Babcock granted permission to talk to other teams

[Rhah 195]

Overpaying has nothing to do with ensuring victory it's all about dollars and public perception that ownership is trying. They get instant ticket sale boost by getting Babcock that probably easily covers the premium salary

[FlashyG 1,799]

I actually heard today that there is some talk that Quenneville might be done in Chicago after this season. Possibly a mutual parting of ways like McLennan in San Jose.

I could definitely see Babcock taking the Chicago coaching position.

Hard to believe Coach Q would leave though, he's in a pretty good position.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FlashyG

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

When 5 of your 6 D-men are Quincey, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, and Zidlicky, I think you need to focus on defense.

That's the problem they aren't good defensively so why not put more focus on forechecking instead of backchecking they will be less relied upon defensively if we pressure the offensive zone more

Except we dont actually have a goal scorer on this team. Maybe Pulkkinen but he sucks at other aspects of the game.

We had 4 20+ goal scorers on a defensive minded team, don't know what you're talking about.

[number9 3,297]

That's the problem they aren't good defensively so why not put more focus on forechecking instead of backchecking they will be less relied upon defensively if we pressure the offensive zone more

We had 4 20+ goal scorers on a defensive minded team, don't know what you're talking about.

I see your point. But the forecheck is a risky game. if you commit to a heavy forecheck you run the risk of the other team getting more odd-man rushes. I think if we trusted our D more to handle those occurrences we could commit to a heavier forecheck.

EDIT: IMO everything flows from the back end. A solid D corp allows the forwards the freedom to play the way they want. Not vice-versa.

Edited May 12, 2015 by number9

[kliq 3,755]

I am not sure why some people are so mad at Babcock, the guy is doing nothing wrong. All he is doing is giving teams an opportunity to speak with him. I can pretty much guarantee that 9/10 people that post on LGW would be willing to hear an offer from a rival company (regardless of what job you do) if your current employer had absolutely no issue with it, and there was a ton of interest in you from other companies.

He is not acting cocky, he does not sound like he is lying to the the fans. He says he is exploring his options, and that's what he is doing.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I've had a really hard time getting intrigued by any of this..

I've came to the conclusion that.

I honestly don't care what happens.

The beauty of having been a fan of this franchise all my life has taught me that no matter what they do, they'll be competitive and most likely, at least make the playoffs.

Sure, some of you can give me one hundred reasons why this may be coming to an end, and some of them, I see some semblance of a cause for concern...

But they'll be fine either way.

I just really.

Truly.

Could not care less about this.

I have faith in the franchise, not a singular person in it.

The sum is greater than the parts.

Blahblahblah.

Edited May 12, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[FireCaptain 563]

It's official - Babcock to Toronto...

Manny Legace: “I think Babcock ends up in Toronto”

Wait, whudayamean Manny Legace's not a reliable source?

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/05/11/manny-legace-i-think-babcock-ends-up-in-toronto/

[RedWingsRox 614]

Babs would be a fool to take the $5m in Toronto ... if he can't deliver a Cup, which I don't think he can in Toronto, he'll be like any albatross player with a huge contract and cannot deliver. His legacy will go down the toilet if he goes to TO.

Edited May 12, 2015 by RedWingsRox

[kickazz 5,459]

That's the problem they aren't good defensively so why not put more focus on forechecking instead of backchecking they will be less relied upon defensively if we pressure the offensive zone more

We had 4 20+ goal scorers on a defensive minded team, don't know what you're talking about.

Contradicting yourself there?

Regardless. We aren't that defensive minded as compared to other teams. Just an example; our PK in the season was top 20 at best.

We actually don't have any pure goal scorers on the squad. Just a lot of playmakers and mid-tier goal scorers. When I say goal scorers I mean guys that can score 35+ goals on an 82 game season. Last time we had anyone like that was Franzen, Hossa and Z in his prime. Before that were guys like Shanny and Hull. By current standards I mean guys like Rick Nash or Stamkos. I think Tatar has potential to become a 35+ goal scorer though. He's in his second full season and had 29 goals. Quiet impressive.

Anyways back to topic at hand.

Edited May 12, 2015 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

Contradicting yourself there?

Regardless. We aren't that defensive minded as compared to other teams. Just an example; our PK in the season was top 20 at best.

We actually don't have any pure goal scorers on the squad. Just a lot of playmakers and mid-tier goal scorers. When I say goal scorers I mean guys that can score 35+ goals on an 82 game season. Last time we had anyone like that was Franzen, Hossa and Z in his prime. Before that were guys like Shanny and Hull. By current standards I mean guys like Rick Nash or Stamkos. I think Tatar has potential to become a 35+ goal scorer though. He's in his second full season and had 29 goals. Quiet impressive.

Anyways back to topic at hand.

I think Nyquist & Tatar will top the 35 goal mark.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Contradicting yourself there?

Regardless. We aren't that defensive minded as compared to other teams. Just an example; our PK in the season was top 20 at best.

