Question for the Board regarding Babcock

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I am a HUGE Babcock fan and want him to return... but here's the question:

Let's say Babs comes into the meeting today with the Wings' Brass and says Buffalo is offering $5 million a year... Will you match it? If not I will head to Upstate NY.

What would you do? Match any offer or let him walk and bring Blashill up?

Just wondering, because it seems like a 50-50 split amongst people saying bring him back whatever the cost or just let him go.

To the original point, I think Babcock is one of the best coaches in the league. I don't really know enough about Blashill to comment on him as the alternative so it's hard to say. I certainly don't care about the money situation. It's not coming out of my pocket and it doesn't count against the cap.

If Babcock stayed I wouldn't be upset. I'd like to see what he does as the young guys continue to develop and hopefully Kenny makes some moves in the offseason to bolster a blueline that desperately needs it.

But there's also a part of me that thinks it would be fun to have a new coach. Maybe the message has gotten stale, even with all the new assistants. 10 years is a long time. They could get some new blood in the organization that would maybe give the Wings that "new coach" bump for a season or two while Dats and Z are still producing. Add a good move by Kenny to that new energy and it might be enough to get the Wings over the hump, even if only short term.

It comes down to if Blashill (or whoever else replaces Babcock) is a better fit for this team right now. And frankly I have no idea. It could end up a huge success or a disaster. With Babs it won't be a disaster but likely more of an incremental change.

[kipwinger 8,496]

You believe for one second that would stop media speculation? ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Why not? He said "I won't negotiate a contract during the season" and nobody asked him about it all year long.

Why couldn't he have done the same thing after the season was over?

With Ken Holland by his side. But it's just Babcock wanting this? He could've done it because Holland asked him to. He could've done it as a favor to Dreger. He could've done it because he really loves all this attention. No one has any actual idea what his motivations are, so who cares?

And no, that one sentence would have done little to end this crap. There was tons of media coverage and speculation before that TSN interview. If he said he doesn't negotiate publicly, it would just be the same endless speculation we're having now.

Honestly I'm surprised at the amount of coverage this whole thing is getting but as an American not living in the Detroit area, I didn't realize how big Canada's fixation on him would be after the Gold medal wins.

Well I certainly agree with this. It's insane. I think part of the reason it bothers me so much is because of how omnipresent the whole thing is. I don't remember any instance in recent memory when there has been this much hype or speculation regarding where someone would end up.

Maybe Parise and Suter, but even they declined to talk about the process while it was going on.

[marcaractac 3,961]

Why not? He said "I won't negotiate a contract during the season" and nobody asked him about it all year long.

Why couldn't he have done the same thing after the season was over?

That's not how media works. He could have come out and said "I will not coach for a Canadian team" at the start of the season, and the Canadian media would still make everything about him. It's just how they are.

[kipwinger 8,496]

That's not how media works. He could have come out and said "I will not coach for a Canadian team" at the start of the season, and the Canadian media would still make everything about him. It's just how they are.

To a certain extent the media is going to speculate, that's what they do. My biggest beef with Babs is that everything he's done has fueled that speculation, to the point that it has become completely asinine.

When the Wings were eliminated (on April 29th) he said he'd make his decision in "10 days or so". That was 20 days ago. He said he didn't want to be part of a rebuild and then visited Toronto and Buffalo. He said it wasn't about the money and now we're hearing that it's down to Detroit and Buffalo (the team with the least future and the most money). He said his family's wishes were more important than his, and then publicly stated that his family wanted to stay, and then called San Jose himself to get an interview. He went on the biggest hockey media outlet in the world, with their most high profile contributor, to discuss his "decision process" and "what he learned".

If you think, for even one second, that this is all being thrust on him from outside you're nuts. Don't want all the attention? Don't do interviews. Don't want people to speculate? Make your actions consistent with your words.

[55fan 5,133]

He's probably trying to get Holland to throw in a NMC or NTC. You know how hard it is to get one of those out of Holland.

Personally, I think he was waiting until he had all of the information after meeting with all prospective teams, waiting until his whole family was together, and waiting until there was a firm, final decision that they could all live with.

Any musings during this time have just been about what was on his mind at the moment, and if you've ever made a decision like this, you know how you tend to be thinking about one angle and leaning to one side one day only to have it shift the next. I do that ordering pizza.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

To a certain extent the media is going to speculate, that's what they do. My biggest beef with Babs is that everything he's done has fueled that speculation, to the point that it has become completely asinine.

