild why would any chance of us landing Phaneuf be gone now that they have a new coach?

[VM1138 1,921]

If Toronto is doing a full rebuild why would any chance of us landing Phaneuf be gone now that they have a new coach?

Because the players rumored to be in the package for Phaneuf are not favorites of Babcock. He benched Weiss most of the time, and while he continuously gave Smith chances, Smith was also one of the few players Babcock would call out for being...well...stupid. Rebuild or no, why would they dump one of their best defensemen for a bunch of guys Babcock won't play? You better believe he'll have a say in who they acquire, and he won't be doing the Wings any favors.

[VM1138 1,921]

I think trading for Thornton would be a huge mistake. The assets that we would have to give up definitely wouldn't be worth it. He's going to be 36 next month with 2 years left at $6.75M. He's still very productive right now but it's only a matter of time before that production starts to fade. If we're giving up the assets to land a big name center, I'd prefer it be for one that helps us long after Datsyuk is gone, not one that will likely retire around the same time...

Whether or not trading for Thornton would be a mistake depends on what we give up to get him, of course. But his age and contract doesn't worry me too much. I'm sure he's got at least one good season left in him, so the biggest risk is that we wind up with him for one year where he doesn't live up to his value. But I think odds are good he stays good for two years anyway, so to me that's a risk I'm willing to take.

The thing with Thornton is that he gives us that bonafide second line center we've been needing for years. I think we're fairly close to competing for a Cup, so that two year window would be huge. I'm also fairly certain the UFA market will be better in two years, so replacing him won't be impossible if he were to retire.

Imagine Thornton (the assist king) feeding Nyquist or Tatar or Zetterberg. He's the kind of veteran we need to jump start our offense a bit. And, again depending on who we give up to get him, we might have an extra trade piece to get that defenseman we so desperately need.

[marcaractac 3,963]

I dont understand this post.

You Call out kips "anti-Babcock bias" but in the end you more or less agree with his point.

And as much as I like babs, you have to admit, he became very overrated, very fast.

Only by Toronto media, however. I thought things were pretty grounded on Detroit's end on Babcock.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Euro_Twins, any trade scenario for Phaneuf that we've been hearing over the past 4 months included players that were Babcock's doghouse. Not to mention, Babs was one of the main reasons we were pushing for Dion at the deadline. I honestly think he will remain in Toronto this season, and if he is moved at some point, I don't see it being to Detroit...

VM1138, I would absolutely take Thornton on a two year contract worth $6.75M if he were a free agent. My issue is that I don't want to give up the assets it would take to get him in a trade. If you think Thornton is going to come cheap, you're mistaken. He will without a doubt cost us some very nice future pieces. Pieces I don't want to give up for two years of a soon to be declining center... Also, the free agent market is not going to get any better. The level of talent continues to decline year after year. Every team is locking up their stars and what you're left with is past their prime "stars" and support players. We've been doing a great job drafting and developing and unless a player becomes available that will help us now AND in the future, I don't want to part with any of our top prospects...

[rick zombo 3,739]

Maybe the Leafs take Weiss in a Phanuef trade and then buy him out? Doubt it but they did do something stranger than that with Horton in the Clarkson trade.

[kipwinger 8,524]

"Anti-Babcock bias" aside. I agree with one of Buppy's points, but I don't think it contradicts anything I said about Babcock and his use of Smith (or Kindl).

Babs absolutely DID get point production out of "capable" defensemen. Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and even Schneider. They all produced for Babs, and generally (because they were "capable") they would have produced anywhere and for anyone. In that sense Buppy and I agree. I'd also add that he probably got as much production out of Ericsson as anyone could/would and that while the jury's still out on Dekeyser's offense, he just had a pretty productive year. Quincey produced less here, but that's another topic.

However, I contend he didn't get as much out of Kindl and Smith as someone else probably would. Both of these guys were 1st rounders, drafted for their offensive acumen, who have the size, skating, and (in Kindl's case) shot, to be more productive NHLers. But to be productive, both need to skate with the puck. Something that is entirely antithetical to Babs' recent gameplan. He's said on a number of occasions that he wants the forwards to carry the puck into the zone, and wants tight gaps, and quick passes from the D to the forwards in the defensive zone. That makes the defense MORE susceptible to the forecheck (something neither Smith nor Kindl are comfortable with) and puts more emphasis on their decision making and passing in high vulnerability areas (both suspect for these two dingbats). When they gain possession, let them skate the puck out of trouble (and drop a forward back in coverage) and make their passes/decisions on the fly. Both have the wheels to do it, and both have traditionally been comfortable doing it. It would minimize their vulnerability to the forecheck and ensure that IF they turn the puck over, it will happen further away from their own end.

Neither Smith, nor Kindl, are that good. But both would produce more if allowed to skate with the puck and make plays. Tons of teams, and tons of defensemen, are utilized that way. Sure they'd get burned now and again, but they get exposed in Babs' system too. Difference is, at least this way they'd have the opportunity to contribute a little more than they currently do.

Edited June 18, 2015 by kipwinger