The return of The Mule?

[Z and D for the C 712]

Even if he did come back he'd be a shell of his former self, and his former self wasn't that great. I hate to say it for his own sake but I'd prefer for him to just finish his contract on LTIR.

[chaps80 1,591]

Doubt we see him back. Can't believe he's still got 5 years left on his contract. Wow. Was a good signing at the time though...

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I know I was very hard on the guy, but I can guarantee I never called him a homosexual or called him any kind of criminal. I am willing to admit that I probably called him lazy and floater all the time not knowing or realizing that all along he had these head issues. And like I said, even when I first started hearing the term "head issues" I thought that it meant he wasn't interested playing hard anymore and jumped all over him for that. But, since I heard about the concussions a couple of season's ago, I realized that that was the reason for his play. I am not apologizing for my view of "The Choice," but I do admit that if I had known about the concussions, I may not have been so hard on him...maybe. I might have been hard on him to get off the ice and retire....but like Harold said, there are plenty of players that I cannot stand, but would never be happy about an injury ending their career or quality of life....not even he who shall not be mentioned...

[Buppy 1,720]

Kip's just trying to be clever, but being too subtle about it.

What he's saying is that all this well-wishing and concern about his long-term health is disingenuous. Just a convenient excuse for people to say "good riddance" without looking like an ass or having the legitimacy of their criticisms called into question.

Sure, there may be some genuine sympathy felt at hearing about someone suffering; it's only natural. But that isn't why people want him to retire.

[Shinzaki 72]

or it's that kind of attitude that people who liked an indie band show towards people who discover the band after they're popular and call them "new" when their 4th album breaks..

"I like them all along and I'm superior"...or something like that...

[kipwinger 8,522]

Kip's just trying to be clever, but being too subtle about it.

What he's saying is that all this well-wishing and concern about his long-term health is disingenuous. Just a convenient excuse for people to say "good riddance" without looking like an ass or having the legitimacy of their criticisms called into question.

Sure, there may be some genuine sympathy felt at hearing about someone suffering; it's only natural. But that isn't why people want him to retire.

I didn't even know what disingenuous meant. I had to google it.

[kickazz 5,459]

Franzen was great in his prime.

Franzen had plenty of days when he was a floater on ice.

Franzen doesn't use his size which pisses a lot of people off.

Franzen has a bomb of a wrist shot.

Franzen has lazy days on ice A LOT.

Franzen is however a good winger for the amount that he is paid (pretty cheap).

Franzen was one of our best "goal scorers" and is actually pretty consistent in that department.

Franzen is recovering from TBI and trying to make a comeback. Respect. I hope he makes a full recovery. My heart went out to him in the article where he spoke about being in a "dark place"

Franzen if you do return and if you don't play well. You have the benefit of t he doubt because you recovered from TBI. Just like Zetterberg was given the benefit of the doubt by many fans this playoffs. You get a chance too.

There. Call me a hater or lover. I said it the way I personally feel about it. If you don't like it then boo frickin hoo. It's a matter of personal opinion. Now can we get back to the topic? I feel like everywhere Franzen is mentioned all we see is divergence from the topic and "HAHA remember when you guys hated him?" or "No we didnt! we were just being honest" or some rubbish coverup.

Edited May 31, 2015 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

Howdy, yall! New to the board but a long-term, even branded Red Wing fan. And I believe that the return of The Mule is vital to our campaign for another year in the playoffs and getting out of the 1st round.

Do we see Franzen back at the start of the year? Or even at all? I'm not sure of the severity of the concussion tuned with his age and what not.

What are the odds we see #93 to start the season?

Odds are higher now per Mlive article previously posted.

Edited May 31, 2015 by kickazz

[Nyquistfan14 489]

If he does get back maybe blashill can get him rejuvenated and playing a harder game. Guy can dominate when he's on.

[cnot19 191]

Honestly I've long been against franzen. I'm not changing my tune now he's long been much to soft and inconsistent effort wise for my liking. I can't speak to his injury history and susceptibility to future injuries but I'd feel bad if he became a vegetable. Having said that a nice trip to retiremt or ltir would be welcomed by me

[kipwinger 8,522]

Here's a thought. With the emergence of Abby, Tatar, and Nyquist as regular scoring threats. And with any potential FA acquisitions that Holland picks up, maybe Franzen gets pushed down the depth chart a bit. Or, at the very least, he gets to take advantage of easier matchups/usage. And in doing so, he isn't asked to shoulder as much of the offensive load as in years past.

