Report: Cleary wants to return for 1 more season

[Avssuc 2]

CBS Sports reported it: http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/23574197/dan-cleary-to-sign-with-flyers-for-three-years-775-million

NBC Philadelphia reported it: http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/source-flyers-dan-cleary-agree-deal

NHL.com reported it: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=681912

My point of showing all these links is that Cleary and Holland were not "the only ones" talking about it. It was reported from pretty much every media outlet out there is. Could it be wrong....sure. Only Holmgrem, Cleary, and Cleary's agent know for sure.

I believe you are right and that a handshake agreement is not allowed under the CBA. But good luck proving a conversation that took place between a select few. Again, could it be BS....yes. But all signs point to it being true given that he keeps getting signed when he clearly is done. I am basing my opinion off off what I see.

Gotta vet those sources better:

"General manager Paul Holmgren confirmed on Tuesday that Dan Cleary will be at the Flyers' camp Thursday on a tryout contract. However, Holmgren said no deal was in place, as was reported by the Detroit Free Press."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inqflyersreport/Report-Cleary-headed-to-Flyers.html#1E2J3WVT8x2wtASD.99

[Avssuc 2]

Gotta vet those sources better:

"General manager Paul Holmgren confirmed on Tuesday that Dan Cleary will be at the Flyers' camp Thursday on a tryout contract. However, Holmgren said no deal was in place, as was reported by the Detroit Free Press."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inqflyersreport/Report-Cleary-headed-to-Flyers.html#1E2J3WVT8x2wtASD.99

Listen to Holmgren in his own words...a day after Cleary decided to go to the wings (and after it was alread reported Cleary was not offered a contract).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMhA9nV9YE

It's not the fact that Cleary was signed originally that upset everyone (or the continued tradition), it's the rationale behind the signing, and the obvious lie. No GM in their right mind was offering Cleary a contract at that point in his career. Not even Philly!

Edited June 11, 2015 by Avssuc

[kliq 3,755]

Gotta vet those sources better:

"General manager Paul Holmgren confirmed on Tuesday that Dan Cleary will be at the Flyers' camp Thursday on a tryout contract. However, Holmgren said no deal was in place, as was reported by the Detroit Free Press."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inqflyersreport/Report-Cleary-headed-to-Flyers.html#1E2J3WVT8x2wtASD.99

I read those sources just fine. I am very aware of what you just posted. I wasn't saying that without a shadow of a doubt Cleary was offered a 3 year deal. I was saying that it was being reported he was given a 3 year deal as the poster was saying that ONLY Cleary & Holland were talking about a 3 year deal.

Read what I said:

My point of showing all these links is that Cleary and Holland were not "the only ones" talking about it. It was reported from pretty much every media outlet out there is. Could it be wrong....sure. Only Holmgrem, Cleary, and Cleary's agent know for sure.

Listen to Holmgren in his own words...a day after Cleary decided to go to the wings (and after it was alread reported Cleary was not offered a contract).

It's not the fact that Cleary was signed originally that upset everyone (or the continued tradition), it's the rationale behind the signing, and the obvious lie. No GM in their right mind was offering Cleary a contract at that point in his career. Not even Philly!

Again, it could be BS. But just because a GM says it it (especially Philly) doesn't mean it was true.

If I had to guess, I'm thinking a 3 year deal was on the table pending a physical, and Cleary didn't want to do the physical for obvious reasons......But that is just a guess.

[Avssuc 2]

I read those sources just fine. I am very aware of what you just posted. I wasn't saying that without a shadow of a doubt Cleary was offered a 3 year deal. I was saying that it was being reported he was given a 3 year deal as the poster was saying that ONLY Cleary & Holland were talking about a 3 year deal.

Read what I said:

Again, it could be BS. But just because a GM says it it (especially Philly) doesn't mean it was true.

If I had to guess, I'm thinking a 3 year deal was on the table pending a physical, and Cleary didn't want to do the physical for obvious reasons......But that is just a guess.

You do know that the origin source for all the evidence you laud is a St. James (Freep reporter) tweet....right? So this means that there is only one moderately placed source, giving one sided information. The key to vetting is using both sides of the equation, tethered with common sense.

You show bias in that you didn't offer the opinion of Holmgren, or his staff. You go on to back the St. James fodder by saying a 3 year deal was in place pending a physical. Did you even watch the video? Holmgren reinforced his stance that it was a tryout. I don't have a metric, but the number of guys that have gotten lucrative 3 year deals off of professional tryouts has to be nonexistent.

