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sjr2012

Things you would like to see for 2015-16 Season

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Well, just because of where it comes from doesn't mean it isn't speaking some truths...we do need a bigger player up front, and for the first time in a long time, we actually have some trade assets that could bring us that player. Trade assets that are expendable.

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Well, just because of where it comes from doesn't mean it isn't speaking some truths...we do need a bigger player up front, and for the first time in a long time, we actually have some trade assets that could bring us that player. Trade assets that are expendable.

Like Jimmy Howard, as the writer suggests... for size and grit. Shhhhhuuuurrrrrrreeee.

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Stewart, Semin, Franson, a big pile of nope. Let them be someone else's problem.

As much as I'd love to see a trade for another top 4 dman (to replace Ericsson), I only see players getting moved for picks/prospects at this point. Unless a GM out there happens to be shopping someone Holland wants. But taking up more roster spots for the players left on the market makes no sense. The team has enough depth to wait for the right players.

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Stewart, Semin, Franson, a big pile of nope. Let them be someone else's problem.

As much as I'd love to see a trade for another top 4 dman (to replace Ericsson), I only see players getting moved for picks/prospects at this point. Unless a GM out there happens to be shopping someone Holland wants. But taking up more roster spots for the players left on the market makes no sense. The team has enough depth to wait for the right players.

Well the rangers are shopping Yandle. However seeing as they gave up so much just to put him on the third pair, I doubt we will give up whatever they are asking

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Franson is a right-handed Quincey with a better shot. That's it. Quincey is the more physical player of the two as well.

I don't get the obsession.

Franson isn't very good defensively either. I'm with you. I'm happy we got green over Cody, at least great is great offensively

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Some of you live in the most bipolar nightmarish dreamscapes imaginable.

Imagine a world where Nyquist actually gets to arbitration, we walk away and sign Chris Stewart... then the nightmare passes and then you turn your head to the other side of the pillow and we're in the fluffy candy cloud-filled world where we can trade Smith, Kindl, and Quincey for picks and land Franson.

Never wake me up.

Lmao why would we let nyquist just walk away when we could sign him and then trade him if it was the last resort? After years of losing guys off waivers we'd let the one guy who could actually bring value to a trade to get a dman just walk away lmao

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So true, sometimes this board drives me nuts with their pie in the sky ideas.

If "upgrading" from Quincey to Franson is anyone's idea of "pie", that person needs to meet some better bakers.

Lmao why would we let nyquist just walk away when we could sign him and then trade him if it was the last resort? After years of losing guys off waivers we'd let the one guy who could actually bring value to a trade to get a dman just walk away lmao

Obviously we aren't going to walk away from Nyquist. But in regards to the waiver thing, you do know that Quincey is the only player of note we ever lost on waivers. Maybe Nestrasil will turn out to be another. However, none of them had any real trade value at the time they were lost.

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Franson is a right-handed Quincey with a better shot. That's it. Quincey is the more physical player of the two as well.

I don't get the obsession.

Basically, he puts up points.

2009-10 -- 6 goals, 21 points in 61 games (Nashville)

2010-11 -- 8 goals, 29 points in 80 games (Nashville)

2011-12 -- 5 goals, 21 points in 57 games (Toronto)

2012-13 -- 4 goals, 29 points in 45 games (Toronto)

2013-14 -- 5 goals, 33 points in 79 games (Toronto)

2014-15 -- 7 goals, 36 points in 78 games (Toronto, Nashville)

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If "upgrading" from Quincey to Franson is anyone's idea of "pie", that person needs to meet some better bakers.

Obviously we aren't going to walk away from Nyquist. But in regards to the waiver thing, you do know that Quincey is the only player of note we ever lost on waivers. Maybe Nestrasil will turn out to be another. However, none of them had any real trade value at the time they were lost.

Yes I'm aware no one we lost were great nhl players ... Still a bit frustrating when we keep losing assets for nothing and not even able to pick up a 7th rounder

If we put anyone on waivers again this year , there are good chances they'll get claimed ... Ferraro for sure would find a taker somewhere for free on a cheap contract

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Basically, he puts up points.

2009-10 -- 6 goals, 21 points in 61 games (Nashville)

2010-11 -- 8 goals, 29 points in 80 games (Nashville)

2011-12 -- 5 goals, 21 points in 57 games (Toronto)

2012-13 -- 4 goals, 29 points in 45 games (Toronto)

2013-14 -- 5 goals, 33 points in 79 games (Toronto)

2014-15 -- 7 goals, 36 points in 78 games (Toronto, Nashville)

The Wings just signed Green to do that. DeKeyser is probably going to produce similar numbers offensively to Franson too and he's competent defensively. There's really no room or need for Franson anymore. I wouldn't move Quincey or Smith to get Franson on a bloated deal. Edited by GoWings1905

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The Wings just signed Green to do that. DeKeyser is probably going to produce similar numbers offensively to Franson too and he's competent defensively. There's really no room or need for Franson anymore. I wouldn't move Quincey or Smith to get Franson on a bloated deal.

