ECSF: Tampa Bay Crying Coopers vs. Montreal Complaining Canadiens

[aflac9262 211]

(cue mysterioso Montreal suspension)

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Well if you ask most everyone else, it's the smartest possible thing to do. Because Mike Babcock did it.

Another thing to do, and this is probably a long shot, is to play your scorers a lot. Press offensively. Control the puck. And in doing so, make the other team use their 4th line 18 minutes a night and/or render their best player ineffective with defensive assignments. Nah...what am I saying? That would never work.

Considering the Wings didn't stop Johnson anyways, you would think they might have tried that approach instead at some point in the series.

Gotta win every game 2-1 though in the eyes of the best coach ever.

Edited May 10, 2015 by GoWings1905

[Rhah 195]

TBL no power plays? Oh, the injustice!

[Buppy 1,720]

I don't think the difference between Johnson and Tatar/Nyquist was "toughness, grit, or compete level". I think, to a large extent, it was because Tyler Johnson was on the ice a lot more than Nyquist and Tatar were. He averaged 18:51 in ice time per game, while Tatar and Nyquist were 15:56 and 15:50 respectively.

Also, our powerplay wasn't very good and that affected their production totals as well.

Well if you ask most everyone else, it's the smartest possible thing to do. Because Mike Babcock did it.

Another thing to do, and this is probably a long shot, is to play your scorers a lot. Press offensively. Control the puck. And in doing so, make the other team use their 4th line 18 minutes a night and/or render their best player ineffective with defensive assignments. Nah...what am I saying? That would never work.

Well, the three games we won were the three games that Miller and Glendening played the most.

Smartass-ness aside, if Tatar and Nyquist weren't getting much done in the time they did have it's illogical to think they'd have done much more with a few extra shifts per game. It's not like they were playing 8 minutes. Plus, some of Johnson's TOI was on the PK. Zetterberg got 18 minutes, basically none on the PK, (more ES+PP time than Johnson) and he didn't manage much either.

[Buppy 1,720]

Considering the Wings didn't stop Johnson anyways, you would think they might have tried that approach instead at some point in the series.

Gotta win every game 2-1 though in the eyes of the best coach ever.

We did. End of game 4. Worked like a charm. For TB.

Most of Johnson's points came when he was able to get away from Glendening.

[kipwinger 8,520]

Well, the three games we won were the three games that Miller and Glendening played the most.

Smartass-ness aside, if Tatar and Nyquist weren't getting much done in the time they did have it's illogical to think they'd have done much more with a few extra shifts per game. It's not like they were playing 8 minutes. Plus, some of Johnson's TOI was on the PK. Zetterberg got 18 minutes, basically none on the PK, (more ES+PP time than Johnson) and he didn't manage much either.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I'm just at a loss for why a team full of so much offensive potential had such a hard time scoring goals this year. As I've stated before, I don't believe that Johnson, or Filppula, or Kucherov, or Palat, or Callahan, or any of those guys aren't noticeably more offensively capable than the guys we've got filling similar type roles. Only Stamkos is noticeably better than any of our guys, and he didn't do much. Every other player they have is comparable to someone we have. They aren't noticeably bigger, faster, or more skilled. So when all of our offensive players fail to produce, it makes me think it's something systemic.

[Mckinley25 677]

Yeah, you're probably right.

I'm just at a loss for why a team full of so much offensive potential had such a hard time scoring goals this year. As I've stated before, I don't believe that Johnson, or Filppula, or Kucherov, or Palat, or Callahan, or any of those guys aren't noticeably more offensively capable than the guys we've got filling similar type roles. Only Stamkos is noticeably better than any of our guys, and he didn't do much. Every other player they have is comparable to someone we have. They aren't noticeably bigger, faster, or more skilled. So when all of our offensive players fail to produce, it makes me think it's something systemic.

It's partly because our defense is terrible at offense. Every game I watched I was cringing at our transition attempts. Sustained pressure starts with defensemen who can move the puck forward and be relied upon to be part of the offensive cycle.

