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Sizemore3

The return of The Mule?

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I feel like I'm one of about three people who actually stick up for him every time he comes up.

He still scores more than Jurco.

Which kinda seems like his replacement.

Blash should teach Jurco to be a center too.

Franzen was actually really damn useful.

Didn't he used to penalty kill too?

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter

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I feel like I'm one of about three people who actually stick up for him every time he comes up.

He still scores more than Jurco.

Which kinda seems like his replacement.

Blash should teach Jurco to be a center too.

Franzen was actually really damn useful.

Didn't he used to penalty kill too?

He occasionally was used on the PK. But not regularly.

He scored 22 points in 33 games last year prior to his injury. He's a useful player. No doubt.

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Muhammad Ali was the greatest of them all. But even he was only brain, skull and skin. Everyone knew Ali should have called it quits when he was showing decline in health, specifically brain health. But he didn't call it quits. Instead he fought a few more times. Why not? the fans wanted him back, he loved the sport.

Many Franzen fans would love to have him back. Does he have the right to make the decision just like Muhammad Ali did? Sure. Will he? We shall find out.

Answer to original poster. Nobody has a f****** clue mate.

Edited by kickazz

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I feel like I'm one of about three people who actually stick up for him every time he comes up.

He still scores more than Jurco.

Which kinda seems like his replacement.

Blash should teach Jurco to be a center too.

Franzen was actually really damn useful.

Didn't he used to penalty kill too?

Its kind of sad to see the way he is treated by many on this board. Sure the guy is streaky, but some people make him out to be the worst forward to ever play the game. If he didnt have his concussion issues, I would love to have him back in this lineup.

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Kip, no new leaf per say, but when I realized that it was head issues due to concussions a couple years back, I kind of let up on him a bit. I was really hard on the guy before that. I was really only hard on him the last couple of seasons because he kept wanting to play when he had no business (health-wise) being on the ice. My buddy Dan skates with a couple of the trainer's for the wings in a pick up hockey league and he told me a couple a seasons ago that they believe it was head issues. We all pretty much figured that as well, but me personally, I thought at first that it was head issues in the sense that he really lost interest in the game. But when it came out that it was concussion issues, I kinda backed off. I do wish he could beat this and go back to 25-30 goals again, but history shows that it just doesn't ever work out that way...


I am sure he will go to training camp with full intentions to be playing, I just hope he doesn't hinder his health or the team in the process. He will need to make a decision soon enough so the Wings aren't exposing good young talent to the waiver wire to save him a roster spot.

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It's amazing how much disdain this guy generated for some, and now that he's hurt and possibly retiring it's magically disappeared.

Don't worry guys, he'll come back so we can discuss buying him out again

There's a major distinction between criticizing someone as a player and not wanting them to end up braindead.

There's guys on other teams that I hate with a passion but if they take a puck to the face, I'm not cheering. I'm hoping they're ok. (And I don't even hate Franzen but he's a frustrating player at times).

I hope Franzen stays on LTIR. And it has nothing to do with his play on the ice.

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Well you weren't the one regularly insinuating that Franzen was a homosexual malingerer either. But that didn't stop plenty of people from doing so.

Franzen, more than any other player on our team, has been singled out for personal criticisms which have nothing whatsoever to do with his play on the ice. It's odd to see those very same folks showing concern for his personal well being now.

Anybody can be criticized (justifiably) for their play. But much of the Franzen hate has gone WAY beyond level headed scrutiny.

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Well you weren't the one regularly insinuating that Franzen was a homosexual malingerer either. But that didn't stop plenty of people from doing so.

Franzen, more than any other player on our team, has been singled out for personal criticisms which have nothing whatsoever to do with his play on the ice. It's odd to see those very same folks showing concern for his personal well being now.

Anybody can be criticized (justifiably) for their play. But much of the Franzen hate has gone WAY beyond level headed scrutiny.

True. But I think that starts to happen to a degree with anyone who's become a scapegoat here. Ericsson, Cleary, even Howard the second half of the season. People were acting like Clearly's objective was to singlehandedly ruin the Red Wings and that he was a greedy, terrible person.

Franzen has just been a scapegoat for a lot longer than most so the bashing has gone further afield, though honestly I don't remember a ton of criticism's that involved his personal life. Though there have been plenty of childish insults.

