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Sizemore3

The return of The Mule?

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So for all you guys who are so concerned for Franzen's health...If doctors declare him healthy enough to return and claim he's at no more risk of serious injury than many players in the league...You'll fully support him as a player?

Or are you all just hiding behind a shroud of caring?

I'm guessing this isn't directed to me as I am not one to put down Franzen, but here are my thoughts. From my understanding, doctors will give Franzen the okay if he is fully recovered from his concussion. It is also my understanding that with every concussion you get, you are more likely to get another one if you receive another blow to the head or even body. Based on the number of concussions he has had, and based on the fact that it appears every year he is missing more and more time, and from what I read his symptoms are getting worse and worse (this could be wrong) I hope he never plays again for his own health.

If it was told to me that Franzen would never have another concussion again with 100% certainty, I would gladly have him back in our lineup. Him at 100% is exactly the kind of player we need.

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So for all you guys who are so concerned for Franzen's health...If doctors declare him healthy enough to return and claim he's at no more risk of serious injury than many players in the league...You'll fully support him as a player?

Or are you all just hiding behind a shroud of caring?

I'm typically hiding behind a shroud of booziness, but yes, if doctors declare him healthy I want him back on the ice.

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I'm guessing this isn't directed to me as I am not one to put down Franzen, but here are my thoughts. From my understanding, doctors will give Franzen the okay if he is fully recovered from his concussion. It is also my understanding that with every concussion you get, you are more likely to get another one if you receive another blow to the head or even body. Based on the number of concussions he has had, and based on the fact that it appears every year he is missing more and more time, and from what I read his symptoms are getting worse and worse (this could be wrong) I hope he never plays again for his own health.

If it was told to me that Franzen would never have another concussion again with 100% certainty, I would gladly have him back in our lineup. Him at 100% is exactly the kind of player we need.

As time has gone on, I've realized that I really would like him back on the team. He has frustrating tendencies, sure, but he's still good for some goals, and when he heats up, he's a dominant scorer. Given the state of things now, it'd be nice to have that guy back in the lineup, and it really makes you wonder how the Tampa series would've gone if he was healthy.

But it's still hard for me to wrap my head around it being a good idea for him to play again. It just seems too risky given how bad this concussion has been. I have a feeling that at this point he will play again, and as said, part of me will be glad, especially if that's what he wants. But that won't lessen the weight of the fact that it's a scary proposition.

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So for all you guys who are so concerned for Franzen's health...If doctors declare him healthy enough to return and claim he's at no more risk of serious injury than many players in the league...You'll fully support him as a player?

Or are you all just hiding behind a shroud of caring?

Some issues:

No doctor will ever say Franzen not at risk of serious injury. Even if he doesn't have the concussion history, that's not a promise anyone can safely throw out there.

But more to the point- if Franzen maintains a period of being asymptomatic for a certain number of days, then he is green lighted to do light workouts etc, and then everyone checks to see if he can stay symptom free, again for a set number of days. They keep upping the workload and checking for symptoms until he's practicing without a contact jersey and back to his original routine. The doctors give the green-light through this process based on his presentation, but that's not the same thing as endorcing Franzen's return. Once Franzen is symptom free, he is technically "healthy" enough to return to the lineup, but I suspect most docs out there would advise against it. At that point, though, it's ultimately Franzen's decision whether he continues to play, not anyone in the medical field.

So to answer your question; if Franzen comes back, I'll be greatly concerned for his long-term health. And to be clear, I've generally been in the minority here that thinks the Wings are a better team with Franzen on the ice.

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Some issues:

No doctor will ever say Franzen not at risk of serious injury. Even if he doesn't have the concussion history, that's not a promise anyone can safely throw out there.

But more to the point- if Franzen maintains a period of being asymptomatic for a certain number of days, then he is green lighted to do light workouts etc, and then everyone checks to see if he can stay symptom free, again for a set number of days. They keep upping the workload and checking for symptoms until he's practicing without a contact jersey and back to his original routine. The doctors give the green-light through this process based on his presentation, but that's not the same thing as endorcing Franzen's return. Once Franzen is symptom free, he is technically "healthy" enough to return to the lineup, but I suspect most docs out there would advise against it. At that point, though, it's ultimately Franzen's decision whether he continues to play, not anyone in the medical field.