When the Wings were eliminated (on April 29th) he said he'd make his decision in "10 days or so". That was 20 days ago.

All I have heard was the May 20th deadline that he gave in the TSN interview. At the elimination interview I think he said he would talk to Holland and his family in the next few days. That was before Holland decided to let other teams talk to him. That obviously extends the process. He could have waited for free agency and that would have been much longer, of course.

He said he didn't want to be part of a rebuild and then visited Toronto and Buffalo.

Hearing offers is different than following through. Going to Toronto and Buffalo would be part of finding out options and negotiating since those large offers would help his leverage with any other team

He said it wasn't about the money and now we're hearing that it's down to Detroit and Buffalo (the team with the least future and the most money).

From the beginning of this he said money "was part" of the decision. He said specifically in the TSN interview that he wanted to "be paid." (maybe specific wording was get paid)

He said his family's wishes were more important than his, and then publicly stated that his family wanted to stay, and then called San Jose himself to get an interview.

Don't think he ever said his family's wishes were "more important". He did say that his family's roots in Detroit were important.

He went on the biggest hockey media outlet in the world, with their most high profile contributor, to discuss his "decision process" and "what he learned".

If you think, for even one second, that this is all being thrust on him from outside you're nuts. Don't want all the attention? Don't do interviews. Don't want people to speculate? Make your actions consistent with your words.

I think you've conflated a lot of people's speculation with what Babcock actually said.

The new(ish) 24 hours Media will speculate. It is what they do. Look at Flight MH370. Less information actually leads to more speculation often. I'll bet that the TSN interview was actually an ill-advised attempt to curb some of the speculation by saying what he's actually thinking.

Edited May 19, 2015 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[marcaractac 3,961]

To a certain extent the media is going to speculate, that's what they do. My biggest beef with Babs is that everything he's done has fueled that speculation, to the point that it has become completely asinine.

When the Wings were eliminated (on April 29th) he said he'd make his decision in "10 days or so". That was 20 days ago. He said he didn't want to be part of a rebuild and then visited Toronto and Buffalo. He said it wasn't about the money and now we're hearing that it's down to Detroit and Buffalo (the team with the least future and the most money). He said his family's wishes were more important than his, and then publicly stated that his family wanted to stay, and then called San Jose himself to get an interview. He went on the biggest hockey media outlet in the world, with their most high profile contributor, to discuss his "decision process" and "what he learned".

If you think, for even one second, that this is all being thrust on him from outside you're nuts. Don't want all the attention? Don't do interviews. Don't want people to speculate? Make your actions consistent with your words.

He said no talking contract until after the season. Media talks about him all season long anyway. He spent more time telling media he isn't going to talk about it than anything, and it did not stop the speculation and it did not stop them from asking him about it. Didn't matter what he said. His contract status and success was always gonna drum up media hype. If you think this is bad, just wait and see what happens if Crosby ever goes through this.

And yes, he said he would make a decision in 10 days or so. Then he and Holland decided on the Grand Rapids road trip, and the trip to the World Championships. s*** happens. People got pissed off when Parise and Suter didn't sign with a team on July 1st as well. As if they were obligated to make a decision that day to please fans. I think it is foolish that people allow media influence to get to them like this. It's not Babs fault the media won't stop, just like it wasn't Parise or Suter's a couple years back.

[kipwinger 8,496]

He said no talking contract until after the season. Media talks about him all season long anyway. He spent more time telling media he isn't going to talk about it than anything, and it did not stop the speculation and it did not stop them from asking him about it. Didn't matter what he said. His contract status and success was always gonna drum up media hype. If you think this is bad, just wait and see what happens if Crosby ever goes through this.

And yes, he said he would make a decision in 10 days or so. Then he and Holland decided on the Grand Rapids road trip, and the trip to the World Championships. s*** happens. People got pissed off when Parise and Suter didn't sign with a team on July 1st as well. As if they were obligated to make a decision that day to please fans. I think it is foolish that people allow media influence to get to them like this. It's not Babs fault the media won't stop, just like it wasn't Parise or Suter's a couple years back.

Parise and Suter didn't sit down with Darren Dreger during the middle of the process to explain their thought process, and talk about how much they've learned. Mike Babcock did.

[gcom007 1,465]

Can someone fix the broken record?