Danny was/is a good country club guy. He left it all out there, so Holland felt obligated. I have no problem with Cleary getting paid, but he was a impedement in his first year, a non-factor last, and who knows this year. Holland needed/needs to have the guts to tell this guy he needs to scout, sit in the front office, sell popcorn, etc. The problem with this is salary structure in the front office. Cleary can't make the same amount without upsetting the balance with Drapes and Malts.

[Avssuc 2]

So in summary, anyone forwarding the idea that Cleary had any contract in place is poorly speculating. By doing so, they parrot the white noise of one beat reporter. A reporter who not only had a relationship with Cleary (seeing as how Cleary was the non-official media liaison), but is also cut from the Ivy Lee & Eddy Bernays PR school... as an arm of the Wings front office public relations. Cite the last article where St. James was critical of anything done by the Wings org (since that is supposed to be part of her job) and I'll think about revision here.

[kipwinger 8,521]

This is all being blown out of proportion. Cleary will not sign another contract with the Wings. I'm willing to bet on it.

They'll either do like they did with Maltby, or if he's really hell bent on playing, they'll do like they did with Chelios. With the tacit understanding that he'll have a job in the front office when he'd ready to hang up the skates.

Edit: Here's another reason why it won't happen. Jeff Blashill LOVES Landon Ferraro and Mitch Callahan. You think he'll be ok exposing them to waivers for Dan Cleary? No way.

Edited June 11, 2015 by kipwinger

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Just because Holmgren said after the fact that there was no deal, doesn't mean it's true. My guess is, Clearly was told that he could come to camp and if he showed anything he'd get a 3 year deal once the Flyers cap situation, which was a mess at the time, was resolved.

Either way, Clearly is done as an NHL player. I don't understand how he can't see that after being scratched so often last year

[e_prime 1,936]

Clearly things are not clear when it comes to Cleary.

[Avssuc 2]

Just because Holmgren said after the fact that there was no deal, doesn't mean it's true. My guess is, Clearly was told that he could come to camp and if he showed anything he'd get a 3 year deal once the Flyers cap situation, which was a mess at the time, was resolved.

Either way, Clearly is done as an NHL player. I don't understand how he can't see that after being scratched so often last year

Don't know if the irony has been pointed out yet, but your SN is one of a beat reporter spreading BS in the local paper for one of his favorite players (Reg Dunlop) to help his career. Worked pretty well too. Edited June 11, 2015 by Avssuc

[Jacksoni 418]

Dunno something tells me Cleary will get to hang on someway.

Kenny likes him, he has good social skills.

It's not what I want but I can see it happen. And anger lots of members on this board. ^^

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Don't know if the irony has been pointed out yet, but your SN is one of a beat reporter spreading BS in the local paper for one of his favorite players (Reg Dunlop) to help his career. Worked pretty well too.

Dickie believed it, St. lame is just full of s***

[gcom007 1,465]

Lol. I kind of want it to happen just to see people lose their minds.

It's stupid that he wants to go again, but yes, yes, yes. He'd never play, won't hurt us with the cap, and the humor wild be unreal. I would give Holland a pass on it for sure.

[kliq 3,755]

You do know that the origin source for all the evidence you laud is a St. James (Freep reporter) tweet....right? So this means that there is only one moderately placed source, giving one sided information. The key to vetting is using both sides of the equation, tethered with common sense.

You show bias in that you didn't offer the opinion of Holmgren, or his staff. You go on to back the St. James fodder by saying a 3 year deal was in place pending a physical. Did you even watch the video? Holmgren reinforced his stance that it was a tryout. I don't have a metric, but the number of guys that have gotten lucrative 3 year deals off of professional tryouts has to be nonexistent.

Don't know if the irony has been pointed out yet, but your SN is one of a beat reporter spreading BS in the local paper for one of his favorite players (Reg Dunlop) to help his career. Worked pretty well too.

Do you not see the hypocrisy in what you are saying? You say that I have a bias, while you are the one constructing a narrative that one side is clearly wrong. (hence calling St. Jame's story BS & Fodder and taking Holmgrem's words as fact).

For the record, I am NOT saying that the that the story is 100% true, I am saying that it could be true and that if I had to guess I do believe it is. I realize that I could be wrong as there is no proof.

You make claim that only one source reported this. Here is a section from the article I posted. Did you read the whole thing?

"It ended with the Flyers giving the Stanley Cup veteran left wing an actual contract -- three years for $8.25 million, according to an NHL source, who confirmed the signing as reported by the Detroit Free Press late Monday."

This section clearly states that an NHL source confirmed the St. James report. They are referring to St. James as an NHL source as obviously someone cannot confirm their own story.

Lets just end it by saying you don't believe the story, I do. There is really no need to debate something back and forth that nobody can prove.