I'm not saying we should sign Franson. You asked what people see in Franson and you said he's basically a right-shooting Quincey. What people see in Franson, when you get right down to it, is that he's a high-end offensive defenseman. Quincey is not a high-end offensive defenseman.

Here's the longer version.

Franson turns 28 in a month. He's 6'5". He shoots right (and shoots well). He has good offensive instincts and offensive ability. He's a good puck mover. He's an asset on the power play. He's a top-four offensive defenseman who could, in theory, be one half of an elite team's top pairing. For the most part, he hasn't played for especially talented teams, which makes his consistently good point production that much more impressive and, by logical extension, begs the question: Have we only seen the tip of the iceberg? If you put him on the right team and in a role that really makes sense for him and the team, you might very well get an all-star defenseman.

Between Franson and Quincey, Quincey might be the better defender, i.e. Quincey's play without the puck might be better than Franson's play without the puck. But Quincey, like Franson, does make his fair share of stupid mistakes. And Quincey, like Franson, isn't a great skater. One could argue Quincey is Franson without the offensive ability (e.g. puck movement) and scoring prowess.

Quincey was solid for us last season, but it's worth pointing out that he was paired with DeKeyser, who's a stud. From Winging It In Motown:

This past season, among the 108 defensemen who played at least 1000 5v5 minutes, DeKeyser finished 3rd in shot attempts against/60 minutes, 2nd in scoring chances against/60 minutes, and 10th in high-danger scoring chances/60 minutes.

(Link)

I wouldn't mind Franson at the right price. Yes, we just added a scoring defenseman in Mike Green, but I'd like to see us add one more top-four defenseman who can put up points. Green gets us into the playoffs and maybe into the second round. Green and Byfuglien gets us one of the better D groups in the league and a real shot at the Cup.

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Yes I'm aware no one we lost were great nhl players ... Still a bit frustrating when we keep losing assets for nothing and not even able to pick up a 7th rounder

If we put anyone on waivers again this year , there are good chances they'll get claimed ... Ferraro for sure would find a taker somewhere for free on a cheap contract

I think Ferraro would still clear; it's not like he's done anything particularly notable since last season. But that's really beside the point. Even if he would get claimed it doesn't mean anyone would be willing to trade anything for him. Why would they? There will be plenty of players as good or better on waivers (including Ferraro himself, or Andersson) plus UFAs, prospects of their own...

Ferraro isn't any good. The only reason people like him now is because he isn't Andersson. Very similar to a couple years ago when people liked Andersson for not being Emmerton.

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lets see, the reason Ferraro got as much playing time as he did is because of Babcock. If Holland waived Ferraro, Toronto would claim him, if they got the chance, because of Babcock. 99.99999% positive.

Callahan would probably get claimed as well. Andersson would also not make it past Toronto, Babcock loves him. So lets just give all our players to Babcock for free, there's a grand idea!

Edited by LeftWinger

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A couple good reads:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/7/2/8881379/ken-holland-says-NHL-red-wings-will-make-moves-trade-rumors

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/7/2/8886619/red-wings-roster-is-kyle-quincey-the-odd-man-out

I would be ok with trading Kindl or Quincey or Smith to a team that needs to reach the cap floor and giving the vacant spot to Ouellet or Marchenko. Both Ouellet and Marchenko are clearly NHL-ready. Hell, Babcock wanted Ouellet on the roster straight out of last year's training camp. These are not players who need to make major strides in Grand Rapids to prove they belong in the NHL. The only reason we're having this conversation is because there's a logjam (and the only reason there's a logjam is because Kenny rewarded Kindl and Ericsson with dumb contracts and now the two are pretty much untradable). Sure, Quincey and Ericsson are veteran NHLers and Ouellet and Marchenko aren't, and, in theory, a veteran is "better" than a kid. But we're getting dangerously close to Catch-22 territory.

"You need to be an NHLer for me to even consider rating you higher than a veteran NHLer, and until I rate you higher than a veteran NHLer, you can't be an NHLer. Grab dat cheez tho!"

I know, I know - better to have a veteran and a largely unproven kid than just an unproven kid. And that's fair enough. But, at the same time...if we're not planning on re-signing Quincey next summer, and we're not going to make a trade for a young stud defenseman, and we're going to continue to preach the need to get younger and quicker and how vitally important it is that the young players all take a step forward this season...maybe, just maybe, having Ouellet (probably the most promising of all our D prospects) on the third pairing instead of Quincey wouldn't be such a bad thing. Is it the safe play? No. Is it the smart play? Honestly, it probably isn't. But we have one of the weaker D groups in the league, and that's largely because we have a spectacular lack of young stud defensemen on the roster. If we're going to build ourselves a Cup-worthy D corps without the aid of a big trade, that means at least one of the Griffins prospects is going to have to become a stud NHL defenseman. Ideally, that happens while Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still elite, which gives us...two years? This may be a situation where "Eh, another year on the farm never hurt anybody" is not the right call.

thanks for the links both r good reads

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Ferraro isn't any good. The only reason people like him now is because he isn't Andersson. Very similar to a couple years ago when people liked Andersson for not being Emmerton.

