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Jim Devellano on Mantha's play: "Very disappointing"

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The problem with Mantha (and likely the reason he slipped to #20 in a draft he was considered the best goal scorer in) is and always has been his attitude/work ethic/compete level.

I obviously don't train or practice with the him every day, but I think its a pretty reasonable assessment to say his lack of results at the AHL level are directly related to habits rather than skillset. He's 6'5, 200+ LBS, and possesses a lethal shot which allowed him to score 81 goals in 81 games last year for Val d'Or, size isn't an issue and he didn't just forget how to score goals. I'm not saying anyone should have expected a seamless transition or comparable statistical output, but it looks and sounds to me like he became comfortable relying mostly on skill at the QMJHL level, and may have underestimated how much work goes into being a professional.

I think Devellano understands this - and uses public criticism as a way to motivate a player capable of so much more.

This may sound crazy, but he's probably one of the few 20 year olds who might actually be a better Red Wing than Griffin. This way he can see first hand what it takes to be a Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg or Nick Kronwall.

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So, as someone who has seen his play in the minors this year, would you think he is just coasting around out there?

I have been to roughly half of the griffins games this year since my company has season tickets, and I wouldn't classify him as just coasting.

He's coasting all the way to Franzenville

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Mantha has said all the right things in interviews. Seems like he's got a good attitude and desire to work hard based on his comments. Admittedly I've only seen him play in the World Junior. Based of scouting reports, he's always been a guy that is in good position to score and just finds a way to be around the net. He's not a Larkin that does everything all over the ice so when he's not scoring he isn't doing much

A kid whose a good skater, got size and has a knack around the net will eventually get the hang of things as long as he has the right attitude. I've never heard him say anything that would make me question his character

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Petr Klima too.

Different type of player, though. He was more of a skilled player, although he was picked in the later rounds (likely because no one knew anything about foreign players then).

Likewise, Yzerman was a no-brainer pick in that same draft at the 4 spot.

The players I mentioned, however, are three of the ten best fighters in NHL history. Devellano picked all three of them in the same freaking draft.

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Different type of player, though. He was more of a skilled player, although he was picked in the later rounds (likely because no one knew anything about foreign players then).

Likewise, Yzerman was a no-brainer pick in that same draft at the 4 spot.

The players I mentioned, however, are three of the ten best fighters in NHL history. Devellano picked all three of them in the same freaking draft.

Yeah I edited post, I was linking Klima due to off ice discipline issues. Should have checked his PIMS before I posted though!

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No, his work ethic on the ice is well documented

Link, source?

Hearing Blashill talk about him is all about working with him to improve his two way game and watching him on the ice you see that kind of effort. Now, maybe he is being underutilized and maybe it took him a while to recover from the broken leg, but I haven't read anything that says he doesn't have a strong work ethic.

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Link, source?

Hearing Blashill talk about him is all about working with him to improve his two way game and watching him on the ice you see that kind of effort. Now, maybe he is being underutilized and maybe it took him a while to recover from the broken leg, but I haven't read anything that says he doesn't have a strong work ethic.

Then you must not being following him very closely

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/anthony-mantha/

"For a player of his size, he skates very well but he needs to keep his feet moving and work hard on both sides of the puck."

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/04/23/anthony-mantha-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-14/

"Defensively, Mantha’s game is inconsistent. I have seen him be an effective backchecker in his own end of the ice, but I’ve also seen games where he doesn’t get involved enough defensively. He will need to be more consistent in that area of his game and get rid of his bad habit to puck-watch at times."

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2013/6/18/4442938/2013-nhl-draft-profile-anthony-mantha-val-dor

"The 6'4 Val-d'Or left wing has admirable skill but is said not to use his size enough nor exhibit enough "drive" for some scouts' liking."

"He can skate, he's smart, he reads the play, he has everything. But if there's one negative, he sometimes has a tendency to take the easy way out." - Central Scouting's Chris Bordeleau

"He might be the draft's purest scorer, but many guys with inferior stats get more love. "He's not the most eager kid," one scout said. "Some nights you wonder where the intensity is."" - The Hockey News Draft Preview

http://isportsweb.com/2014/06/01/detroit-red-wings-prospect-profile-anthony-mantha/

"On the other hand he gets criticized for taking shifts off and being reluctant to help in his own zone."