We actually don't have any pure goal scorers on the squad. Just a lot of playmakers and mid-tier goal scorers. When I say goal scorers I mean guys that can score 35+ goals on an 82 game season. Last time we had anyone like that was Franzen, Hossa and Z in his prime. Before that were guys like Shanny and Hull. By current standards I mean guys like Rick Nash or Stamkos. I think Tatar has potential to become a 35+ goal scorer though. He's in his second full season and had 29 goals. Quiet impressive.

Anyways back to topic at hand.

Over the full season, maybe, I honestly don't know or feel like looking.

But at best, our pk was perfect

For what, like 15 games or something?

[kliq 3,755]

Over the full season, maybe, I honestly don't know or feel like looking.

But at best, our pk was perfect

For what, like 15 games or something?

We were ranked #17

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Contradicting yourself there?

Regardless. We aren't that defensive minded as compared to other teams. Just an example; our PK in the season was top 20 at best.

We actually don't have any pure goal scorers on the squad. Just a lot of playmakers and mid-tier goal scorers. When I say goal scorers I mean guys that can score 35+ goals on an 82 game season. Last time we had anyone like that was Franzen, Hossa and Z in his prime. Before that were guys like Shanny and Hull. By current standards I mean guys like Rick Nash or Stamkos. I think Tatar has potential to become a 35+ goal scorer though. He's in his second full season and had 29 goals. Quiet impressive.

Anyways back to topic at hand.

No I'm not contradicting myself. our d isn't very good defensively, but we have a defensive minded system. That's my problem with it

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I think the wings will still make the playoffs and maybe even flourish without Babcock, he is an amazing coach, but I think this team is too stagnant with him here, they're trying to be too defensive while not being very good defensively. They need to play to their current strength and that's scoring With defensive responsibility, but not sooooo much emphasis on defense

This team doesn't have a clear identity whatsoever. Babcock is coaching a style that he believes fits his team best and let's them win...there is a reason why the Wings had to play a defensive minded system against better teams because Babcock knew, a scoring-race would end bad for this team. The defense right now is not good enough to risk something like that plus the Wings lack a pure goal-scorer. Playing an offense minded style would be like trying to force a brick through a circle..

Babcock has been begging for help and Holland hasn't delivered so now he is looking at other options which by all means is his damn right. Do I thinkk he will end up in Toronto ? Nope but listening to a franchise that will increase his salary is never a bad option he can now go to Edmonton and tell them Toronto is offering X amounts of money...I want to coach McDavid but the offer needs to be close to that ==> a very good situation for him, same thing with Buffalo and Eichel.

Also the St. Louis job will open soon (if they don#t extend Hitchcock), Rutherford can bolster all he wants if Super Mario decides Babs is his coach they'll make a strong pitch for him and their 2 superstars are entering their prime...if Anaheim makes it past Chicago I think they'll keep Boudreaus.

[amato 3,210]

Babs would be a fool to take the $5m in Toronto ... if he can't deliver a Cup, which I don't think he can in Toronto, he'll be like any albatross player with a huge contract and cannot deliver. His legacy will go down the toilet if he goes to TO.

Sounds like he'd fit right in

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Babcock had an absolutely stacked team Canada and still played a defensive system. Don't tell me if we had more pure goal scorers he would change the system. In fact he would probably play those guys with 4th line minutes

[kipwinger 8,521]

Babcock had an absolutely stacked team Canada and still played a defensive system. Don't tell me if we had more pure goal scorers he would change the system. In fact he would probably play those guys with 4th line minutes

That's exactly right. He's not going to change up what makes him successful. And he shouldn't. The only question that people should be asking is, "does Mike Babcock's system give us the best chance to win given the personnel that we have?". I have my doubts, but I certainly don't expect him to go changing anything. His system was really a good fit back in the 2008 and 2009 time period, because his best players were both the best offensive AND defensive players in world...at the same time. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom could be as defensive as Babs wanted and still produce huge point totals. In 2008 Dats and Z were 90+ point players and Lidstrom scored 70 pts. And they were the best defensive players in the world at the same time.

He's got nobody like that now. So the offense isn't quite a free flowing.

Edited May 12, 2015 by kipwinger

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Babs would be a fool to take the $5m in Toronto ... if he can't deliver a Cup, which I don't think he can in Toronto, he'll be like any albatross player with a huge contract and cannot deliver. His legacy will go down the toilet if he goes to TO.

How does a coach's salary affect a team with a ton of cash? The only reason Clarkson and Phaneuf are issues is the cap.

[kipwinger 8,521]

How does a coach's salary affect a team with a ton of cash? The only reason Clarkson and Phaneuf are issues is the cap.

Because with that kind of salary comes a dramatic increase in expectations, accountability, scrutiny, and eventually criticism.

One of the many reasons that the Toronto fans, media, and organization turned on both Phaneuf and Clarkson is because they threw HUGE money at both of those guys, and when they didn't live up to the expectations that came with that money, they were ostracized.