[kipwinger 8,496]

Can someone fix the broken record?

I'm not really sure why you're so upset about people commenting on what is, without question, the biggest story in hockey right now.

Seriously what's the problem? You just don't like that I'm talking about Babcock in two Babcock related threads? Or you don't like that I feel differently about it than you obviously do?

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm not really sure why you're so upset about people commenting on what is, without question, the biggest story in hockey right now.

Seriously what's the problem? You just don't like that I'm talking about Babcock in two Babcock related threads? Or you don't like that I feel differently about it than you obviously do?

I don't mind the discussion at all. What I think is ridiculous is people acting like Babcock himself has somehow directed the little (and I mean "little" literally, this is hockey news/media we're talking about here...) circus in the press surrounding the decision. The guy did one sit-down interview with one of the top hockey media guys and said all the right things no matter what his decision ends up being, in my mind doing so to try to be open and honest about the process, because so many are fascinated by it, for whatever the reason. I don't see that as a big deal at all, and I think he did it to try to quell some of the more ridiculous reporting going on. And as said in the other thread, I don't think he's dragged out the situation at all. Quite the opposite in fact, and he's fully entitled to drag it out a lot longer, but he isn't. This is a good thing for all parties involved, and demonstrative of the fact that again, he's not really dragging this out.

I can totally respect and understand why you believe him to be overrated, honestly. What I think is absurd is that you and so many others are trampling him for the way this whole situation has gone down. He's kept to a relatively tight timetable, been as open as reasonably possible in the right setting, and has said nothing that one should reasonably take as inflammatory. You want a new coach? Fine. I get why you might, even while I think it'd be great to keep him. But most everything else being bandied about by you and many others I view as nothing short of silliness.

Edited May 19, 2015 by gcom007

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Aren't we ignoring the bull in the glass house regarding the Babcock coaching decision? I think Babs and many others with him are doubtful that the Red Wings will make the playoffs next season.

Moving out and letting Blashill handle that, in a sense acts as a dampener on that predicament. It Has to factor in for atleast 2 parties involved, namely Babcock and Ken Holland.

Babs sure as hell does not want that on his resumé. He'd rather coach the Leafs, which truly must be hopeless.

All that tells me is Don Cherry was right when he said once when babs goes to another team and is exposed on how bad he really is. And that he has been playing on the coat tails of Bowmans players this whole time. I am starting to lean that way with him as well.

I'm not really sure why you're so upset about people commenting on what is, without question, the biggest story in hockey right now.

Seriously what's the problem? You just don't like that I'm talking about Babcock in two Babcock related threads? Or you don't like that I feel differently about it than you obviously do?

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

I'm not really sure why you're so upset about people commenting on what is, without question, the biggest story in hockey right now.

Seriously what's the problem? You just don't like that I'm talking about Babcock in two Babcock related threads? Or you don't like that I feel differently about it than you obviously do?

I'm moved by your passion on this topic. I hope Babcock takes another three weeks deciding, with Holland acting as puppy dog.

[kipwinger 8,496]

I don't mind the discussion at all. What I think is ridiculous is people acting like Babcock himself has somehow directed the little (and I mean "little" literally, this is hockey news/media we're talking about here...) circus in the press surrounding the decision. The guy did one sit-down interview with one of the top hockey media guys and said all the right things no matter what his decision ends up being, in my mind doing so to try to be open and honest about the process, because so many are fascinated by it, for whatever the reason. I don't see that as a big deal at all, and I think he did it to try to quell some of the more ridiculous reporting going on. And as said in the other thread, I don't think he's dragged out the situation at all. Quite the opposite in fact, and he's fully entitled to drag it out a lot longer, but he isn't. This is a good thing for all parties involved, and demonstrative of the fact that again, he's not really dragging this out.

I can totally respect and understand why you believe him to be overrated, honestly. What I think is absurd is that you and so many others are trampling him for the way this whole situation has gone down. He's kept to a relatively tight timetable, been as open as reasonably possible in the right setting, and has said nothing that one should reasonably take as inflammatory. You want a new coach? Fine. I get why you might, even while I think it'd be great to keep him. But most everything else being bandied about by you and many others I view as nothing short of silliness.

You're welcome to think that way. But it might be better, in the future, to articulate it like that rather than go overboard like you did in your other post and start personally attacking people. I don't think you're a ludite for giving Babcock the benefit of the doubt, but for some reason you saw fit to get personal with the folks you disagreed with. Disagree with me all you want, but don't call names and be rude about it.