As a secondary scorer I think he'd be incredibly valuable. He'd (theoretically) carve up third line competition.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Here's a thought. With the emergence of Abby, Tatar, and Nyquist as regular scoring threats. And with any potential FA acquisitions that Holland picks up, maybe Franzen gets pushed down the depth chart a bit. Or, at the very least, he gets to take advantage of easier matchups/usage. And in doing so, he isn't asked to shoulder as much of the offensive load as in years past.

As a secondary scorer I think he'd be incredibly valuable. He'd (theoretically) carve up third line competition.

We'd have to add one more to the top 6 or have Pulkkinen, Sheahan, Jurco, Helm or Weiss grab one of those spots for that to happen. I agree, though, that have Mule or maybe Nyquist on the 3rd line would be great for our offence and matchups.

[kipwinger 8,522]

We'd have to add one more to the top 6 or have Pulkkinen, Sheahan, Jurco, Helm or Weiss grab one of those spots for that to happen. I agree, though, that have Mule or maybe Nyquist on the 3rd line would be great for our offence and matchups.

I think Holland's trade deadline acquisitions are indicative of the types of moves he'd like to make in the offseason. I mean, Cole and Zidlicky perhaps didn't have the desired effect, but they were the right moves. I think Holland looks to add a big winger, and a right shooting puck mover.

Another guy like Cole in the top six, and Franzen can go down to the third. That's my guess.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

If Franzen plays, they'll have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Abdelkader, Helm, Jurco, Franzen, Weiss, and Pulkkinen fighting for 9 spots on one of the scoring lines. Miller and Glendening are pretty much set as checking line players, and Andersson, Callahan, and Ferraro will be competing for spots. Something is going to have to give.

[kipwinger 8,522]

It seems pretty likely, given that logjam, that Weiss will get traded or bought out no?

I'd say they should look to trade Pulkkinen, but I suspect they'll give Blashill the opportunity to use him first.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I think Holland's trade deadline acquisitions are indicative of the types of moves he'd like to make in the offseason. I mean, Cole and Zidlicky perhaps didn't have the desired effect, but they were the right moves. I think Holland looks to add a big winger, and a right shooting puck mover.

Another guy like Cole in the top six, and Franzen can go down to the third. That's my guess.

I wonder if Beleskey would sign in Detroit, seeing as he's from Windsor?

[WingedWheel91 271]

Weiss has admitted it will be tough to crack the Red Wings next season.

I'm guessing:

(1) He's bought out and we pay a $1.9 Million hit over the next 4 seasons. (Which is less than the cap increased this year)

(2) He's traded for an equally bad contract, perhaps Dion Phaneuf. (Babcock making this situation difficult)

(3) He's traded to a re-building team to reach the cap floor. (Most likely scenario as his contract only has 2 years of salary left)

If Franzen can come back healthy (which is looking more real each day) he probably isn't a top 6 player right away, however would represent an upgrade over Jurco on our 3rd line.

FRANZEN - SHEAHAN - PULKINNEN.

Dream Scenario:

Trade Weiss, Jurco, Smith for Phanuef (-1,500,000)

Edited June 1, 2015 by WingedWheel91

[nawein 324]

Weiss has admitted it will be tough to crack the Red Wings next season.

I'm guessing:

(1) He's bought out and we pay a $1.9 Million hit over the next 4 seasons. (Which is less than the cap increased this year)

(2) He's traded for an equally bad contract, perhaps Dion Phaneuf. (Babcock making this situation difficult)

(3) He's traded to a re-building team to reach the cap floor. (Most likely scenario as his contract only has 2 years of salary left)

If Franzen can come back healthy (which is looking more real each day) he probably isn't a top 6 player right away, however would represent an upgrade over Jurco on our 3rd line.

FRANZEN - SHEAHAN - PULKINNEN.