Babcock would not be immune from the same treatment. Whatever team pays him that kind of money, be it us or Toronto or anybody else, is going to want a Cup. And if he can't deliver, there's going to be a problem.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Because with that kind of salary comes a dramatic increase in expectations, accountability, scrutiny, and eventually criticism.

One of the many reasons that the Toronto fans, media, and organization turned on both Phaneuf and Clarkson is because they threw HUGE money at both of those guys, and when they didn't live up to the expectations that came with that money, they were ostracized.

Babcock would not be immune from the same treatment. Whatever team pays him that kind of money, be it us or Toronto or anybody else, is going to want a Cup. And if he can't deliver, there's going to be a problem.

Except Toronto fans and some media hated the Clarkson and Phaneuf deals before they even happened. They were ostracized before they even signed the deals in Toronto.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Except Toronto fans and some media hated the Clarkson and Phaneuf deals before they even happened. They were ostracized before they even signed the deals in Toronto.

How does that negate anything I said? If anything, it's only more evidence that free spending, without any consideration of the opportunity cost of doing so, is absurd.

Any teams that offers Babcock 5 million dollars will ultimately eat every cent of that money. Not because he's a bad coach, but because he's not a perfect one either. And even with a top flight GM, organization, players, and support staff, he's managed to win exactly one. Why? Because they're hard to win.

Throwing 5 million dollars at a coach with the expectation that it will cover up for other organizational failures is short sighted and stupid. And Babs should beware anybody who offers that kind of money, because it's probably indicative of other tendencies to think in the short term, throw money at problems, fail to plan strategically, or have a long term path to success. In short, it's indicative of all the things that make the Toronto Maples Leafs a bunch of trashy losers.

Think about every story, or news article, or anecdote you've ever heard where somebody fixed a problem by throwing money at it. How does that work out for them? Every rich kid that got out of trouble because his dad could afford a good lawyer. How does that work out? Does that person learn anything, get straight, turn their life around, and succeed? No. It just ensures that the problem will keep happening.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Finally, someone who hasn't completely lost their mind regarding the Mike Babcock hype. This is a good article by the way, totally worth a read.

Tom Renney on Mike Babcock:

“I think he’s in an envious position because he’s so successful. I think if he’s not the best coach in the world he’s in the top three or four guys for sure,” said Renney.

“The one thing is, the organization has to be ready for Mike and Mike has to be ready for it.

“Mike has been at one place a long time. And there’s a certain template there that has stood the test of time for a reason. Quite honestly, that’s with or without Mike. What Mike did was fit into it very, very well and place his own set of demands onto that whole program and make it as successful as it’s ever been.”

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/05/10/babcok-renney-and-nicholson-where-theyre-at-now

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

How does that negate anything I said? If anything, it's only more evidence that free spending, without any consideration of the opportunity cost of doing so, is absurd.

Any teams that offers Babcock 5 million dollars will ultimately eat every cent of that money. Not because he's a bad coach, but because he's not a perfect one either. And even with a top flight GM, organization, players, and support staff, he's managed to win exactly one. Why? Because they're hard to win.

Throwing 5 million dollars at a coach with the expectation that it will cover up for other organizational failures is short sighted and stupid. And Babs should beware anybody who offers that kind of money, because it's probably indicative of other tendencies to think in the short term, throw money at problems, fail to plan strategically, or have a long term path to success. In short, it's indicative of all the things that make the Toronto Maples Leafs a bunch of trashy losers.

Think about every story, or news article, or anecdote you've ever heard where somebody fixed a problem by throwing money at it. How does that work out for them? Every rich kid that got out of trouble because his dad could afford a good lawyer. How does that work out? Does that person learn anything, get straight, turn their life around, and succeed? No. It just ensures that the problem will keep happening.

You said Toronto fans ostracized after the deals were made and they didn't perform which is not true.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Report: Chiarelli chats with Holland about Babcock, yet to request permission

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/763309

[RedWingsRox 614]

How does a coach's salary affect a team with a ton of cash? The only reason Clarkson and Phaneuf are issues is the cap.

Public opinion my friend. The higher a coach is paid, the higher the expectation, especially with all the publicity in this salary setting case. The fickle Leafs fan chanted "Fire Wilson" and Burke did like the next day.

Imagine if the $5-6M dollar man goes to TO and at the end of year 1, they go from 15th place to 12th ...

Report: Chiarelli chats with Holland about Babcock, yet to request permission

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/763309

I think this would be an interesting twist if Chiarelli doesn't drink the Babcock $5m/yr for 5 year koolaid and he doesn't request permission to interview Babcock and just go with McLellan instead. (Not a bad call on McLellan, solid coach for less) Imagine what that might do to Babs ego ... so no Crosby to coach, no McDavid ... you really want to go to Buffalo or the dysfunctional Leafs.