Sometimes as a rabid hockey fan we forget these guys are real people.

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I guess my only point is that it's odd to see the very same people who had most vociferously attacked Franzen, now showing concern. However, Leftwinger did a pretty good job of articulating his feelings on the matter above. And he was definitely one of the folks I'm talking about.

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I wish Franzen well, and hope he can come back to play with Sheahan on our 3rd line. But if he comes back, its only a matter of time before people revert back to saying the outlandish things they said about the guy, and I'm probably one of them. This is because polarizing players have a way of garnering such a reaction... If Franzen wasn't such a skilled player, and history didn't provide a multitude of statistically great stretches of play (especially in the playoffs), we wouldn't react the way we do if/when he didn't show up for 2 weeks.

If he was a role player - there wouldn't be a "Johan Franzen is lazy and he sucks" thread on this website.

Phil Kessel is one of the most criticized forwards in all of hockey - and take a look at his numbers, a lot better than Franzen's? This is because he has demonstrated the ability to play at a high level, and usually effort is the only reason he doesn't. This is what makes people mad. Johan Franzen is no different - head injuries or not.

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I wish Franzen well, and hope he can come back to play with Sheahan on our 3rd line. But if he comes back, its only a matter of time before people revert back to saying the outlandish things they said about the guy, and I'm probably one of them. This is because polarizing players have a way of garnering such a reaction... If Franzen wasn't such a skilled player, and history didn't provide a multitude of statistically great stretches of play (especially in the playoffs), we wouldn't react the way we do if/when he didn't show up for 2 weeks.

If he was a role player - there wouldn't be a "Johan Franzen is lazy and he sucks" thread on this website.

Phil Kessel is one of the most criticized forwards in all of hockey - and take a look at his numbers, a lot better than Franzen's? This is because he has demonstrated the ability to play at a high level, and usually effort is the only reason he doesn't. This is what makes people mad. Johan Franzen is no different - head injuries or not.

So because he doesn't play up to his potential we should all expect, and participate, in the pejorative speculation about his sexuality, mental health issues, and criminality?

He's been accused of everything from being a homosexual to intentionally defrauding the Wings by faking the severity of his injury. It's over the top. And the fact that he's "polarizing" is no excuse.

Wings fans LOVE to go on and on about how classy they are. And how loutish and ignorant other teams' fans are. But in the case of Johan Franzen, quite a lot of Wings fans have been completely and totally trashy.

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lol Kipwinger... I played college hockey and all of the things you mentioned are called chirps. They happen every game to almost every player in every stadium. No-one is immune to it and none of it should be taken as personal insult - and it almost never is. I have been called much worse on the ice than whatever Johan Franzen has been called in this thread, by some people who I actually call friends today. I'm not saying its classy, but I don't think the fans on this site are truly questioning his sexuality, mental health, or criminality,

The reason I made the comment is because people (unfortunately) tend to use those same expressions in these forums (probably not in good taste) out of frustration when he isn't producing.. I cant count how many times I've screamed at my TV with a lot worse to say about Franzen than what you just mentioned, because his struggles always come down to effort - and this is hockey for f*** sake.

If he wasn't capable of so much more - people wouldn't be as harsh on him. Sorry, if 6'3 - 222 LB Johan Franzen played with even half the intensity as a Justin Abdelkader, Darren Helm, or Luke Glendenning (players who are all more effective with a fraction of the skillset) people wouldn't be so harsh on him.

If people were calling him a homosexual (as you say) after he scored a hat-trick and actually plays with some heart - I would have a much different opinion.

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Guest sexywingsfan

I hope he's not coming back,have to stay home and make one other baby

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lol Kipwinger... I played college hockey and all of the things you mentioned are called chirps. They happen every game to almost every player in every stadium. No-one is immune to it and none of it should be taken as personal insult - and it almost never is. I have been called much worse on the ice than whatever Johan Franzen has been called in this thread, by some people who I actually call friends today. I'm not saying its classy, but I don't think the fans on this site are truly questioning his sexuality, mental health, or criminality,

The reason I made the comment is because people (unfortunately) tend to use those same expressions in these forums (probably not in good taste) out of frustration when he isn't producing.. I cant count how many times I've screamed at my TV with a lot worse to say about Franzen than what you just mentioned, because his struggles always come down to effort - and this is hockey for f*** sake.

