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HockeytownRules19

Babcock granted permission to talk to other teams

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So Babs initiated the conversation with San Jose ... do they still have to sign the 3rd round draft pick compensation letter? I'm guessing yes, how about we take Brent Burns instead for compensation ... haha.

Now the best coach in the world is asking for a chance at SJ ?? Seems bizarre to me. Boston didn't come knocking on his door with Julien sitting in limbo. Where those people are who said that 29 other teams would be willing to fire their coach for Babcock. Maybe one thing he is learning about himself is that he's not that the 'best coach' available. I think McLellan might have gotten more interest and he showcased himself well at the Worlds.

Edited by RedWingsRox

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Apparently, Mr. I is getting a bit tired of this 'playing the field'.

From mlive - http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/05/is_mike_babcock_willing_to_tak.html

Is Mike Babcock willing to take less to stay with Detroit Red Wings? Four other clubs in the mix

Four clubs have sought permission to speak with Babcock, according to a source – Toronto, Buffalo, St. Louis and San Jose.

The Philadelphia Flyers and Edmonton Oilers, other teams who were expected to make a pitch for Babcock, have not asked for permission to talk to him.

The Red Wings offered Babcock a four-year deal worth $3.25 million per season, a significant raise from his previous $2 million a year salary. It would make him the highest-paid coach in NHL history, slightly more than Chicago Blackhawks' Joel Quenneville, who will make $2.9 million next season and $3 million the year after and has two Stanley Cup championships on his resume, compared to one for Babcock.

But Babcock could get up to $5 million a season from Toronto or Buffalo. St. Louis and San Jose don't have the financial wherewithal to offer him that much.

Owner Mike Ilitch has a reputation for being loyal and treating players and management well, but some in the organization believe the process is getting on his nerves and aren't sure if he will budge on his offer.

Honestly I'm a little surprised the offer is that low from Mr. I given what the market was going to be. Even though it would make Babcock the highest paid coach in NHL history, I think that says more about how much NHL coaches are underpaid than anything else. Quenneville should be making at least as much as Bryan Bickell.

Illitch has hugely deep pockets and it's not like the money counts against the cap. Maybe this is more about trying to raise the bar for coaches salaries after all.

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I understand he's "Canada's coach" or whatever but it's definitely been a bizarre process, particularly him and Kenny sitting side by side for the TSN interview (Though the tracking of the Sabre's owners plane is pretty insane too). If he does stay in Detroit, I'm trying to figure out what piece of information Babcock needed to finalize this decision that he didn't already have, unless this really was about using other offers as leverage to get his offer to market value and the money being there from Holland was polite talk.

It just puts an odd tone to things if he stays. I guess the positive outlook is that he saw what was out there and decided the Red Wings were still the best, but the flipside is, why didn't you believe that all along?

If it were about how the kids played this season, he already has that info. And Holland can't make any promises about landing free agents. Or if he does they don't really mean much because it's something that isn't under his total control, and he hasn't had a great track record lately anyway.

I guess there's the possibility Babcock wonders if he's losing the room, which he seemed to mention in the interview. But again, going to other teams doesn't answer that.

I don't really follow the Griffins but for those who want Blashill, isn't there a great chance it's very much the same style? I thought part of the reasons the kids could come up to the Wings so seamlessly (other than over-ripeness) is the similarity of the systems.

They use the same system, but not the same "style", if that means anything. Line combinations, player usage, matchups, and zone emphasis (my term), can all make the product of the system look dramatically different. The fact that the run the same system really only affects where you should be in the ice at a particular time, and what you should be looking to do once you get there.

For instance, Mclellan and Babcock run very similar systems. The outcomes don't seem overly similar however (with the exception of the fact that they're both successful).

Edited by kipwinger

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I imagine they'll be seriously regretting the 5+ million dollars they gave him to do exactly that. You don't give somebody that much money to gradually improve your team and (if the stars align) perhaps bring you success. You don't pay forwards 7 million bucks for 50 points seasons either. If you give a guy (roughly) twice what the highest paid coach (Quenneville) is currently making, you're not expecting mediocre results.