There is literally link after link of descriptions like this from scouts. If you've followed him since the draft then you'd know this has always been the knock on him. I hoped he had put that behind him the next year in juniors when he did all that scoring, but he's been incredibly inconsistent and invisible at times in Grand Rapids. Standing and watching the puck seems to be up there right alongside goal scoring for him. It's frustrating to watch him.

Edited by number9

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There is literally link after link of descriptions like this from scouts. If you've followed him since the draft then you'd know this has always been the knock on him. I hoped he had put that behind him the next year in juniors when he did all that scoring, but he's been incredibly inconsistent and invisible at times in Grand Rapids. Standing and watching the puck seems to be up there right alongside goal scoring for him. It's frustrating to watch him.

While I really did enjoy reading and watching you cherry pick bad things that some scouts said about him, you didn't post a single link from his playing time in the AHL this season documenting that he was lacking the work ethic. I asked for a source or a link that showed that his work ethic on the ice this season was poor. You are talking like you have been watching him. As someone who has been watching him this season, I can tell you this isn't the case. The coaching staff continues to speak highly of him. Even the scouting reports from the very links you gave also speak highly of his work ethic (to which you omitted).

Mantha joined the professional ranks in 2014-15; skating for Red Wings' AHL affiliate Grand Rapids. Slowed by an injury that kept him from competing for an NHL spot in Detroit, he returned to the ice in November 2014. He has had the battles and struggles not uncommon for a first-year pro making the jump from junior hockey. Long-term he is expected to be a consistent scorer at the NHL level and a top-line forward.

Here is another one. This time from someone who is watching him play in the AHL this year.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/1/28/7918487/the-red-wings-and-the-fans-must-be-patient-with-anthony-mantha

Case in point, we must be patient with him. He's got the skill, he's got the work ethic, and he sure as hell has got the tools.. I have every reason to believe that he will pan out into a great hockey player at the professional level.

How about from the coach himself. Surely he would know better than us.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/13/manthas-going-to-be-a-great-player-says-detroits-ahl-coach/

“That’s just going to take time, but habits will change if work at them and willing to work hard at them and listen and get better. That’s what he’s certainly been willing to do.

“We know he can score goals,” said Blashill. “But he’s actually got an ability to make lots of plays with the puck in tight areas and I think when you’ve got that kind of stick, at that size level, when you can skate like that – its just a really good package.”

“When you care as much as he cares, as soon as he learns the daily attention to detail and the daily work ethic it takes, with his skill set, he’s going to be a special player.”

----

I believe what you are seeing with Mantha is less about the work ethic and more about learning what it takes to be a successful NHL player. Something that every player has to learn but it takes time to get there.

Edited by Nightfall

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To think Mantha is a bust at this point is crazy. People see his point totals from his last year in junior (57-63-120 - 2.11 PTS/G) and then compare it to his first year pro (15-18-33 - 0.53 PTS/G) and think he's fallen off, which really isn't the case at all. A point every other game is very reasonable for a first year pro, the problem is, people had their expectations set way too high for this kid and expected him to rip up the AHL... some even expected him to rip up the NHL last year... Fact is, most every player that makes the jump from junior to pro go through a tough transition in their first year. There's not a doubt in my mind that Mantha will still become a legit top 6 winger in the NHL. I still believe he will be a 30-40 goal man in the NHL in 3-5 years...

I watch a lot of Griffins hockey and I'll be the first to admit that he doesn't skate his ass off every shift, but I think that's more to him picking his spots than it is his lack of work ethic. Pretty much every single player in the Detroit Red Wings organization is a two-way player, I honestly hope they don't make this kid change his game too much, taking away from his offensive output. Keep him on a line with Larkin for a full season next year, let them gain chemistry and watch them both explode offensively. Once they're ready to crack the NHL, add a player like Helm to their line, and you won't have to worry about Mantha not back-checking. Let the kid do what he does best, put the puck in the net...

