Jim Devellano on Mantha's play: "Very disappointing"

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

All I'll say is... You know when a player scores a goal and they say "wow, he just never stopped moving his feet that entire shift, and got rewarded for it"

He's not that guy

Gotcha. Thanks! Around my house we call that the case of the "Robert Langs"

[Nightfall 871]

Come on man, you asked him to provide you with a link on where scouts said that about him, and he did.

He didn't cherry pick those, that was the talk on him in his draft year, what he was supposedly going to work on, and what he himself said he wants to dispel during his last qmjhl season.

Once the player gets to grand rapids, we don't hear much about him unless he's doing amazing, or doing horrible.

If someone were to call out his work ethic halfway through the season, his broken leg could be pointed to as a reason he wasn't in game shape.

There's been lots of talk of him being a floater, that doesn't mean were calling him a bust, or giving up on him, its just how it is.

Negative, I did not ask him about what scouts said about him. I asked him to provide links on what was said about his work ethic this season. I could care less what scouts in the past (like pre 2014) have said about him. I do care about what coaches and scouts say about him for his work ethic this year and so far, it has been all about development and the reports have been all positive aside from the broken leg.

The point I wanted to make is that no one has called out his work ethic at any time this season besides Jimmy D and his assessment is a poor one to say the least. Something the trolls have been quick to jump on and ride into the sunset. The key is that it is still too early to make any determination on how he is developing. He is a prospect, plain and simple. I never really boarded the hype train on this guy and I find it pretty funny how trolls are willing to dismiss this kid and he hasn't even completed his first season in the minor leagues as a developing prospect.

[Nightfall 871]

They have scouting reports on AHL players? Link? Source? I provided one from HF

And do you really expect Blashill to blast Mantha's work ethic? Or Holland? The only one being totally honest here (whether that honesty is as classy as the rest of the organization or not) is Devellano. He has been a big disappointment this year, plain and simple. Whether that's because of his work ethic or the vague scapegoat answer "struggles", it's still true.

I'm not cherry picking, pretty much every draft day scouting profile highlighted his coasting from time to time. That's not saying he doesn't have many other talents, but that's always been the knock on him. You act like you've never heard this before about him... I thought it was pretty well known.

I talk like I've been watching him because I've seen a lot of him in GR. For work I travel to Michigan, specifically GR, all the time. The only one I know who watches more games than me is Krsmith....

I provided one from HF as well, one that you didn't read apparently. Let me requote it.

2014-15: Mantha did not make his pro hockey debut with Detroit AHL affiliate Grand Rapids until November after suffering a broken tibia in a rookie tournament game in September. Steadily adapting to pro hockey from the junior game, he had the ups and downs not uncommon for a 20-year-old in his first AHL season. He provided secondary scoring and some physical play in his first season with the Griffins.

You said his lack of work ethic has been well documented. So far, no scout or coach is saying work ethic is a problem. This is all a learning situation.

I also think its comical that you are willing to take Jimmy's word for how Mantha is doing, but not Blashill or Holland's assessment. If that isn't cherry picking, I don't know what is.

I am glad that you have seen him play and have formed a negative opinion of him already in his young career. You speak like you have not seen him out there, but I digress. Since you have obviously vetted him and determined he is a failure already, what would you do with this prospect? Would you jettison him or keep him in the fold in hopes he develops?

[number9 3,297]

Negative, I did not ask him about what scouts said about him. I asked him to provide links on what was said about his work ethic this season. I could care less what scouts in the past (like pre 2014) have said about him. I do care about what coaches and scouts say about him for his work ethic this year and so far, it has been all about development and the reports have been all positive aside from the broken leg.

The point I wanted to make is that no one has called out his work ethic at any time this season besides Jimmy D and his assessment is a poor one to say the least. Something the trolls have been quick to jump on and ride into the sunset. The key is that it is still too early to make any determination on how he is developing. He is a prospect, plain and simple. I never really boarded the hype train on this guy and I find it pretty funny how trolls are willing to dismiss this kid and he hasn't even completed his first season in the minor leagues as a developing prospect.

From your own quotation of Blashil

"When you care as much as he cares, as soon as he learns the daily attention to detail and the daily work ethic it takes, with his skill set, he’s going to be a special player."

That's the coach spelling out that he doesn't have the attention to detail or work ethic yet. So there ya go.

Scouting profiles after the draft don't exist. All we get is small vague snippets from our coaches and manager. Why is Jimmy D any less of an authority on the matter than Holland or Blashill? Cherry picking?

So you are aware of his pre2014 history with poor work ethic then? That he has history of this type of play?

I provided one from HF as well, one that you didn't read apparently. Let me requote it.

2014-15: Mantha did not make his pro hockey debut with Detroit AHL affiliate Grand Rapids until November after suffering a broken tibia in a rookie tournament game in September. Steadily adapting to pro hockey from the junior game, he had the ups and downs not uncommon for a 20-year-old in his first AHL season. He provided secondary scoring and some physical play in his first season with the Griffins.