It felt like there were always 3 players trying to create instead of five, the forwards never even looked comfortable passing back to the defense, which results in poor angle shots and turnovers.

I'm certain there's more to it than that, but our best offensive defensemen are average at best.

[kipwinger 8,520]

It's partly because our defense is terrible at offense. Every game I watched I was cringing at our transition attempts. Sustained pressure starts with defensemen who can move the puck forward and be relied upon to be part of the offensive cycle.

It felt like there were always 3 players trying to create instead of five, the forwards never even looked comfortable passing back to the defense, which results in poor angle shots and turnovers.

I'm certain there's more to it than that, but our best offensive defensemen are average at best.

I don't necessarily disagree with the general theme you're suggesting, but you're overstating it a bit. After trading for Zidlicky, we were slightly above average (amongst playoff teams) in terms of defense scoring. Our best offensive defensemen (Kronwall, Zidlicky, and Dekeyser) had 44, 34, and 31 pts. respectively. For comparisons' sake, Duncan Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson (Chicago's top guys) had 45, 31, and 19 points. I'd even argue that Ericsson, Quincey, and Kindl contributed MORE than you'd realistically expect them to considering two of them are stay at home guys, and one of them played 34 games. Smith was underwhelming offensively, but that's relative to his talent and pedigree, and not relative to other third pair puck movers around the league.

And all these guys did that while playing REALLY good defense. Our shot suppression was impressive, and laudable.

Again, I'm not trying to disagree too much. I'd love to have a player or two on the back end who have a more dynamic ability to make plays in the offensive zone. But our defense was actually MUCH better than advertised. How bad it was is drastically overstated around here (I imagine because in the post-Lidstrom era that's all part of the narrative). Especially in the playoffs. Our defense wasn't even bad the one game Kronwall and Zidlicky were out. So I don't want to blame of lack of offense on that too much.

Side note: I laughed when I saw the "Is Kronwall a #1 defenseman" thread the other day. Kronners plays huge minutes, excellent defense, and scores 40+ points a season, but he's not a number 1. Keith, Pietrangelo, Suter, Byfuglien, Doughty, OEL, all do the the same thing and they're obviously better for some reason.

[Mckinley25 677]

I haven't watched Chicago at all, but with Detroit, in spite of any point totals, the defense is not good at helping the offense gain and sustain pressure. Particularly at 5 on 5.

I don't know what Detroit's defensive numbers look like outside the man advantage, or if it even matters, but something was amiss with their transition game.

I agree Kronwall is a #1, and I honestly forgot about him when I stated our best offensive d-men were average. Everybody but him are average.

I think Babcock can be credited with the shot suppression and possibly also with the transition game.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Ryan Callahan undergoes emergency appendectomy:

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/25181739/lightning-f-ryan-callahan-out-indefinitely-after-emergency-appendectomy

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

Ryan Callahan undergoes emergency appendectomy:

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/25181739/lightning-f-ryan-callahan-out-indefinitely-after-emergency-appendectomy

He couldn't have done that a couple weeks ago?!

I know, I know. Wouldn't have made a difference.

*pouts*

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Ryan Callahan undergoes emergency appendectomy:

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/25181739/lightning-f-ryan-callahan-out-indefinitely-after-emergency-appendectomy

That sucks

Win for him Bolts end this stupid series tonight. Stammer time

[rick zombo 3,739]

Habs in 7.

[kipwinger 8,520]

Habs in 7.

Could you imagine if Subban scored the game winner lol?

[ami 273]

Ryan Callahan undergoes emergency appendectomy:

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/25181739/lightning-f-ryan-callahan-out-indefinitely-after-emergency-appendectomy

karma's catching up?...

I hope some Habs employs Johnson's tactics and go after Callahan (I'm sure he playes game 7 and yes, I'm sure there will be game 7) as that little ***** went after Miller face in game 4.