So to answer your question; if Franzen comes back, I'll be greatly concerned for his long-term health. And to be clear, I've generally been in the minority here that thinks the Wings are a better team with Franzen on the ice.

Most people who aren't in the medical field or one's who haven't gone thru specific injuries themselves don't realize the points you made. Very true.

The docs clearing the player doesn't mean they necessarily recommend the player going back out there and putting himself in danger. All it means is "you CAN play", it doesn't mean you "should play".

Franzen's doc most likely will advice him not to continue but he will sign his chart off and clear him stating he is symptom free.

Edited by kickazz

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The first thing I'll do is question where the doctors went to medical school and did their residency. :)

Thank you. No team physician can rule out the long term risks here. Not sure what a "shroud of caring is" since I think most fans are genuinely concerned for his long term health, even if we arent all personal friends of Mule or anyone else. It's called being a halfway decent human being, even online.

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Thank you. No team physician can rule out the long term risks here. Not sure what a "shroud of caring is" since I think most fans are genuinely concerned for his long term health, even if we arent all personal friends of Mule or anyone else. It's called being a halfway decent human being, even online.

It's probably the whole "he's worthless, buy him out, trade em for a bag of pucks, just get him off the roster" rhetoric that has gone on for years. Now that he's hurt some people act like they want him to get healthy and come back, but bc they 'care' about him soooo much, they think he should hang him up. As if they don't want him to hang them up for other reasons as well.

I have no doubt ppl feel for him as one human to another, but you can see how it comes off as a "shroud of caring". Some of these caring souls having been bashing him and begging to be rid of him for years. They may finally get their wish.

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I don't really think the people who criticize him aren't "halfway decent human beings" (whatever that means)

I have long been frustrated with Franzen's play for years... I couldn't stand to watch a player with so much natural goal scoring ability become invisible for weeks at a time, and then tell the Detroit Free Press "I am not a goal scorer" when he had the size/speed/skill to be one of the best power forwards in the league. I think it was Zetterberg who said in the '08 playoffs "he has the ability to score 60 goals" or something along those lines, then he put the team on his back to almost win the Conn Smythe that playoff year.

So... You're not a goal scorer anymore? What exactly are you Johan?

I could continue... My point is that no matter how frustrating he was, no matter how much effort he seemed to lack at times, or how many bad things you had to say about him - as a person, most people don't want to see someone get hurt. This is especially true for players who are battling concussions, considering the terrible things that have happened in relation to brain trauma lately - and its at this point where people forget about the hockey player Johan Franzen, and consider the person.

If you understand the Salary Cap, its actually much worse financially (for the Wings) if Franzen retires - yet I still hope he does so he can live a healthy/full life after hockey.

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I don't really think the people who criticize him aren't "halfway decent human beings" (whatever that means)

I have long been frustrated with Franzen's play for years... I couldn't stand to watch a player with so much natural goal scoring ability become invisible for weeks at a time, and then tell the Detroit Free Press "I am not a goal scorer" when he had the size/speed/skill to be one of the best power forwards in the league. I think it was Zetterberg who said in the '08 playoffs "he has the ability to score 60 goals" or something along those lines, then he put the team on his back to almost win the Conn Smythe that playoff year.

So... You're not a goal scorer anymore? What exactly are you Johan?

I could continue... My point is that no matter how frustrating he was, no matter how much effort he seemed to lack at times, or how many bad things you had to say about him - as a person, most people don't want to see someone get hurt. This is especially true for players who are battling concussions, considering the terrible things that have happened in relation to brain trauma lately - and its at this point where people forget about the hockey player Johan Franzen, and consider the person.

If you understand the Salary Cap, its actually much worse financially (for the Wings) if Franzen retires - yet I still hope he does so he can live a healthy/full life after hockey.

He's still a goal scorer, he said he's not just a goal scorer because when he's not scoring goals, he is still doing other things for the team.

He offers space for the other guys on his line because of his size, and he's really good in close spaces with the puck... whether he's scoring or not, there aren't many men his size shoe wrists can pull back that quick around the net and snap a shot off.

Not to mention that his shot is good, decent velocity, beautifully fast release...I can't even count how many times he's had the puck coming up the right side and before anyone had a chance to get in the lane, he pulls back the puck and cuts to the middle and the puck is off his stick.

Its beautiful.

