jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted June 18, 2015 If Toronto is doing a full rebuild why would any chance of us landing Phaneuf be gone now that they have a new coach?Because if they don't take back Weiss they'd have to eat a bunch of salary...And Weiss a a ntc that I doubt he'd waive to play for someone who used him so sparingly. That's my take on it anyway... 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted June 18, 2015 Jumbo Joe would do wonders on this team but doubt we land him That diving choker needs to stay as far away from Detroit as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted June 18, 2015 That diving choker needs to stay as far away from Detroit as possible.Yeah, but imagine him diving and choking all over pulkinnens stick...That sounded bad, But him feeding pulks would be nice. It'd take too much for someone his age though. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted June 18, 2015 That diving choker needs to stay as far away from Detroit as possible. He had similar numbers to Zetterberg this season, even though he's older and had a serious issues with his management. He's still a great passer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted June 18, 2015 Thornton has stated repeatedly that he has zero interest in leaving San Jose. He has a full no trade clause. He will retire a Shark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted June 18, 2015 He had similar numbers to Zetterberg this season, even though he's older and had a serious issues with his management. He's still a great passer. No doubt he's still a great passer. I think we should invest in someone younger for the top 6 if we're going to shop around. That isn't Holland's bag, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings87 1,290 Report post Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Yeah, but imagine him diving and choking all over pulkinnens stick... That sounded bad, But him feeding pulks would be nice. It'd take too much for someone his age though. When put together with the first statement, the second doesn't sound any better. Edited June 18, 2015 by wings87 1 Internet.Unknown reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 I dont understand this post. You Call out kips "anti-Babcock bias" but in the end you more or less agree with his point. And as much as I like babs, you have to admit, he became very overrated, very fast. Not sure what point of Kip's you think I agree with. Smith sucks? Yeah, I'm with him on that one. I do not agree that Babcock was holding back our offense, nor the production from our defensemen. Nor do I think he was over-rated. The contract situation was over-hyped perhaps, and that hype probably gave some an exaggerated opinion of how highly he was regarded. I think the opinion of Babcock is, in general, that he's one of the best coaches in hockey, and I'd agree. "Anti-Babcock bias" aside. I agree with one of Buppy's points, but I don't think it contradicts anything I said about Babcock and his use of Smith (or Kindl). Babs absolutely DID get point production out of "capable" defensemen. Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and even Schneider. They all produced for Babs, and generally (because they were "capable") they would have produced anywhere and for anyone. In that sense Buppy and I agree. I'd also add that he probably got as much production out of Ericsson as anyone could/would and that while the jury's still out on Dekeyser's offense, he just had a pretty productive year. Quincey produced less here, but that's another topic. However, I contend he didn't get as much out of Kindl and Smith as someone else probably would. Both of these guys were 1st rounders, drafted for their offensive acumen, who have the size, skating, and (in Kindl's case) shot, to be more productive NHLers. But to be productive, both need to skate with the puck. Something that is entirely antithetical to Babs' recent gameplan. He's said on a number of occasions that he wants the forwards to carry the puck into the zone, and wants tight gaps, and quick passes from the D to the forwards in the defensive zone. That makes the defense MORE susceptible to the forecheck (something neither Smith nor Kindl are comfortable with) and puts more emphasis on their decision making and passing in high vulnerability areas (both suspect for these two dingbats). When they gain possession, let them skate the puck out of trouble (and drop a forward back in coverage) and make their passes/decisions on the fly. Both have the wheels to do it, and both have traditionally been comfortable doing it. It would minimize their vulnerability to the forecheck and ensure that IF they turn the puck over, it will happen further away from their own end. Neither Smith, nor Kindl, are that good. But both would produce more if allowed to skate with the puck and make plays. Tons of teams, and tons of defensemen, are utilized that way. Sure they'd get burned now and again, but they get exposed in Babs' system too. Difference is, at least this way they'd have the opportunity to contribute a little more than they currently