I also hope no Yzerman team will ever win the Cup, save Red Wings.

[kipwinger 8,520]

karma's catching up?...

I hope some Habs employs Johnson's tactics and go after Callahan (I'm sure he playes game 7 and yes, I'm sure there will be game 7) as that little ***** went after Miller face in game 4.

I also hope no Yzerman team will ever win the Cup, save Red Wings.

Gallager's exactly the type of ****** bag for that job lol.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Gallager's exactly the type of ****** bag for that job lol.

For some reason, Gallager comes across as that kid in high school who acts all cool and thinks everyone loves him, but is pretty much hated by all.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I hope Paquette and Brown are nailing some Habs douchebags tonight and end the series.

Gallagher is like a little Marchand always yapping, always complaining but never backing it up.

[marcaractac 3,962]

I don't necessarily disagree with the general theme you're suggesting, but you're overstating it a bit. After trading for Zidlicky, we were slightly above average (amongst playoff teams) in terms of defense scoring. Our best offensive defensemen (Kronwall, Zidlicky, and Dekeyser) had 44, 34, and 31 pts. respectively. For comparisons' sake, Duncan Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson (Chicago's top guys) had 45, 31, and 19 points. I'd even argue that Ericsson, Quincey, and Kindl contributed MORE than you'd realistically expect them to considering two of them are stay at home guys, and one of them played 34 games. Smith was underwhelming offensively, but that's relative to his talent and pedigree, and not relative to other third pair puck movers around the league.

And all these guys did that while playing REALLY good defense. Our shot suppression was impressive, and laudable.

Again, I'm not trying to disagree too much. I'd love to have a player or two on the back end who have a more dynamic ability to make plays in the offensive zone. But our defense was actually MUCH better than advertised. How bad it was is drastically overstated around here (I imagine because in the post-Lidstrom era that's all part of the narrative). Especially in the playoffs. Our defense wasn't even bad the one game Kronwall and Zidlicky were out. So I don't want to blame of lack of offense on that too much.

Side note: I laughed when I saw the "Is Kronwall a #1 defenseman" thread the other day. Kronners plays huge minutes, excellent defense, and scores 40+ points a season, but he's not a number 1. Keith, Pietrangelo, Suter, Byfuglien, Doughty, OEL, all do the the same thing and they're obviously better for some reason.

Exactly. If anything, the biggest problem of this team is not having another Dman capable of doing what he could do. Sure we have a couple guys who can keep getting better and perhaps get to that level. But we land another dman like that this summer and this teams chances at making a run get a hell of a lot better. Which is why I think Phaneuf would be a great fit.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I hope Paquette and Brown are nailing some Habs douchebags tonight and end the series.

Gallagher is like a little Marchand always yapping, always complaining but never backing it up.

A sentence that contains the words "Paquette" and "douchebags" but fails to make a direct link between the two?

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

He couldn't have done that a couple weeks ago?!

I know, I know. Wouldn't have made a difference.

*pouts*

Well he did assist on Coburn's Game 7 goal....

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Wow no drouin again , he must be so f***en pissed .... Wouldn't surprised me if he gets dealt in hype next year or so

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Wow no drouin again , he must be so f***en pissed .... Wouldn't surprised me if he gets dealt in hype next year or so

he shouldve been in the AHL, but there's that rule where kids have to be in the NHL, or sent back to juniors, which I don't understand.

[Last season.]

This year it kinda just seems like they wanna go with experience..

Who's playing in place of him?

Callahan's not in is he?

Edited May 12, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[marcaractac 3,962]

Wow no drouin again , he must be so f***en pissed .... Wouldn't surprised me if he gets dealt in hype next year or so

Seguin was scratched a lot come playoff time in his rookie year to. Drouin will be fine. While I have no doubt the is bummed he doesn't get to play, I'm sure he gets it. The kid will get his chance.

[ami 273]

go habs (can't fuching believe I said that....)

make cooper whine!!