You said his lack of work ethic has been well documented. So far, no scout or coach is saying work ethic is a problem. This is all a learning situation.

I also think its comical that you are willing to take Jimmy's word for how Mantha is doing, but not Blashill or Holland's assessment. If that isn't cherry picking, I don't know what is.

I am glad that you have seen him play and have formed a negative opinion of him already in his young career. You speak like you have not seen him out there, but I digress. Since you have obviously vetted him and determined he is a failure already, what would you do with this prospect? Would you jettison him or keep him in the fold in hopes he develops?

You sir are a strawman. Exaggerate my stance much? I don't at all think he is a failure/bust. I think he's still one of our top - biggest and most talented - prospects, who happens to have an issue being consistent in his desire on every play.

Good HF quote. It's true. He did have his ups and downs all season! Sometimes he was up making sweet plays, and sometimes he was down standing around looking at the puck. Which I'm sure had something to do with Blashill benching him entire periods on occasion... which I'm sure you've also seen attending games.

It was hoped he could go to the Wings straight away. Didn't happen. It was believed he would at least dominate the AHL. Didn't happen. The expectations were higher for him than most prospects. Based on those expectations this was a disappointing season for him.

Oh and the troll accusing is cute

Edited May 27, 2015 by number9

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Negative, I did not ask him about what scouts said about him. I asked him to provide links on what was said about his work ethic this season. I could care less what scouts in the past (like pre 2014) have said about him. I do care about what coaches and scouts say about him for his work ethic this year and so far, it has been all about development and the reports have been all positive aside from the broken leg.

The point I wanted to make is that no one has called out his work ethic at any time this season besides Jimmy D and his assessment is a poor one to say the least. Something the trolls have been quick to jump on and ride into the sunset. The key is that it is still too early to make any determination on how he is developing. He is a prospect, plain and simple. I never really boarded the hype train on this guy and I find it pretty funny how trolls are willing to dismiss this kid and he hasn't even completed his first season in the minor leagues as a developing prospect.

That is exactly what i said in the first place, are you just trying to argue for no reason?

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

You said his lack of work ethic has been well documented. So far, no scout or coach is saying work ethic is a problem. This is all a learning situation.

I also think its comical that you are willing to take Jimmy's word for how Mantha is doing, but not Blashill or Holland's assessment. If that isn't cherry picking, I don't know what is.

I am glad that you have seen him play and have formed a negative opinion of him already in his young career. You speak like you have not seen him out there, but I digress. Since you have obviously vetted him and determined he is a failure already, what would you do with this prospect? Would you jettison him or keep him in the fold in hopes he develops?

Whether you want to call it a problem or a learning situation he doesn't consistently skate or compete or whatever you wanted to call it. Here's recent quotes from Holland and Blashill:

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/st.-james-discusses-anthony-manthas-learning-curve

It is an acknowledged problem. I don't think any have counted him out. Let's hope he overcomes this shortcoming and a year of adversity. He got a goal tonight. Small steos

[PumpkinEscobar 136]

All I'll say is... You know when a player scores a goal and they say "wow, he just never stopped moving his feet that entire shift, and got rewarded for it"

He's not that guy

He sure was tonight..watch his goal on the Griffin's thread

[TomTestedTough 8]

He just reminds me of Franzen. Listen to his interviews. He is calm, matter of fact etc. Floats around and gets you angry and then scores a great goal. Doesn't go into the corner. Rarely comes away with the puck along the boards.

I hope that he develops into something, but I would not hold my breath and I would not offer a 10 year contract either.

[marcaractac 3,962]

He just reminds me of Franzen. Listen to his interviews. He is calm, matter of fact etc. Floats around and gets you angry and then scores a great goal. Doesn't go into the corner. Rarely comes away with the puck along the boards.

I hope that he develops into something, but I would not hold my breath and I would not offer a 10 year contract either.

He has started playing more physical the last couple games. He also got rewarded for driving the net when he scored. Will be great if he continues to build off of that.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Outstanding article on Mantha from WiiM

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/7/23/8903521/the-demise-of-anthony-mantha-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-detroit-red-wings

[kickazz 5,459]

what if Larkin has a disappointing AHL season

Edited July 23, 2015 by kickazz

[Helmethead 235]

The board would blow up. Lol

Leftwinger would call him Darlene.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Read that earlier too zombo. Great read, but I figured it would fall on deaf ears around here...

[rick zombo 3,739]

what if Larkin has a disappointing AHL season

If that happened and I were Svechnikov, I'd move back to Russia.

[amato 3,210]

Good article, pretty much my thoughts all along. Dunno who was calling him a "reclamation project"..? Other teams' fans hoping to land him cheap?

[number9 3,297]

Yeah he's definitely not a reclamation project.

I get that expectations were high. There was a ton of him talk about him going straight to the Wings right after juniors. That's a lofty expectation, especially for a Red Wings prospect. But I thought he'd at least be able to hold down a top spot in the AHL, and he couldn't do that, so in that way I think he failed to meet (my) expectations for him.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I honestly think the Mantha backlash was completely based on the fact that Wings fans haven't had too many first round, blue chip prospects to boner over in 20 years. We were starving for one. So when Mantha came along, the hype got out of hand.

