Which Sweater Do RWs Retire First - Feds or Ozzy?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I have a feeling Housley will be used as precedent in tons of arguments for players getting into the HHOF.

Housley and Niedermayer are in, but Zubov isn't? Lindros isn't? etc.

I don't think Osgood should get into the HHOF for similar reasons that I think Housley shouldn't be in there. Osgood had a good long career and was an accumulator, but was never considered among the elite.

Cam Neely and Housley both. One was great but didn't play very long. He got Bure into the HOF and Lindros will likely join them. Maybe Kariya too.

Housley scored a ton of points, but was never an elite defenseman at any point and never won anything in his career. He will get in players like Andreychuk, and maybe even Turgeon.

The HOF committee needs to realize that a lot of these 1,000+ scorers from the 80's and early 90's are guys who accumulated these stats because of the era they played in. That doesn't by itself mean Housley should be in. He's in the Hall of very good (offensively) and I don't want to take away from his being a great offensive defenseman. But his points are inflated, and his defensive skills shouldn't get him in the Hall. I can't think of any defenseman in the HOF that I would choose him over.

Osgood was rarely the best goalie on his own team, let alone the league at any given time in his career. I guarantee he doesn't get into the hall, and as far as I am concerned being in the hall is a prerequisite for your jersey being retired.

The problem Osgood has, as I've stated before, is his poor record in Vezina trophy votes as compared to his peers. I believe he only finished in top 5 for Vezina trophy voting once. He doesn't rank as one of the 5 best goalies of his generation, which doesn't help either.

A very good goalie who won a lot of games and several Cups, but not quite elite enough to make the HHOF. But you never know with the voters picking Housley over Makarov or Lindros.

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

Should we remove Dom Hasek from the HOF because Osgood took over from him in 2008, and basically was a primary reason why we won the Cup that year, and Osgood was the same netminder who helped us damn near won the Cup again in 2009?

EDIT - Hank may have won the Conn Smythe in 2008, but if you ask me - had Babs not replaced Hasek with Osgood - we never would've won the Cup that year...IMHO - one could argue that Osgood was worthy of that trophy.

Maybe if you can find a way to take away his 6 Vezinas. I understand the point you are making, but it is apples and oranges. Dom was how old when that happened?

[kickazz 5,459]

Should we remove Dom Hasek from the HOF because Osgood took over from him in 2008, and basically was a primary reason why we won the Cup that year, and Osgood was the same netminder who helped us damn near won the Cup again in 2009?

EDIT - Hank may have won the Conn Smythe in 2008, but if you ask me - had Babs not replaced Hasek with Osgood - we never would've won the Cup that year...IMHO - one could argue that Osgood was worthy of that trophy.

That doesn't make sense Hasek's career wasn't successful because we won a cup in 2008 it was everything before that. If anything the 2008 cup probably gave the least boost to his HOF resume.

Edited July 3, 2015 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

Cam Neely and Housley both. One was great but didn't play very long. He got Bure into the HOF and Lindros will likely join them. Maybe Kariya too.

Housley scored a ton of points, but was never an elite defenseman at any point and never won anything in his career. He will get in players like Andreychuk, and maybe even Turgeon.

The HOF committee needs to realize that a lot of these 1,000+ scorers from the 80's and early 90's are guys who accumulated these stats because of the era they played in. That doesn't by itself mean Housley should be in. He's in the Hall of very good (offensively) and I don't want to take away from his being a great offensive defenseman. But his points are inflated, and his defensive skills shouldn't get him in the Hall. I can't think of any defenseman in the HOF that I would choose him over.

The problem Osgood has, as I've stated before, is his poor record in Vezina trophy votes as compared to his peers. I believe he only finished in top 5 for Vezina trophy voting once. He doesn't rank as one of the 5 best goalies of his generation, which doesn't help either.

A very good goalie who won a lot of games and several Cups, but not quite elite enough to make the HHOF. But you never know with the voters picking Housley over Makarov or Lindros.

A lot of defensemen played in the 80s-90s, and few put up the numbers Housley did. To me, the HHoF is as much about the history of the game as the greatness of the players, so I believe players with exceptional achievements deserve to be in there. Housely, Andreychuk, Recchi, Cujo, Osgood...all deserving IMO. Borderline for sure, and nothing really lost if they never get in, but I think they should be.

While Osgood's status relative to his peers is often brought up, I think you have to keep in mind that three of those guys could all make a good case for best goalie of all time. I think if he was in his prime today, he'd be right up there with Lundquist, Quick, Price, Rinne, etc.

