Wings open to trading Mantha and/or their 1st Round Pick

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

I thought that it was Weiss, smith and the disagreement was between pulks and mantha.

I didn't see one report that we were trading our first in that package.

I thought it was cause Toronto wouldn't retain any salary

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I thought it was cause Toronto wouldn't retain any salary

Ha. Yeah.

I seen that one too.

Never seen the first and mantha though.

[kickazz 5,459]

What happened to the days where people actually realized Phaneuf was garbage. Have the standards really sunken that low?

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

What happened to the days where people actually realized Phaneuf was garbage. Have the standards really sunken that low?

Yes.

[number9 3,297]

I believe been through this already with someone .... Obviously not but I'm sure if Kenny tried harder we wouldn't of had to give janmark ... Just looks like he gave in easily

Cole is what ? 36? Ufa and a history of injuries and we give up a 2nd and backman(which say what you will but was regarded as a top prospect when the deal went down) and we throw in a young kid who was playing well in the shl?

If that's what cole cost imagine what a 32 year old ufa with injury problems will cost us ... Ouellet athanasiou and a pick?

Anyways didn't wanna get back into this it's over and done with ... My point is bringing up cole was he along with others holland have signed last few years or traded for have brought absolutely nothing to the wings (injury excuses or not)

I Think the last move that worked out for us was bringing Rafalski and giving cleary a shot and him turning out to be a good addition

I know it's funny cause of my name but I'd rather trade a nyquist/Tatar in a deal to get a dman

And just because we have larkin etc... Coming it doesn't guarantee anything ...what if mantha becomes a 30+ guy every year ? If we trade him then he could fetch us a lot more than now so I'm in no hurry to deal him

If we get Phaneuf does that make us a cup contender? Still need a few moves ... I think trusting ouellet and marchenko more makes us better , and if we could add a mike green to quarterback the ppl we'll be way better than now and we still have mantha in our system and the 19th pick or 2 more depending if we trade back or not

Backman was never going to be a Red Wing, and Janmark didn't really progress at all with his new team. I assume the deal was "I'm not giving you a first, how bout a second?" "I need a prospect too" "Ok, how bout these 2 guys I'm not going to use, but you might be able to"

Reality is, the cupboard really is overfull. We've traded 3 prominent prospects in the last few years. And we're losing decent draft picks like Wheaton and McNulty... and Quine a few years back.

I trust management knows who doesn't have a realistic shot as a wing, thus they become tradeable assets. They might not get us Yandle's of the world, but they get a Cole, or a Legwand all right.

What I'm worried about is Detroit becoming known as a place where careers end. Apparently Detroit was not on Kessel's list of 8 teams. Commodore, White, Weiss, Sammy, Brunner, Tootoo, Cole, Legwand, Monster all struggled once coming here for different reasons. The only successes we've had are Alfie and maybe Zidlicky. Bad juju.

Edited June 15, 2015 by number9

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Backman was never going to be a Red Wing, and Janmark didn't really progress at all with his new team. I assume the deal was "I'm not giving you a first, how bout a second?" "I need a prospect too" "Ok, how bout these 2 guys I'm not going to use, but you might be able to"

Reality is, the cupboard really is overfull. We've traded 3 prominent prospects in the last few years. And we're losing decent draft picks like Wheaton and McNulty... and Quine a few years back.

I trust management knows who doesn't have a realistic shot as a wing, thus they become tradeable assets. They might not get us Yandle's of the world, but they get a Cole, or a Legwand all right.

What I'm worried about is Detroit becoming known as a place where careers end. Apparently Detroit was not on Kessel's list of 8 teams. Commodore, White, Weiss, Sammy, Brunner, Tootoo, Cole, Legwand, Monster all struggled once coming here for different reasons. The only successes we've had are Alfie and maybe Zidlicky. Bad juju.

The curse of uncle Todd.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

If Holland trades Mantha or a 1st in a package for Phaneuf who will be a 3rd or 4th defenseman then he should be fired immediately. A top pair d-man ok maybe.