I spoke about this the other day. If you offer 5 million bucks to Babcock, and he accepts it; you're both implicitly agreeing that he's A) going to give you the best possible chance to win a Cup, and B) that he'll deliver on that.

If he doesn't, then the entire process will be exposed for the hype driven debacle that it is.

Franchises, especially ones who've been losing for a long time, also throw money around to demonstrate to their fan base that they are dedicated to winning and will do what it takes. And to also give that fan base hope and renew their interest, especially their interest in spending money on tickets and merchandise.

To call it a hype driven debacle if Babcock doesn't win the Cup for some team isn't true. If a franchise like Toronto paid $5 million for Babcock and he even just gets them into the playoffs for a few years in a row, that deal more than pays for itself without sniffing the Cup.

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Franchises, especially ones who've been losing for a long time, also throw money around to demonstrate to their fan base that they are dedicated to winning and will do what it takes. And to also give that fan base hope and renew their interest, especially their interest in spending money on tickets and merchandise.

To call it a hype driven debacle if Babcock doesn't win the Cup for some team isn't true. If a franchise like Toronto paid $5 million for Babcock and he even just gets them into the playoffs for a few years in a row, that deal more than pays for itself without sniffing the Cup.

I'd certainly agree that throwing money around can (initally) legitimize a franchise. It's worked pretty well in Minnesota up to this point. But eventually you're going to have to deliver on those expectations. Suter and Parise flat out legitimized Minnesota's organization. Buying those guys instantly made them a credible player in the league's "power structure" (my term). But if that's all the signings ever accomplish, I think you'll have a hard time arguing that it was a success.

Toronto is already as high profile as it can possibly get. Everybody already knows they're willing to spend more money than anybody else to get what they want. The only thing keeping Toronto from credibility is the fact that they can't seem to win when it matters. If they give Babs 5+ million, they'll be expecting him to do exactly that. If he doesn't, I don't see how they can consider the deal a good one.

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This is so ridiculous.

What's everyone gonna think when the team he goes to doesn't have instant success?

This guy right here is not going to be surprised at all. This guy thinks there will be some buyers remorse, but if teams like Buffalo or Toronto are looking for immediate success, I think they're in for a rude awakening. ...and honestly, it depends on what "immediate success" means.

Do I think Babcock can get the Sabres out of the cellar next year? Sure. Will he get them to the playoffs? Unlikely.

Do I think Babcock can get Toronto to the playoffs next year? Sure, but if they had stuck with Carlyle they probably had a chance. Depending on other moves Shanny and Co. make, I think it's possible. Will he get them to the Cup? Hell no.

Neither of the above scenarios is a situation where a coach should be paid $5million/season. It's insane.

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From Sharp, Detroit Free Press - Seems Babcock isn't attracting that much interest

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/drew-sharp/2015/05/17/detroit-red-wings-mike-babcock-drew-sharp/27508683/

Mike Babcock sought a hotter-looking girlfriend.

Both parties paved the path for an amicable separation. But by all reported accounts, it doesn't appear Babcock attracted the interest from as many supermodels as he might have thought. That might improve the odds of Babcock inking a new contract with the Wings this week, but how can it not publicly look as though he is settling for the lesser of several competitive ills?

It's still stunning that Pittsburgh showed no interest in Babcock, considering Sidney Crosby's vast organizational influence and that the Penguins have the impactful stars Babcock seeks in Crosby and Evgeni Malkin, who are under 30. Boston apparently balked as well after missing the playoffs.
And then Montreal didn't hesitate endorsing head coach Michel Therrien's return soon after Tampa Bay eliminated the Habs in six games in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
The hottest-looking girls weren't interested.
:lol::lol:

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he is gone. when he starts asking other teams, it says a lot. he could also sit out a year, not like he needs the money. There have been Babs to U of M rumors for a couple of years as well.

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he is gone. when he starts asking other teams, it says a lot. he could also sit out a year, not like he needs the money. There have been Babs to U of M rumors for a couple of years as well.

Yah but of all teams, SJ ?? What do they have that the Wings don't have other than summer weather all year round? Their 2 stars are aging as well. If McLellan can't get more out of them, then I don't think Babcock can do much more. Babcock cannot put on goalie pads and play for the Sharks.