Hes also good defensively, he's not hossa by any means, but he is a 200foot winger.

There were people criticizing his defense last year, when someone else's guy would score and all you seen was him busting his ass hustling back.

I think he was trying to say he's not just here to score goals, because he isn't.

He's one of the guys our younger players look to, he's another remnant of our dominant winning ways that supports the winning culture...

He is a damn good player whose been unfortunate with his head injuries, but he does a lot more for the team than just scoring goals.

I want him to come back, and I want him to finish out his contract healthy, he was still on pace for his normal 25+ goals last season, he just got hurt too much.

Which could happen again, In which case, he goes back on ltir and sits out as long as he needs to be symptom free, and hopefully they don't hinder his life after hockey.

But he's a competitor, as lazy as he can be,(which may or may not be directly related to his concussions)he's fighting to come back for the team..

Don't you want that attitude in the locker room?

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter

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First of all,

He isn't playing out his entire contract.

Second of all,

I agree, he does all of the things you mentioned pretty well - but doesn't do anything exceptionally well (if he isn't scoring goals like he once did). But last time I checked, we already have too many forwards doing most things pretty well who aren't 35, who don't make $4 Million annually, and wont hesitate to be physical because they don't share the injury history he does. In terms of serving as a role model, I think you're right in some cases - but if that's his greatest asset, no thanks.

How can you be a role model to players like Justin Abdelkader, Luke Glendenning, Darren Helm, or Riley Sheahan (our "power forwards") when all 4 of them are literally twice as effective as you, with half the skillset?

I think if Abdelkader could teach Franzen how to play with an edge, he would be the real role model.

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First of all,

He isn't playing out his entire contract.

Second of all,

I agree, he does all of the things you mentioned pretty well - but doesn't do anything exceptionally well (if he isn't scoring goals like he once did). But last time I checked, we already have too many forwards doing most things pretty well who aren't 35, who don't make $4 Million annually, and wont hesitate to be physical because they don't share the injury history he does. In terms of serving as a role model, I think you're right in some cases - but if that's his greatest asset, no thanks.

How can you be a role model to players like Justin Abdelkader, Luke Glendenning, Darren Helm, or Riley Sheahan (our "power forwards") when all 4 of them are literally twice as effective as you, with half the skillset?

I think if Abdelkader could teach Franzen how to play with an edge, he would be the real role model.

he wouldn't have to teach Abby, or helm...they're the next wave of leaders to teach the young guys ( if they both stay past next season) aa for Glendenning and sheahan, neither are as effective offensively as he is in twice as many games, Glendenning shouldn't even be in that conversation, he's a shutdown center...

But sheahan/Jurco could definitely learn from him...just because franzen doeant go out of his way to hit someone, doesn't mean he doesn't play physically along the boards, or in front of the net, which is what he was supposed to do...

Do I wish he would've used his frame as a more classic power forward who scores his twenty five goals, and hits like McCarty, definitely, But that's not who he is.

Which is fine.

When he's healthy, he is a better option than anyone elseat every aspect of the game than we could get for his cap hit, and when he's not, they throw him on ltir and its like he was never there...

It seems like the perfect situation.

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Franzen was an above average goal scorer, he's got an amazing wrist shot and he has big body. Unfortunately he doesn't do the best job of using his big body like some of the other players in the league do. His defense is slightly above average (nowhere near the Datsyuk or Zetterberg, or these days we call it the Glendenning level).

I've said it before, for the amount that he's paid, he's totally worth what he can contribute. I'll take is 25-28 pace goals and his chemistry he has with Z and D when he plays with one of them. Would I call him a leader for the locker room? Yeah, now I would. The fact that he's going through what he is but still has the will to come back, that's something to admire. Would I have called him a leader before all this? Probably not. He never stuck out to me like Lidstrom, Hank and Pav did when it came to being a complete players and being role models. I just thought of him as Mule, the guy that put 25+ goals, had a beastly playoff year in 2008, and who ripped Kane's mouth guard off.

I just think it's time to move on with these arguments tho. Obviously the Franzen fans are upset with the Franzen haters for the comments that were made against him all these years. But honestly, there's other crap going on. The man is trying to recover, lets wish him all the best. I want him back. But I want him to be healthy as well.

To be real, with the 10+ concussion history I basically have written him off, at least as far as playing out his contract.

Edited by kickazz

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