But im not throwing in the towel on mantha yet and the Wings shouldn't either.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Datsyukian-Deke

[number9 3,297]

The curse of uncle Todd.

That's why we drafted baby-tuzzi, to break the curse

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Backman was never going to be a Red Wing, and Janmark didn't really progress at all with his new team. I assume the deal was "I'm not giving you a first, how bout a second?" "I need a prospect too" "Ok, how bout these 2 guys I'm not going to use, but you might be able to"

Reality is, the cupboard really is overfull. We've traded 3 prominent prospects in the last few years. And we're losing decent draft picks like Wheaton and McNulty... and Quine a few years back.

I trust management knows who doesn't have a realistic shot as a wing, thus they become tradeable assets. They might not get us Yandle's of the world, but they get a Cole, or a Legwand all right.

What I'm worried about is Detroit becoming known as a place where careers end. Apparently Detroit was not on Kessel's list of 8 teams. Commodore, White, Weiss, Sammy, Brunner, Tootoo, Cole, Legwand, Monster all struggled once coming here for different reasons. The only successes we've had are Alfie and maybe Zidlicky. Bad juju.

I don't know , somehow I got a feeling cause it was Nill and he and holland are good friends, he somehow convinced holland to get more than he should of ... I Just don't like giving up good assets for guys who have brought nothing to help the team ... Anyways it's over now and I hope he thinks twice before trading mantha or someone else of value before he makes a deal

Man that list of guys you named that's what I'm talking about ... seeing that list ... Just brutal

As for kessel I'm not really worried about him , just hope and think we won't give up on mantha just yet , we got a ton of good kids upfront , we need to draft d's this year ... If we have 6picks I'd say 4-5 gotta be d's

[Echolalia 2,961]

I don't know , somehow I got a feeling cause it was Nill and he and holland are good friends, he somehow convinced holland to get more than he should of ... I Just don't like giving up good assets for guys who have brought nothing to help the team ... Anyways it's over now and I hope he thinks twice before trading mantha or someone else of value before he makes a deal

Man that list of guys you named that's what I'm talking about ... seeing that list ... Just brutal

As for kessel I'm not really worried about him , just hope and think we won't give up on mantha just yet , we got a ton of good kids upfront , we need to draft d's this year ... If we have 6picks I'd say 4-5 gotta be d's

In fairness to Holland this conversation would likely be going quite differently if he didn't get a season ending injury. Cole was exactly the type of player the Wings needed going into the playoffs.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

In fairness to Holland this conversation would likely be going quite differently if he didn't get a season ending injury. Cole was exactly the type of player the Wings needed going into the playoffs.

Exactly.

Back man was told he needed to get stronger from day one and didn't, then went home when he faced adversity. Janmark is just a so so prospect whoay never play a game in North America, much less be a good NHL player. These were not prominent prospects, and regardless of what anyone thinks they know about negotiations, there's no legitimate reason to believe that Holland just said "uhhhhh take this guy too!!!!" when a lesser package would get the job done. I know people love most of our prospects and think that 4 mediocre pieces = a good player, but the reality is trades aren't nearly as easy to make as most fans pretend.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Exactly.

Back man was told he needed to get stronger from day one and didn't, then went home when he faced adversity. Janmark is just a so so prospect whoay never play a game in North America, much less be a good NHL player. These were not prominent prospects, and regardless of what anyone thinks they know about negotiations, there's no legitimate reason to believe that Holland just said "uhhhhh take this guy too!!!!" when a lesser package would get the job done. I know people love most of our prospects and think that 4 mediocre pieces = a good player, but the reality is trades aren't nearly as easy to make as most fans pretend.

Not every prospect will and can become an NHLer it's just the nature of the business. That being said if the biggest needs of a team are size and players with a mean streak drafting undersized guys and hoping they'll bulk up enough isn't always wise. Sure not every big bodied player will turn out either but all a guy like Nick Ritchie needs to work on is his skating and he will be a force one day.