If he wasn't capable of so much more - people wouldn't be as harsh on him. Sorry, if 6'3 - 222 LB Johan Franzen played with even half the intensity as a Justin Abdelkader, Darren Helm, or Luke Glendenning (players who are all more effective with a fraction of the skillset) people wouldn't be so harsh on him.

If people were calling him a homosexual (as you say) after he scored a hat-trick and actually plays with some heart - I would have a much different opinion.

I think you missed some pretty relevant contextual information. I'm talking about the fans, on this site, saying those things about him. Not other players, on the ice.

I think it's trashy for fans to attack the guy personally, and then pretend to have sincere concern for his person later on. Regardless of his work ethic.

I don't care what other players say to him on the ice.

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Why risk another concussion? The chances multiply greatly with each sub sequential injury? Not worth the getting your brains scrambled; stay home with the family. Thanx for the goals.

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Kipwinger -

This is a hockey website, where people talk about hockey. If Johan Franzen isn't doing his job, the hockey fans on this hockey website may use hockey language to express themselves. It may be vulgar - but its nothing personal.

Although it may look hypocritical, you can't fault the fans for eventually supporting him (on a personal level) considering what's currently happening to athletes who suffer from chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Franzen's situation is more important than hockey, and I think the people who realize that have changed tune quite a bit.

That being said - if the doctors say Franzen can go, its ultimately his decision to return to the ice. If he does, people maintain the right to criticize him if he isn't playing well. That's what $43,500,000 gets you.

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A homosexual? Really? Does anyone honestly think that allegation was made with any sincerity? I've questioned his effort...I've questioned his willingness to play up to his weight and force the issue physically. Those are comments on his job performance...they have nothing to do with any level of personal animosity towards him. I don't know Franzen personally..I'm willing to be no one here does. There's no basis for any personal animus. Therefore, it's entirely consistent to look at him as a person rather than a hockey player and voice some concerns about the overall condition of his melon. He's had a number of concussions and missed large chunks of the last two years because of them with last year's injury being worse than the one from the previous year.

Of course people are worried about him as a human being. He seems to be risking an awful lot.

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Kipwinger -

This is a hockey website, where people talk about hockey. If Johan Franzen isn't doing his job, the hockey fans on this hockey website may use hockey language to express themselves. It may be vulgar - but its nothing personal.

Although it may look hypocritical, you can't fault the fans for eventually supporting him (on a personal level) considering what's currently happening to athletes who suffer from chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Franzen's situation is more important than hockey, and I think the people who realize that have changed tune quite a bit.

That being said - if the doctors say Franzen can go, its ultimately his decision to return to the ice. If he does, people maintain the right to criticize him if he isn't playing well. That's what $43,500,000 gets you.

I understand shouting at the TV in the privacy of your home when a player doesn't perform. Anything goes.

I understand ranting among friends in a private setting when a player doesn't perform. Anything goes.

Taking the time to compose and post a message calling a player a "homosexual" on a message board where strangers, children, and quite possibly actual homosexuals can visit is oafish and dull. Use your adult words. Act like a decent human being. Slurs are best left to middle school boys who think using "naughty" words makes them cool.

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There really isn't any reason to take this discussion too far afield. Anybody who's been around LGW for a while knows the kinds of reactions that Franzen has received around here. And the criticisms have definitely gone pretty far beyond observations of his play.

If people genuinely feel bad for him, that's fine. Who am I to say how you should feel about the guy? I was just making an observation that there were an awful lot of people who had nothing good to say about him and wanted him gone at any cost. Many went so far as to feminize his name (because chicks are lame bro! durrrrrr). And some of those same people now act like they really give a crap about the guy...so long as he still leaves, of course.

I wish the guy all the good health in the world. And if he wants to continue playing hockey, or trying to play hockey, who the hell am I to wish otherwise? He and his doctors certainly know better than I do whether he's subjecting himself to anything unwise. And he and his family are far more capable of weighing the risks and rewards of playing than any of us.

Edited by kipwinger

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I've called him Franzy the panzy...softer than ice cream, sweeter than a Cinnibon..but that's a commentary on his style of play. That doesn't mean I want to see him with a cranium full of sawdust because he took too many blows to the head. For Pete's sake, the man had a subdural hematoma a few years back.. I think he'd be foolish to come back and risk having his brain permanently scrambled by the next big hit he takes

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