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I just shake my head at any Wings fan who is writing Mantha off as a bust. Lol. The kid is 18 years old! He has a rare blend of size and skill that the Wings will be willing to be very patient with him. What is the rush? I mean as long as he shows improvement let him stay in Grand Rapids as long as needed. If he can develop properly, he's going to be a special player for the Wings. My money is on the kid being a first line scoring winger which we sorely need. It's worth waiting for.

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I just shake my head at any Wings fan who is writing Mantha off as a bust. Lol. The kid is 18 years old! He has a rare blend of size and skill that the Wings will be willing to be very patient with him. What is the rush? I mean as long as he shows improvement let him stay in Grand Rapids as long as needed. If he can develop properly, he's going to be a special player for the Wings. My money is on the kid being a first line scoring winger which we sorely need. It's worth waiting for.

He's 20. But your point is taken.

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While I really did enjoy reading and watching you cherry pick bad things that some scouts said about him, you didn't post a single link from his playing time in the AHL this season documenting that he was lacking the work ethic. I asked for a source or a link that showed that his work ethic on the ice this season was poor. You are talking like you have been watching him. As someone who has been watching him this season, I can tell you this isn't the case. The coaching staff continues to speak highly of him. Even the scouting reports from the very links you gave also speak highly of his work ethic (to which you omitted).

Mantha joined the professional ranks in 2014-15; skating for Red Wings' AHL affiliate Grand Rapids. Slowed by an injury that kept him from competing for an NHL spot in Detroit, he returned to the ice in November 2014. He has had the battles and struggles not uncommon for a first-year pro making the jump from junior hockey. Long-term he is expected to be a consistent scorer at the NHL level and a top-line forward.

Here is another one. This time from someone who is watching him play in the AHL this year.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/1/28/7918487/the-red-wings-and-the-fans-must-be-patient-with-anthony-mantha

Case in point, we must be patient with him. He's got the skill, he's got the work ethic, and he sure as hell has got the tools.. I have every reason to believe that he will pan out into a great hockey player at the professional level.

How about from the coach himself. Surely he would know better than us.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/13/manthas-going-to-be-a-great-player-says-detroits-ahl-coach/

“That’s just going to take time, but habits will change if work at them and willing to work hard at them and listen and get better. That’s what he’s certainly been willing to do.

“We know he can score goals,” said Blashill. “But he’s actually got an ability to make lots of plays with the puck in tight areas and I think when you’ve got that kind of stick, at that size level, when you can skate like that – its just a really good package.”

“When you care as much as he cares, as soon as he learns the daily attention to detail and the daily work ethic it takes, with his skill set, he’s going to be a special player.”

----

I believe what you are seeing with Mantha is less about the work ethic and more about learning what it takes to be a successful NHL player. Something that every player has to learn but it takes time to get there.

They have scouting reports on AHL players? Link? Source? I provided one from HF

And do you really expect Blashill to blast Mantha's work ethic? Or Holland? The only one being totally honest here (whether that honesty is as classy as the rest of the organization or not) is Devellano. He has been a big disappointment this year, plain and simple. Whether that's because of his work ethic or the vague scapegoat answer "struggles", it's still true.

I'm not cherry picking, pretty much every draft day scouting profile highlighted his coasting from time to time. That's not saying he doesn't have many other talents, but that's always been the knock on him. You act like you've never heard this before about him... I thought it was pretty well known.

I talk like I've been watching him because I've seen a lot of him in GR. For work I travel to Michigan, specifically GR, all the time. The only one I know who watches more games than me is Krsmith....

To think Mantha is a bust at this point is crazy. People see his point totals from his last year in junior (57-63-120 - 2.11 PTS/G) and then compare it to his first year pro (15-18-33 - 0.53 PTS/G) and think he's fallen off, which really isn't the case at all. A point every other game is very reasonable for a first year pro, the problem is, people had their expectations set way too high for this kid and expected him to rip up the AHL... some even expected him to rip up the NHL last year... Fact is, most every player that makes the jump from junior to pro go through a tough transition in their first year. There's not a doubt in my mind that Mantha will still become a legit top 6 winger in the NHL. I still believe he will be a 30-40 goal man in the NHL in 3-5 years...