As far as the prospect thing honestly a lot of people are really overhyping the prospects. There is a reason why other GMs are asking for Mantha, Larkin and nobody else when it comes down to pull of some better trades because other teams do have their own Pulkinnens, Athanas, Marchenko and Outlettes and in the real NHL quantity doesn't net one quality in most cases. Personally I'd rather include Nyquist or Tatar in a trade before Mantha, Larkin because right now Mantha is the best bet at becoming a top 6 center one day, plus Mantha came back from a serious injury and just finished his first AHL season. Sure for the right deal everyone is available but the fact is this the Seabrooks' of the world aren't available and unless a defenseman of that stature becomes available Holland should be very hesitant to trade Larkin or Mantha.

That's why I think Phaneuf is a good option he won't cost a kings ransom, is experienced and still decently aged should have at least another 4 good years left and something people at some point have to get used to: he actually has the Wings on his list of teams he would be willing to go to...which isn't an usual thing these days..i.e Kessels list

[krsmith17 7,191]

Put me in the group of people that would prefer to trade one of Nyquist or Tatar before either Larkin or Mantha.

[jthiel86 43]

I really don't think Mantha is cut out to be a center...

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

I don't know , somehow I got a feeling cause it was Nill and he and holland are good friends, he somehow convinced holland to get more than he should of ... I Just don't like giving up good assets for guys who have brought nothing to help the team ... Anyways it's over now and I hope he thinks twice before trading mantha or someone else of value before he makes a deal

Man that list of guys you named that's what I'm talking about ... seeing that list ... Just brutal

As for kessel I'm not really worried about him , just hope and think we won't give up on mantha just yet , we got a ton of good kids upfront , we need to draft d's this year ... If we have 6picks I'd say 4-5 gotta be d's

Maybe in hindsight, but Cole would have been a difference maker for us in the playoffs. Also, let's not pretend Holland added players in just because there friends, that's just ridiculous.

You value prospects too highly, they really aren't worth anything unless you have a top 10 pick or until they prove themselves. You said Wings were going to regret Jarnkrok yet I just looked at his stats and we aren't missing anything.

[VM1138 1,921]

The Wings really dropped the ball on this. Refused to trade him, then threw him under the bus (Thanks, Jimmy D!) which I imagine further lowers his trade value. I'm not sure what we'll get for him, if anything, now.

[krsmith17 7,191]

They didn't "drop the ball" on anything... They refused to trade him, for good reason, and they're not all of a sudden trying to trade him. Mantha isn't going anywhere. He will get another season in Grand Rapids and likely push for a spot in Detroit in 2016-17. My bet is he scores at or close to a point per game next season for the Griffins. People are acting like he's a bust after one season of pro...

[xtrememachine1 795]

The Wings really dropped the ball on this. Refused to trade him, then threw him under the bus (Thanks, Jimmy D!) which I imagine further lowers his trade value. I'm not sure what we'll get for him, if anything, now.

Yeah, its really confusing as to why they would just suddenly blast him and publicly say he's a disappointment, then try to trade him? Its okay to think he's a disappointment, but why are we destroying his trade value on purpose? Unless this is some sort of reverse psychology where we say he isn't any good, so everyone wants him now.

I'd like to see Phaneuf in Detroit but as long as we're dropping salary somewhere else. As for his value on the team, he's better than Smith, Kindl, and Ericsson and (not that he could replace him) could fill Lidstrom's by being relied on to do a lot of the same things Lids did while he was here. Leader, big minute defenseman with a big shot from the point. Maybe go after Mike Green to fill the Rafalski role.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Again, show me a quote from someone in the organization that says they're willing to trade Mantha. Jesus, I wish I could be like Cox (minus the bald head) where I can fabricate non-sesne and instantly create fan freakout. You guys are bashing Holland and the organization basely solely on Cox's speculation

Here's a quote from Holland:

I don't think 'willing' is the right word. We've got some people I would consider untouchable, both on the Detroit Red Wings and within the organization. In order to explore what's out there we got to be able to consider parting with some people. I'm not going to tell you where Mantha fits in with that until we explore the trade market."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/06/red_wings_prospect_anthony_man_2.html

It may be deliberately vague, in typical Holland fashion, but Cox says "willing" and Holland says that's not the right word.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Exactly.