[kickazz 5,459]

I honestly think the Mantha backlash was completely based on the fact that Wings fans haven't had too many first round, blue chip prospects to boner over in 20 years. We were starving for one. So when Mantha came along, the hype got out of hand.

Love it.

[e_prime 1,936]

Yeah he's definitely not a reclamation project.

I get that expectations were high. There was a ton of him talk about him going straight to the Wings right after juniors. That's a lofty expectation, especially for a Red Wings prospect. But I thought he'd at least be able to hold down a top spot in the AHL, and he couldn't do that, so in that way I think he failed to meet (my) expectations for him.

I think even expecting him to hold down a top spot in the AHL is a pretty lofty expectation. Going from the Q and being "a man amongst boys" to the AHL where he's "a boy amongst men" is a big change. Serious huge step up from the Q to the AHL.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

So he broke his leg in training camp, took extra long to get back to 100% (if he even got there) and then he still tallied 33 points in 62 games, and you are saying despite all this, he still should've held down a "top spot" in the AHL and therefore he is a bust and a disappointment? I think you, amongst other put way too much expectation on these kids...Mantha, disappointing, Pulk, sucks too one dimensional, who's next, Larkin? AA? I mean come on, they all aren't going to step right in to the next level without developing more...may as well trade them all.

...is it too soon to say tank it? We have no future, close the franchise.

Edited July 23, 2015 by LeftWinger

[kickazz 5,459]

So he broke his leg in training camp, took extra long to get back to 100% (if he even got there) and then he still tallied 33 points in 62 games, and you are saying despite all this, he still should've held down a "top spot" in the AHL and therefore he is a bust and a disappointment? I think you, amongst other put way too much expectation on these kids...Mantha, disappointing, Pulk, sucks too one dimensional, who's next, Larkin? AA? I mean come on, they all aren't going to step right in to the next level without developing more...may as well trade them all.

...is it too soon to say tank it? We have no future, close the franchise.

Never too soon to say Tank it.

They all suck.

TANK IT.

[Buppy 1,720]

I think even expecting him to hold down a top spot in the AHL is a pretty lofty expectation. Going from the Q and being "a man amongst boys" to the AHL where he's "a boy amongst men" is a big change. Serious huge step up from the Q to the AHL.

Hilarious. He absolutely should have been expected to be a top line player in GR. Even considering the injury he should have at least reached that level by the end of the year.

The people critical of him now are not for the most part the same people who had such unreasonable expectations. Those people are mostly the people defending him. Like LW. Last summer Mantha was better than Franzen and should be on the top line in Detroit, now it was too much to expect top line in GR. BS.

20th overall pick, 20-yo, great size, excellent skating, exceptional offensive skills, goal-per-game in the Q...we absolutely had a right to expect something better than 60th overall pick, undersized, 18-yo, first year in NA, Tomas-Tatar-level production.

He was disappointing. Not just relative to the more ridiculous expectations, but even to the reasonable ones. I didn't even expect him to be dominant in the AHL. But top-liner? 25-ish goals? 50-ish points? Maybe some consideration for AHL ROTY? Without a doubt. The injury was a setback, but he should have been coming around late in the year at least. Instead he got even worse.

He was disappointing. He knows, the coaches know it, management knows it, fans know it. Some just want to deny it because they think saying anything critical about a player they like is the end of the world or something. It isn't. He was disappointing. And that's OK. Doesn't make him a bust. Doesn't even mean he won't eventually be as good as thought prior to last season. It's just one season.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I've said before that his biggest issue was and will be adjusting from playing 2+ minute shifts picking his spots to playing hard for 30-35 seconds at a time. Too many junior coaches think it's still the 1960's where top players didn't skate hard all the time.

[number9 3,297]

So he broke his leg in training camp, took extra long to get back to 100% (if he even got there) and then he still tallied 33 points in 62 games, and you are saying despite all this, he still should've held down a "top spot" in the AHL and therefore he is a bust and a disappointment? I think you, amongst other put way too much expectation on these kids...Mantha, disappointing, Pulk, sucks too one dimensional, who's next, Larkin? AA? I mean come on, they all aren't going to step right in to the next level without developing more...may as well trade them all.

...is it too soon to say tank it? We have no future, close the franchise.

Disappointment? Absolutely. Bust? No.

Edited July 24, 2015 by number9

[number9 3,297]

I think even expecting him to hold down a top spot in the AHL is a pretty lofty expectation. Going from the Q and being "a man amongst boys" to the AHL where he's "a boy amongst men" is a big change. Serious huge step up from the Q to the AHL.

He was no ordinary Q prospect. Dominated the Q and has a massive frame. Last fall I said making the Wings was too lofty and people are gonna turn on him when it doesn't happen. I didn't expect him to make the Wings, but I did fully expect him to have a Larkin like transition based on him being a definite blue chip.