do. I would concede that if a coach were to come in with the goal of maximizing Smith's offense, that coach would probably get more out of him. Most likely at the cost of defense and better production from a more capable player being denied the opportunities given to Smith. Kindl was a stud in juniors no doubt, but that never translated to the AHL even. He just never really developed. While I guess the same logic above would apply to him, I kind of think he'd flop no matter what. Though really his offense hasn't been too bad. Over the last 3 years, out of 200ish defensemen to play 1500+ minutes, Kindl is in the top 60 in points/60 minutes. (Mostly due to a limited role and a good/lucky year this year.) I don't know how the jury could be out on Dekeyser. No question he's produced well. Wasn't even considered an offensive player, but he's in the top 60 in total points over the last two years and just outside the top 60 in P/60. Could he still improve? Certainly. He's 25 and has played two seasons. He should improve. As for the skating thing, I think you are greatly over-simplifying. Sure, tight gaps and quick passes may be the general plan, but you're ignoring literally hundreds upon hundreds of occasions where our defensemen; Lidstrom, Rafalski, Schneider, Kronwall, Dekeyser, even Stuart and Ericsson, have and do use their skating. Starting the breakout, skating through the neutral zone, joining the rush...happens quite a bit. Smith just isn't good enough to know when he should go that route. If he was, and he could have actually been effective doing so, I'm sure he would have shown it and thus earned the confidence from Babs to be a bit more free. However, I'll further concede that maybe Smith is one of those cases of a player and system/coach just not clicking. It happens. Hopefully he will flourish under Blashill. But even so, when 8 or 9 other defensemen did just fine for him, it does discredit the notion that Babcock was hurting offensive defensemen in general, as krsmith was suggesting. The onus for his poor performance thus far is squarely on Smith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) When put together with the first statement, the second doesn't sound any better.That was kind of my thought process on it. The joke----> (That's your face, the joke landed there.) Edited June 19, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,521 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 Not sure what point of Kip's you think I agree with. Smith sucks? Yeah, I'm with him on that one. I do not agree that Babcock was holding back our offense, nor the production from our defensemen. Nor do I think he was over-rated. The contract situation was over-hyped perhaps, and that hype probably gave some an exaggerated opinion of how highly he was regarded. I think the opinion of Babcock is, in general, that he's one of the best coaches in hockey, and I'd agree. I would concede that if a coach were to come in with the goal of maximizing Smith's offense, that coach would probably get more out of him. Most likely at the cost of defense and better production from a more capable player being denied the opportunities given to Smith. Kindl was a stud in juniors no doubt, but that never translated to the AHL even. He just never really developed. While I guess the same logic above would apply to him, I kind of think he'd flop no matter what. Though really his offense hasn't been too bad. Over the last 3 years, out of 200ish defensemen to play 1500+ minutes, Kindl is in the top 60 in points/60 minutes. (Mostly due to a limited role and a good/lucky year this year.) I don't know how the jury could be out on Dekeyser. No question he's produced well. Wasn't even considered an offensive player, but he's in the top 60 in total points over the last two years and just outside the top 60 in P/60. Could he still improve? Certainly. He's 25 and has played two seasons. He should improve. As for the skating thing, I think you are greatly over-simplifying. Sure, tight gaps and quick passes may be the general plan, but you're ignoring literally hundreds upon hundreds of occasions where our defensemen; Lidstrom, Rafalski, Schneider, Kronwall, Dekeyser, even Stuart and Ericsson, have and do use their skating. Starting the breakout, skating through the neutral zone, joining the rush...happens quite a bit. Smith just isn't good enough to know when he should go that route. If he was, and he could have actually been effective doing so, I'm sure he would have shown it and thus earned the confidence from Babs to be a bit more free. However, I'll further concede that maybe Smith is one of those cases of a player and system/coach just not clicking. It happens. Hopefully he will flourish under Blashill. But even so, when 8 or 9 other defensemen did just fine for him, it does discredit the notion that Babcock was hurting offensive defensemen in general, as krsmith was suggesting. The onus for his poor performance thus far is squarely on Smith. I was only saying that the jury was out on Dekeyser because of the small sample size. But I was giving him, and Babcock, full marks for his offense to