This time last year, people were saying Glendening isn't any good. Ferraro is a better skater [note: he is a superb skater], he's a more natural scorer [note: he has consistently been one of the Griffins' top producers and, arguably, one of their most skilled, most complete, most valuable players], he's well-versed in Jeff Blashill's brand of puck-possession hockey, he can kill penalties, he can take faceoffs, he can agitate, he didn't look out of place against the Lightning, he complemented Miller and Glendening quite well.........the kid gets my vote for the 4RW spot. And I say all this as someone who had pretty much written him off. That he won me over, in the span of a few NHL playoff games? That counts for something in my book.

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lets see, the reason Ferraro got as much playing time as he did is because of Babcock. If Holland waived Ferraro, Toronto would claim him, if they got the chance, because of Babcock. 99.99999% positive.

Callahan would probably get claimed as well. Andersson would also not make it past Toronto, Babcock loves him. So lets just give all our players to Babcock for free, there's a grand idea!

You're making a lot of assumptions. Ferraro was near the bottom in ice time, as was Andersson. Not really sure that you can conclude much from him playing them slightly more than Weiss and Jurco. You're also assuming that he there aren't players in Toronto that he'll like.

And even if it's true that Toronto would claim them, so what? They're 4th in the claim order. Why would they trade for someone they'd be practically certain to get for free?

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Yes I'm aware no one we lost were great nhl players ... Still a bit frustrating when we keep losing assets for nothing and not even able to pick up a 7th rounder

If we put anyone on waivers again this year , there are good chances they'll get claimed ... Ferraro for sure would find a taker somewhere for free on a cheap contract

Ferraro is easily replaceable. Why bother getting upset over losing a fourth liner who hasn't really impressed all that much? His ceiling is pretty much a decent fourth liner.

lets see, the reason Ferraro got as much playing time as he did is because of Babcock. If Holland waived Ferraro, Toronto would claim him, if they got the chance, because of Babcock. 99.99999% positive.

Callahan would probably get claimed as well. Andersson would also not make it past Toronto, Babcock loves him. So lets just give all our players to Babcock for free, there's a grand idea!

They're worthless in trades. If we can't keep them, who cares if Babcock takes them for free? They won't help him significantly and it won't hurt us at all to lose them.

If anyone gets traded I'm betting it's Ericsson. I don't know if he has a NTC (probably does, Holland was handing those out like candy a few years back), but he just doesn't quite fit. He's the only one with any snarl, but that's about all he brings that other players don't. Pretty much any way you pair up the defensemen, he's the odd man out. Just doesn't really pair up with anyone but Kronwall all that well, and even then there are better options.

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Ferraro, Callahan, Andersson. To me, they're pretty much interchangeable 4th liners.

Does each guy bring a certain something that maybe the other doesn't? Sure.

Barring a trade, Franzen's head, Datsyuk's ankle and Acts of God, at least two of these guys are going to hit waivers at the start of the season.

Thankfully most teams are still figuring out their teams at that point so there aren't typically a whole lot of players claimed...

Wost Case Scenario: Be prepared to lose at least one for jack squat.

As far as Yandle and Franson go, I don't see Kenny making the moves to get either of these guys.

The Rags aren't going to take scraps for Yandle... remember that they gave up John Moore, Anthony Duclair, a lottery protected 1st rounder in 2016, and second rounder in 2015... despite their need to clear cap space, moving him only clears 2.6 million. So, unless someone makes them a really good offer for him, I don't see the Rangers moving him.

...and we can't add ANYMORE defensemen unless we clear some out.

Franson is still looking to get PAID, and despite what a lot of you think, probably deservedly so, but his window of opportunity is closing quickly.


If anyone gets traded I'm betting it's Ericsson. I don't know if he has a NTC (probably does, Holland was handing those out like candy a few years back), but he just doesn't quite fit. He's the only one with any snarl, but that's about all he brings that other players don't. Pretty much any way you pair up the defensemen, he's the odd man out. Just doesn't really pair up with anyone but Kronwall all that well, and even then there are better options.

Ericsson has a modified NTC.

His snarl is pretty weak too.

Edited by e_prime

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Every team has guys of the same caliber as Ferraro, Andersson, and Ferraro. They're not worth that much and are easily replaced if they do get claimed which isn't even close to 99% sure. People see a coach say good things about a guy like them, Lashoff, Cleary, etc. and think "the coach loves that guy," when really the guy is just a serviceable player and coaches generally say good things about their players.

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