[Avssuc 2]

Do you not see the hypocrisy in what you are saying? You say that I have a bias, while you are the one constructing a narrative that one side is clearly wrong. (hence calling St. Jame's story BS & Fodder and taking Holmgrem's words as fact).

For the record, I am NOT saying that the that the story is 100% true, I am saying that it could be true and that if I had to guess I do believe it is. I realize that I could be wrong as there is no proof.

You make claim that only one source reported this. Here is a section from the article I posted. Did you read the whole thing?

"It ended with the Flyers giving the Stanley Cup veteran left wing an actual contract -- three years for $8.25 million, according to an NHL source, who confirmed the signing as reported by the Detroit Free Press late Monday."

This section clearly states that an NHL source confirmed the St. James report. They are referring to St. James as an NHL source as obviously someone cannot confirm their own story.

Lets just end it by saying you don't believe the story, I do. There is really no need to debate something back and forth that nobody can prove.

Again, you cite an anonymous derivative of the Freep agent 'tweet'... that is the singular source giving legs to this mess. It 'seems' like you took time to read my reply (given the extensive bold highlights/redaction), but did you let the body sink in?

Certification is certainly unattainable, but common sense should provide understanding that the narrative here is bogus. A baser and unbiased look at this situation provides perspective that, most likely, would contradict your findings. If you still fail to understand the source origination, I'm unable to render further assistance.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Avssuc

[kliq 3,755]

Again, you cite an anonymous derivative of the Freep agent 'tweet'... that is the singular source giving legs to this mess. It 'seems' like you took time to read my reply (given the extensive bold highlights/redaction), but did you let the body sink in?

Certification is certainly unattainable, but common sense should provide understanding that the narrative here is bogus. A baser and unbiased look at this situation provides perspective that, most likely, would contradict your findings. If you still fail to understand the source origination, I'm unable to render further assistance.

I wasn't citing only an anonymous freep tweet, I was citing an anonymous NHL source that confirmed the freep tweet, hence two anonymous sources lol.

Of couse I read your entire post, if I am going to respond back with a difference of opinion I am going to make sure I know what I am responding to. There is no lack of "sinking in" needed here. I 100% fully understand your opinion and understand why you have it, I simply dont agree with you.

I feel like using the term common sense is a slight way of taking a shot at me for not agreeing with you, as there is no easier way to attack someone's stance/opinion then saying that the reason why they don't agree with you is due to a lack of intelligence or lack of comprehension. That's fine, but I am not going to go down that road. You want to understand my logic in believing the story, here it is:

- Philadelphia is nototious for making stupid moves. Any other team I probably would not believe it, but this is a team that traded JVR for Schenn, Hartnell for Umberger and numerous other horrible moves that I don't feel like looking up. I think this point is shown.

- I believe Ken Holland's biggest strength is his eye for talent. In the case of Cleary, I have to wonder why he would give him a (1.5 - 2.5mil) contract when it was obvious to everyone that the guy was done. I don't believe Holland is bad GM, and I don't believe that he was unaware of Cleary's diminishing skillset/health, I believe that he made the signing due to the loyalty Cleary showed him in turning down the Philly contract. If Holland signs him again to a one year deal, then I definitely believe it. I know Holland makes mistakes, I am not saying the guy is perfect, but there was not really any upside with Cleary last year and especially not this year. (He does bring leadership, and he does just take a press box spot, but 2.5mil is way to much for that)

- I don't see why HSJ would just make this up, why an anonymous source would lie when confirming it, or why NBC sports would make up an anonymous source confirming it. It's such a small story, there is no reason to lie about this. Its not a story that is going to "get clicks". To me it makes more sense that Philly offered this contract, received backlash for another bonehead move, then denied it.

Again, I AM NOT saying that the contract is 100% true, I am saying that I think it is true.

[Helmethead 235]

Maybe when Kenny meets with Danny boy next week he tries to convince him to retire. Offer a job in the organization somewhere and he accepts it. This is what I'm hoping for. But there is the possibility he is back on the roster next season.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

A buddy told me today that he read that if Holland offers him a contract, he will have to earn a spot in training camp or get waived. Holland said that he will not lose another young talent again this year like he lost Nestrasil last year. He went on to say that the report said we didn't even have to lose him to waivers because of Cleary, but because our former coach was dead set against sending Jurco down to GR, making room for Nestrasil and for Cleary to ride the press box.

I didn't know that Jurco had exemptions last season. Not that I would have been in favor of sending him down in order to have Cleary and Nestrasil, but from a business aspect, if we had to have Cleary (like it seems this year as well) you had to send Jurco instead of Nestrasil in order to protect Nesty. I wonder if that was something that Holland and Babs butted heads on and something that maybe soured their relationship...