Back man was told he needed to get stronger from day one and didn't, then went home when he faced adversity. Janmark is just a so so prospect whoay never play a game in North America, much less be a good NHL player. These were not prominent prospects, and regardless of what anyone thinks they know about negotiations, there's no legitimate reason to believe that Holland just said "uhhhhh take this guy too!!!!" when a lesser package would get the job done. I know people love most of our prospects and think that 4 mediocre pieces = a good player, but the reality is trades aren't nearly as easy to make as most fans pretend.

I know trades aren't easy or we'd have traded for a defensemen years ago ... I'm just saying since Nill and holland are close friends I'm sure Nill used it to his advantage to get a bit more than he should have

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Maybe in hindsight, but Cole would have been a difference maker for us in the playoffs. Also, let's not pretend Holland added players in just because there friends, that's just ridiculous.

You value prospects too highly, they really aren't worth anything unless you have a top 10 pick or until they prove themselves. You said Wings were going to regret Jarnkrok yet I just looked at his stats and we aren't missing anything.

Where did I say holland added a player cause he's friends with a gm? Geez ... I was here sayin we should get cole cause he'd be a good fit and shouldn't cost as much since he was a older ufa and not an elite guy

I don't think I was overvalued jarnkrok at the time ... He was considered our number 1 prospect for along time and and I think he was even at the time of the trade? Not sure

Made top nhl prospect lists , praised by andersen and other scouts ... And we give him up along with a 2nd for david legwand of all people?

When the trade happened wings organization basically said he was a bust so we wouldn't be pissed off ...anyways it's far too soon to say he's gonna be a bust , I think at the least he's gonna be a 3rd line guy ... We'll see

I'm over it cause I see a lot of potential coming up .... And I'd much rather give up Gus or Tatar than a mantha in a deal

[rick zombo 3,739]

I know trades aren't easy or we'd have traded for a defensemen years ago ... I'm just saying since Nill and holland are close friends I'm sure Nill used it to his advantage to get a bit more than he should have

You don't know this. Pure speculation. Maybe Nill wanted more than fringe talent. Maybe Holland used his friendship with Nill to give up less.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

They didn't "drop the ball" on anything... They refused to trade him, for good reason, and they're not all of a sudden trying to trade him. Mantha isn't going anywhere. He will get another season in Grand Rapids and likely push for a spot in Detroit in 2016-17. My bet is he scores at or close to a point per game next season for the Griffins. People are acting like he's a bust after one season of pro...

Also had to deal with a big injury ....missing camp and exhibition games, jumped straight into the games which you know took him some time to get comfortable and ended the season with 15 goals

No way he's not getting 30+ next season ... He's already at the gym getting ready for next year which shows he's committed to put in the work

You don't know this. Pure speculation. Maybe Nill wanted more than fringe talent. Maybe Holland used his friendship with Nill to give up less.

Never said it's what happened ... Obviously don't have proof, no one does , it's my opinion just like everyone here has their own opinions on stuff

Never claimed to be eklund

[rick zombo 3,739]

Never said it's what happened ... Obviously don't have proof, no one does , it's my opinion just like everyone here has their own opinions on stuff

Never claimed to be eklund

Yeah yeah, I know the rhetoric. Just your opinion. Except you said "I'm sure". And you can't be sure because you don't know.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Yeah yeah, I know the rhetoric. Just your opinion. Except you said "I'm sure". And you can't be sure because you don't know.

Fine ... I believe that's what happened ... Better ?