[kickazz 5,459]

If Howard won 3 cups should be go to hall of fame o.O

[kliq 3,755]

If Howard won 3 cups should be go to hall of fame o.O

That is a very tough question to answer as its based on a hypothetical premise. If he turned his career around became an elite goaltender and led the Wings to 3 cups, then I would say yes. But there are a ton of other questions that would need to be answered. Did he play good in the playoffs? Did he play good in the regular season? How many wins does he end up with? What’s his career GAA & Save %? Does he win a Conn Smythe? Does he carry the wings on his back during any of these runs? etc.

If the playoff runs of 2008 and 2009 didn’t happen, I would say Osgood does not deserve to be in the HOF. However IMO, those are the two years that changed things. But, this is not a clear cut answer, I definitely see the other side of the coin.

Edited July 3, 2015 by kliq

[kickazz 5,459]

That is a very tough question to answer as its based on a hypothetical premise. If he turned his career around became an elite goaltender and led the Wings to 3 cups, then I would say yes. But there are a ton of other questions that would need to be answered. Did he play good in the playoffs? Did he play good in the regular season? How many wins does he end up with? What’s his career GAA & Save %? Does he win a Conn Smythe? Does he carry the wings on his back during any of these runs? etc.

If the playoff runs of 2008 and 2009 didn’t happen, I would say Osgood does not deserve to be in the HOF. However IMO, those are the two years that changed things. But, this is not a clear cut answer, I definitely see the other side of the coin.

It also helps when your team has Rafalski, Lidstrom followed by Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen in their prime rather than Smith, Kindl, Ericsson, a washed up Zetterberg and an injury prone Datsyuk.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Burnside over at ESPN takes on the case for and against Ozzy getting in the HHOF.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/35052/hall-of-fame-debate-chris-osgood

Concluding ultimately that yes, he's HHOF material. The interesting point he makes against "they could've won with any goalie" argument is that the Wings didn't manage to with Cujo, Legace, Cheveldae. Obviously there were other factors involved but it's an interesting point.

[kickazz 5,459]

Personally - I felt Ozzie should've won the Conn Smythe in 2008.

While it was great that Ozzie came in clutch and saved the team from a declining Hasek, Zetterberg's 2008 performance in the playoffs was one of the best if not the best in every series of the playoffs of that decade. Most Conn Smythe winners excel at one part of the game (say offense) but Z was most memorable for literally dominating every single aspect. From forecheck, to backcheck, to body hits to playmaking to goal scoring to penalty killing and quarterbacking the powerplay. He was so damn good that I remember he humiliated Dallas's power play WHILE he was killing the penalty and got 2 damn short handed goals that series. I've yet to see a player replicate that amount of "completedness" in a playoff season. I've yet to see Bergeron pull it off or even Jonathan Toews himself. And as much as I love Pav, not even he was able to replicate that style in a playoff season.

Hence why Z got it. Ozzie imo was up there in consideration for it and probably would have any other year.

Edited July 8, 2015 by kickazz

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Next year there aren't many flashy names. I'd say Ozzie and Lindros both go in and the hockey world EXPLODES.

[8 Legged RedWing 367]

Larry Aurie first. The disrespect for this man and his family is a huge stain on this franchise.

[Guest Shoreline]

Forget both of them. It's well past time for Sean Avery to have his number retired.

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

0 Vezinas = no hall= no number retirement.

Can you honestly say that Chris Osgood was one of the best goaltenders of all time? How many times did Roy or Broduer get benched in the prime of their careers, let alone ever?

When was he ever among the elite goaltenders in any given year? He accumulated wins with a long career on a team that was going to dominate the regular season regardless of the goaltender. Remember 2005-2006, everyone likes to hate on Manny but didn't the wings collect 50+ wins that year? Doesn't that prove the wings were going to win in the regular season regardless of goaltender?

Regarding the playoffs, goaltending was never really a strength or weakness, scoring goals was. When we succeeded in the playoffs it was when we scored at will, not when a goalie played lights out and we sqeaked out 2-1 wins.

Chris Osgood may have 400+ wins, but he himself was never instrumental in those wins. You can't say that about the other tenders in the hall.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot)

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Next year there aren't many flashy names. I'd say Ozzie and Lindros both go in and the hockey world EXPLODES.

Lindros will get in. It's a matter of time. Osgood, I'm not sure about. I'd be shocked if he makes it next year.

These players are not alike either. One was a driver. The other, a passenger.

Come to think of it, though, if Housley is in the HOF, why can't Osgood be? Osgood also accumulated stats and was never one of the best players at his position. And unlike Housley, he's had some big team successes.

Edited July 8, 2015 by GMRwings1983

[TheXym 2,606]

I agree, the Housley vote is going to open he floodgates for the "fringe accumulators"