[gcom007 1,465]

You're welcome to think that way. But it might be better, in the future, to articulate it like that rather than go overboard like you did in your other post and start personally attacking people. I don't think you're a ludite for giving Babcock the benefit of the doubt, but for some reason you saw fit to get personal with the folks you disagreed with. Disagree with me all you want, but don't call names and be rude about it.

What's amusing is that I didn't address anyone directly, didn't quote anyone, and spoke in generalities entirely. What names did I call you specifically again? You're clearly one of the most vocal, but you're hardly the only one in my estimation going off the deep end on this matter.

[kipwinger 8,496]

What's amusing is that I didn't address anyone directly, didn't quote anyone, and spoke in generalities entirely. What names did I call you specifically again? You're clearly one of the most vocal, but you're hardly the only one in my estimation going off the deep end on this matter.

That obscures the fact that you shouldn't call ANYOnE who disagrees with you a desperate, whining, pissing, moaning, crybaby. Not just me.

I'm not sure why you think its OK just because you didn't address people personally. It breaks any number of rules around here, and also just drags down the conversation in general.

Just don't call people names. That shouldn't be amusing, it should be standard practice.

Edited May 19, 2015 by kipwinger

[RedWingsRox 614]

Did we really need 2 threads on Babcock? Isn't one enough?

[marcaractac 3,961]

Not to mention this one has turned into an argument and has nothing to do with Babs anymore

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

Did we really need 2 threads on Babcock? Isn't one enough?

One for Babcock speculation and one for Babcock landing spot analysis. We need one for Babcock conjecture.

[pondrocket 35]

I like Babcock. I think he has achieved allot with some below average teams. My impression (just reading all the same stuff everybody else does) is that he would really like to stay, but just doesn't see the team as competitive as it needs to be. If I am being honest with myself I don't think this team is worthy of a top coach. Too many holes, Hank & Pav are just too old. It is the end of a great era. I have my doubts but I am hopeful that Holland can add a couple of the right D & a few forwards within the next three years.

At the end of the day Babs will have to move on if he wants a crack at a team that isn't going to limp into the 1st round and actually has a shot.

[number9 3,297]

I like Babcock. I think he has achieved allot with some below average teams. My impression (just reading all the same stuff everybody else does) is that he would really like to stay, but just doesn't see the team as competitive as it needs to be. If I am being honest with myself I don't think this team is worthy of a top coach. Too many holes, Hank & Pav are just too old. It is the end of a great era. I have my doubts but I am hopeful that Holland can add a couple of the right D & a few forwards within the next three years.

At the end of the day Babs will have to move on if he wants a crack at a team that isn't going to limp into the 1st round and actually has a shot.

So the Buffalo Sabres?

lol

[pondrocket 35]

So the Buffalo Sabres?

lol

I get it, Buffalo is what it is. I would look at Montreal. But if it is between Detroit & Buffalo & I am considering the next 5 years. Buffalo has allot of picks & some talent youth already. Detroit has a little, NO D, and Hank & Pav are just plain old.

[number9 3,297]

I get it, Buffalo is what it is. I would look at Montreal. But if it is between Detroit & Buffalo & I am considering the next 5 years. Buffalo has allot of picks & some talent youth already. Detroit has a little, NO D, and Hank & Pav are just plain old.

I like Babcock. I think he has achieved allot with some below average teams. My impression (just reading all the same stuff everybody else does) is that he would really like to stay, but just doesn't see the team as competitive as it needs to be. If I am being honest with myself I don't think this team is worthy of a top coach. Too many holes, Hank & Pav are just too old. It is the end of a great era. I have my doubts but I am hopeful that Holland can add a couple of the right D & a few forwards within the next three years.

At the end of the day Babs will have to move on if he wants a crack at a team that isn't going to limp into the 1st round and actually has a shot.

Lol

Grass is always greener right? Did you also put money on the Oilers after Hall? Hopkins? Yakupov? No no, I bet McDavid is the real key to success right?

[evilmrt 636]

All that tells me is Don Cherry was right when he said once when babs goes to another team and is exposed on how bad he really is.

Ok...where is the video or quote for this one???

[marcaractac 3,961]

Ok...where is the video or quote for this one???

It doesn't exist. Cherry said Babs should stay, but the rest is made up.