this point but nothing that two seasons isn't really enough to project forward. As for Smith (and Kindl), I agree. Their poor performance is entirely on them. You don't get to pick your coach, and you don't get to pick your system. Further, I agree that making Smith better in one end of the ice might actually make him worse in the other. I'm not arguing that Blashill will make him a better defenseman. Smith will likely be mediocre no matter who he plays for. My only point was that he'll likely score more under Blashill, because Blash tends to let his defensemen join the rush more. And that plays to Smith strengths more than Babs' system did. He'll still be a dumpster fire in his own end, and probably need sheltered minutes. But at least he might score more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings87 1,290 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) That was kind of my thought process on it. The joke----> (That's your face, the joke landed there.) The comment between the two statements threw me. Oh well. P.s. not in love with you talking about Pulkinnens stick, and then later my face. Edited June 19, 2015 by wings87 1 jimmyemeryhunter reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LidstromIsASuperhero 29 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 Did this just become awkward? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 The comment between the two statements threw me. Oh well. P.s. not in love with you talking about Pulkinnens stick, and then later my face. Bahahaha.That one I did not intentionally do. But hilarious, nonetheless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 Did you guys know that Kenny Holland likes to kick tires? http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/ken-holland-is-kicking-some-tires?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter 1 martinezsvsu reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 Did you guys know that Kenny Holland likes to kick tires? http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/ken-holland-is-kicking-some-tires?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Kicking hard or hardly kicking? 1 jimmyemeryhunter reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Kenny singing Johnny Cash style... I felt like kicking lots of tires They turned me down down down with offers which were higher And I got burned burned burned From kicking tires From kicking tires Edited June 19, 2015 by Helmethead 3 e_prime, F.Michael and amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 Panthers aren't going to re-sign Kopecky. http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/782869 An overpaid aging former Red Wing? Someone please hide this information from Holland. 2 F.Michael and wings87 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 NOOOOOOOOOO! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 Panthers aren't going to re-sign Kopecky. http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/782869 An overpaid aging former Red Wing? Someone please hide this information from Holland. God I hope he signs elsewhere soon otherwise I can already predict the July 1 first transaction this season Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 God I hope he signs elsewhere soon otherwise I can already predict the July 1 first transaction this season Kopecky would be a great signing. But not for a penny more than $675,000. 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 Kopecky would be a great signing. But not for a penny more than $675,000. Best 4th liner in the game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted June 19, 2015 He's no Peluso though. Kopecky, Fleishmann, Matthias. Flower Power in action! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 Didn't know where to put this but Zach Hyman (Larkin's linemate last year at UofM) was traded to the Leafs along with a conditional 7th round pick in 2017 for Greg McKegg. They have until July 1st to work out a deal for him or he becomes a free agent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 Didn't know where to put this but Zach Hyman (Larkin's linemate last year at UofM) was traded to the Leafs along with a conditional 7th round pick in 2017 for Greg McKegg. They have until July 1st to work out a deal for him or he becomes a free agent. Ya I saw on twitter ... Friedman says a deal will basically come and since hyman is from toronto and they are gonna rebuild he'll get his chance ... And probably be in switzerland in 4 years for not choosing larkin lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 Didn't know where to put this but Zach Hyman (Larkin's linemate last year at UofM) was traded to the Leafs along with a conditional 7th round pick in 2017 for Greg McKegg. They have until July 1st to work out a deal for him or he becomes a free agent. According to Elliott Friedman, Detroit and San Jose are the other two teams looking to add Hyman if he hits free agency. Gotta think us having Larkin is a pretty big bargaining chip, assuming they at least had a decent relationship at Michigan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