Dream Scenario:

Trade Weiss, Jurco, Smith for Phanuef (-1,500,000)

Not that it has anything to do with Franzen, but why are people so quick to give up on Jurco? Sure, he didn't meet expectations this year but he's an entire year younger than Pulkkinen. Give the kid some time, he'll be good. Edited June 1, 2015 by nawein

[kipwinger 8,522]

I wonder if Beleskey would sign in Detroit, seeing as he's from Windsor?

I read an article on him recently, written by an analytics guy, who argued that he was pretty overrated and that his production was unsustainable. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Nevermind, it wasn't an analytics guy per se. It was Ryan Lambert. Still, the point is relevant.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/the-matt-beleskey-question--trending-topics-195741162.html

Edited June 1, 2015 by kipwinger

[kipwinger 8,522]

Not that it has anything to do with Franzen, but why are people so quick to give up on Jurco? Sure, he didn't meet expectations this year but he's an entire year younger than Pulkkinen. Give the kid some time, he'll be good.

Because people have short memories, and they completely forgot exactly how long it took Helm and Abby to find their offensive games in the NHL. They also forgot that Jurco is much more skilled than either of those two, and while it will still be hard for him to learn a power foward's game, it will probably be a shorter adjustment period than either of the two aforementioned players.

Prediction, by the time he's Abby's age he will have 2-3 50 point seasons under his belt, but none of them will probably come next season. Mark it.

[barabbas16 499]

Not that it has anything to do with Franzen, but why are people so quick to give up on Jurco? Sure, he didn't meet expectations this year but he's an entire year younger than Pulkkinen. Give the kid some time, he'll be good.

Because "didn't meet expectations" is putting it lightly. I didn't expect him to light the world on fire.... I did expect him to score more goals this season than Big E and KFQ.... Drew Miller.... Kindl... Joakim Andersson. He did score more Dan Cleary by 2, though, so hats off to him. Of course, Danny boy scored more goals per game than Jurco, so nevermind. The expectation wasn't just that he wouldn't be completely worthless (which he was for the entire year), but that he would actually be good (which he wasn't.... for the entire year).

Edited June 1, 2015 by barabbas16

[kipwinger 8,522]

Because "didn't meet expectations" is putting it lightly. I didn't expect him to light the world on fire.... I did expect him to score more goals this season than Big E and KFQ.... Drew Miller.... Kindl... Joakim Andersson. He did score more Dan Cleary by 2, though, so hats off to him. Of course, Danny boy scored more goals per game than Jurco, so nevermind. The expectation wasn't just that he wouldn't be completely worthless (which he was for the entire year), but that he would actually be good (which he wasn't.... for the entire year).

That's bogus. You're measuring his worth entirely by offensive output, which I agree he didn't produce. But that belies the fact that he's very good defensively, he hits, he's fast and hard to knock off the puck, he wins board battles. He was a very quality possession player given his role. His possession metrics were noticeably better than our other 3rd and 4th liners.

He wasn't completely worthless. He did a lot for the team. He just didn't score. In that way he's very similar to Abby and Helm in their first few years.

Measuring a guy's value based solely on their point totals (particularly in a non-scoring role) is only an indication that your "analysis" is incredibly unsophisticated. Not that the player is "completely worthless".

[T.Low 1,011]

Not that it has anything to do with Franzen, but why are people so quick to give up on Jurco? .... Give the kid some time, he'll be good.

If Jurco doesn't ripen in the time it takes this thread to turn back to Franzen, then he never will.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Because "didn't meet expectations" is putting it lightly. I didn't expect him to light the world on fire.... I did expect him to score more goals this season than Big E and KFQ.... Drew Miller.... Kindl... Joakim Andersson. He did score more Dan Cleary by 2, though, so hats off to him. Of course, Danny boy scored more goals per game than Jurco, so nevermind. The expectation wasn't just that he wouldn't be completely worthless (which he was for the entire year), but that he would actually be good (which he wasn't.... for the entire year).

did you expect much offense playing with Miller and Glendening most of the time?

[Shinzaki 72]

Not that it has anything to do with Franzen, but why are people so quick to give up on Jurco? Sure, he didn't meet expectations this year but he's an entire year younger than Pulkkinen. Give the kid some time, he'll be good.