I honestly think they are further away from SC than Detroit and that joke of a GM, he wants to trade Wilson for Holland?

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I'd certainly agree that throwing money around can (initally) legitimize a franchise. It's worked pretty well in Minnesota up to this point. But eventually you're going to have to deliver on those expectations. Suter and Parise flat out legitimized Minnesota's organization. Buying those guys instantly made them a credible player in the league's "power structure" (my term). But if that's all the signings ever accomplish, I think you'll have a hard time arguing that it was a success.

Toronto is already as high profile as it can possibly get. Everybody already knows they're willing to spend more money than anybody else to get what they want. The only thing keeping Toronto from credibility is the fact that they can't seem to win when it matters. If they give Babs 5+ million, they'll be expecting him to do exactly that. If he doesn't, I don't see how they can consider the deal a good one.

I don't disagree. I wasn't so much arguing that teams throwing money around was a sound strategy from a hockey perspective, but that it can still be from an ownership perspective. And they definitely have limited shelf life if the team still isn't winning, though that shelf life can still last several seasons. I think the Suter and Parise signing has handicapped the Wild, but it's also gotten then them into the playoffs three years in a row, twice into the second round. From an owner's perspective I'm guessing that's paying off financially.

Basically I'm just saying "win when it matters" doesn't necessarily mean you have to win the Stanley Cup for it to be a financial success.

As for Toronto, who the hell knows how that will go. I'm still surprised they fired Carlyle. I'm sure Babcock would be paid extremely well to go there, and I can kinda understand the dream of turning that franchise around, but you have to believe you'll have the support you need and will be put in a position to succeed. I don't think you can say that about the Leafs organization, unless Shanny has some master plan he's not revealed yet.

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I don't disagree. I wasn't so much arguing that teams throwing money around was a sound strategy from a hockey perspective, but that it can still be from an ownership perspective. And they definitely have limited shelf life if the team still isn't winning, though that shelf life can still last several seasons. I think the Suter and Parise signing has handicapped the Wild, but it's also gotten then them into the playoffs three years in a row, twice into the second round. From an owner's perspective I'm guessing that's paying off financially.

Basically I'm just saying "win when it matters" doesn't necessarily mean you have to win the Stanley Cup for it to be a financial success.

As for Toronto, who the hell knows how that will go. I'm still surprised they fired Carlyle. I'm sure Babcock would be paid extremely well to go there, and I can kinda understand the dream of turning that franchise around, but you have to believe you'll have the support you need and will be put in a position to succeed. I don't think you can say that about the Leafs organization, unless Shanny has some master plan he's not revealed yet.

Ahhhh gotcha. Yeah, I'd agree that financially the investment would pay off pretty quickly. Hell, in Buffalo's case it would be financially successful if he never made the playoffs but increased attendance by 50% for every home game that he ever coached. I guess I was speaking more about the expectations that this kind of hiring brings with it.

I agree with your points regarding Minnesota and Toronto though.

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Ahhhh gotcha. Yeah, I'd agree that financially the investment would pay off pretty quickly. Hell, in Buffalo's case it would be financially successful if he never made the playoffs but increased attendance by 50% for every home game that he ever coached. I guess I was speaking more about the expectations that this kind of hiring brings with it.

I agree with your points regarding Minnesota and Toronto though.

I think that the expectation is not to be understated. Seriously, if Babs went to a place like Buffalo or Toronto and didn't bring the team to playoffs in 2 years ... it would be considered HUGE disappointment and failure all around, for owners, players, fans, and Babs himself. Money is good but at the end, it can't possibly be about the $$ ... not even for the owners.

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How could it be, he's scheduled to talk to SJ and St. Louis today?

But if so, really, Buffalo ... are they that much closer to the Cup than us? I guess it was about the $$, >$5M/yr.

Edited by RedWingsRox

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Matt Shepard ‏@ShepMatt 2m2 minutes ago

according to @pham1717 the Sabres have offered Babcock north of 5-mill

Writer who follows the Sabres... Talking to Shep right now... Wow, that's a lot of dough

That's insane for a coach. I want Blashill anyways, so take the money and run Babs.

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