Problem with this is, IF Cleary were to play well enough to get a 14th spot, then they will have to waive a player or two. Maybe Holland is hedging on trading Weiss, losing Franzen to LTIR or maybe trading a kid anyhow, but just like before I would HATE to again lose a young un-tapped talent in order to keep a useless geriatric on the team.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Yes, Jurco could have and should have been sent down last season. I think he should have started the season in Grand Rapids, even if we were short with the big club and we had to sign a vet. He simply wasn't ready. There's not a doubt in my mind that both Jurco and Pulkkinen would have benefitted from Tomas spending one more season in the minors. Make no mistake though, losing Nestrasil to Carolina last season was no huge loss, by any stretch. He will top out at 30 points, and those players are a dime a dozen.

On Cleary, I honestly don't believe he will be on the 23 man roster in October. If he is offered another contract it will be based on a tryout. I'd love to see him stay with the organization, much like Draper and Maltby have, in some sort of training (strength and conditioning) role. I love Cleary, being a fellow Newfie, and I wish he had more left in the tank, but it's clear that he has given all he can as a player. He's done...

[amato 3,210]

Make no mistake though, losing Nestrasil to Carolina last season was no huge loss, by any stretch.

But look at that smile! He's got the London look

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

But look at that smile! He's got the London look

Stephen Weiss' brother

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Stephen Weiss' brother

Dude I said that so many times when he was playing for us last year, I asked people if they seen it but I don't think anyone replied.

But yes.

Ha.

They definitely look like brothers.

I wasn't citing only an anonymous freep tweet, I was citing an anonymous NHL source that confirmed the freep tweet, hence two anonymous sources lol.

Of couse I read your entire post, if I am going to respond back with a difference of opinion I am going to make sure I know what I am responding to. There is no lack of "sinking in" needed here. I 100% fully understand your opinion and understand why you have it, I simply dont agree with you.

I feel like using the term common sense is a slight way of taking a shot at me for not agreeing with you, as there is no easier way to attack someone's stance/opinion then saying that the reason why they don't agree with you is due to a lack of intelligence or lack of comprehension. That's fine, but I am not going to go down that road. You want to understand my logic in believing the story, here it is:

- Philadelphia is nototious for making stupid moves. Any other team I probably would not believe it, but this is a team that traded JVR for Schenn, Hartnell for Umberger and numerous other horrible moves that I don't feel like looking up. I think this point is shown.

- I believe Ken Holland's biggest strength is his eye for talent. In the case of Cleary, I have to wonder why he would give him a (1.5 - 2.5mil) contract when it was obvious to everyone that the guy was done. I don't believe Holland is bad GM, and I don't believe that he was unaware of Cleary's diminishing skillset/health, I believe that he made the signing due to the loyalty Cleary showed him in turning down the Philly contract. If Holland signs him again to a one year deal, then I definitely believe it. I know Holland makes mistakes, I am not saying the guy is perfect, but there was not really any upside with Cleary last year and especially not this year. (He does bring leadership, and he does just take a press box spot, but 2.5mil is way to much for that)

- I don't see why HSJ would just make this up, why an anonymous source would lie when confirming it, or why NBC sports would make up an anonymous source confirming it. It's such a small story, there is no reason to lie about this. Its not a story that is going to "get clicks". To me it makes more sense that Philly offered this contract, received backlash for another bonehead move, then denied it.

Again, I AM NOT saying that the contract is 100% true, I am saying that I think it is true.

Ill add in that apparently, before the Weiss signing, Holland had also offered him a three year deal that cleary turned down to go to free agency.

Idk if its true or not, but I'll try to find the article.

Edited June 12, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[kliq 3,755]

Ill add in that apparently, before the Weiss signing, Holland had also offered him a three year deal that cleary turned down to go to free agency.

Idk if its true or not, but I'll try to find the article.

I think you are right. But to be fair, that was following the 2012/13 playoff run where we lost to Chicago in the second round. Cleary actually played very well in that series. It wasnt until the 2013/14 season that things just fell apart.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I think you are right. But to be fair, that was following the 2012/13 playoff run where we lost to Chicago in the second round. Cleary actually played very well in that series. It wasnt until the 2013/14 season that things just fell apart.

Yep.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/09/red_wings_sign_daniel_cleary_t.html

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Meh. He played, what, like 10 games? Daniel Cleary is the least of our concerns. It's comical to even get worked up about what amounts to a manager living up to a promise he made because ethically he feels compelled to if the result is so miniscule.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Meh. He played, what, like 10 games? Daniel Cleary is the least of our concerns. It's comical to even get worked up about what amounts to a manager living up to a promise he made because ethically he feels compelled to if the result is so miniscule.

Where the he'll have you been?