I watch a lot of Griffins hockey and I'll be the first to admit that he doesn't skate his ass off every shift, but I think that's more to him picking his spots than it is his lack of work ethic. Pretty much every single player in the Detroit Red Wings organization is a two-way player, I honestly hope they don't make this kid change his game too much, taking away from his offensive output. Keep him on a line with Larkin for a full season next year, let them gain chemistry and watch them both explode offensively. Once they're ready to crack the NHL, add a player like Helm to their line, and you won't have to worry about Mantha not back-checking. Let the kid do what he does best, put the puck in the net...

Edited by number9

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While I really did enjoy reading and watching you cherry pick bad things that some scouts said about him, you didn't post a single link from his playing time in the AHL this season documenting that he was lacking the work ethic. I asked for a source or a link that showed that his work ethic on the ice this season was poor. You are talking like you have been watching him. As someone who has been watching him this season, I can tell you this isn't the case. The coaching staff continues to speak highly of him. Even the scouting reports from the very links you gave also speak highly of his work ethic (to which you omitted).

Mantha joined the professional ranks in 2014-15; skating for Red Wings' AHL affiliate Grand Rapids. Slowed by an injury that kept him from competing for an NHL spot in Detroit, he returned to the ice in November 2014. He has had the battles and struggles not uncommon for a first-year pro making the jump from junior hockey. Long-term he is expected to be a consistent scorer at the NHL level and a top-line forward.

Here is another one. This time from someone who is watching him play in the AHL this year.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/1/28/7918487/the-red-wings-and-the-fans-must-be-patient-with-anthony-mantha

Case in point, we must be patient with him. He's got the skill, he's got the work ethic, and he sure as hell has got the tools.. I have every reason to believe that he will pan out into a great hockey player at the professional level.

How about from the coach himself. Surely he would know better than us.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/13/manthas-going-to-be-a-great-player-says-detroits-ahl-coach/

Thats just going to take time, but habits will change if work at them and willing to work hard at them and listen and get better. Thats what hes certainly been willing to do.

We know he can score goals, said Blashill. But hes actually got an ability to make lots of plays with the puck in tight areas and I think when youve got that kind of stick, at that size level, when you can skate like that its just a really good package.

When you care as much as he cares, as soon as he learns the daily attention to detail and the daily work ethic it takes, with his skill set, hes going to be a special player.

----

I believe what you are seeing with Mantha is less about the work ethic and more about learning what it takes to be a successful NHL player. Something that every player has to learn but it takes time to get there.

Come on man, you asked him to provide you with a link on where scouts said that about him, and he did.

He didn't cherry pick those, that was the talk on him in his draft year, what he was supposedly going to work on, and what he himself said he wants to dispel during his last qmjhl season.

Once the player gets to grand rapids, we don't hear much about him unless he's doing amazing, or doing horrible.

If someone were to call out his work ethic halfway through the season, his broken leg could be pointed to as a reason he wasn't in game shape.

There's been lots of talk of him being a floater, that doesn't mean were calling him a bust, or giving up on him, its just how it is.

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He went from playing 2 minute shifts in juniors to 45 second shifts in the pros. You can't skate balls out for 2 minutes, you have to pick your spots. He has to learn to not do that. Once he does, and it can take awhile to break a bad habit like that, he should be fine. I still don't see him as a 40 goal scorer, or a guy who is going to be consistent from game to game, but I think at the end he'll be a 25-30 goal scorer. And be hated because he's perceived as a floater and he's not as good as some fans think he should be, like Franzen.

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I talk like I've been watching him because I've seen a lot of him in GR. For work I travel to Michigan, specifically GR, all the time. The only one I know who watches more games than me is Krsmith....

Number9 - what is your scouting report on him from watching him so much? I'd be interested to hear your assessment.

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Number9 - what is your scouting report on him from watching him so much? I'd be interested to hear your assessment.

All I'll say is... You know when a player scores a goal and they say "wow, he just never stopped moving his feet that entire shift, and got rewarded for it"

He's not that guy

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