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The Bowman Effect

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I don't understand your hatred for Bowman. After 4 stellar years of coaching the Blues the Canadiens hired him where he won 5 cups. They brought him in for a reason, because he brings the best out of the team and knows how to make them win. Red Wings would win zero Cups had Bowman not shown up.

As a GM what exactly did he do to you FlashyG? How did this man hurt you so much?

When I think of 'among worst GM' I think along the lines of Mike Milbury... there's just no chance Bowman is so terrible, he wouldn't have the success he did if he was terrible at personnel changes.

exaggerated claims hurt my heart

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I'm going to go ahead and say it.

Scotty Bowman is the most overrated person in hockey history.

He was a great coach, that's not in question but as a GM he was absolutely terrible, and he gets credit for millions of things he has absolutely nothing to do with.

His is also incredibly opportunistic, in that he jumps from team to team that are on the cusp of winning and rides his predecessors work to add to his hardware collection. The only time in his entire career where he was tasked with building something was in Buffalo, and it was the only stop on his ride where he didn't succeed.

I don't think Stan Bowman gets anywhere near the credit he deserves, Scotty lives nowhere near Chicago and has next to no impact on the day to day workings of the Blackhawks, yet when the Hawks win 3 cups in such a short span its not the GM that gets the credit, it goes to his 81 year old father who wasn't half the GM his son is.

It's hard to find anyone on earth more overrated when you consider someone in this thead thinks your cup chances improve simply by writing Scotty Bowman on any type of paycheck.

Overrated a bit? Perhaps. Most certainly by some here. But the opportunistic angle I don't hold against him.

What's wrong with the best teams wanting the best coach?

You want to land the best coach? You better have a good team.

If you're the best coach, you want to coach the best team.

It's pretty simple to me. I'd call it a luxury of being the among the best in the business for a long time more than I'd characterize it as opportunistic.

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Overrated a bit? Perhaps. Most certainly by some here. But the opportunistic angle I don't hold against him.

What's wrong with the best teams wanting the best coach?

You want to land the best coach? You better have a good team.

If you're the best coach, you want to coach the best team.

It's pretty simple to me. I'd call it a luxury of being the among the best in the business for a long time more than I'd characterize it as opportunistic.

Why would he stay with a declining team, when teams on the rise are calling and judging by all his accomplishments Bowman has picked his spots tremendously well.

Guy is a winner pure and simple.

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Why would he stay with a declining team, when teams on the rise are calling and judging by all his accomplishments Bowman has picked his spots tremendously well.

Guy is a winner pure and simple.

I dont think anyone is judging him for jumping around from team to team, but rather questioning the impact he had on all those teams.

I think the answer is situational. In Pittsburgh he came into a situation where he was coaching the defending cup champs and ended up repeating, his impact is probably moderate.

In Detroit I believe he had a huge impact, I dont know if we win those 3 cups if not for Scotty.

In Chicago, my gut feeling tells me he had nothing to do with it. He probably gives an opinion here and there, but ultimately probably has nothing to do with it.

This is all guess work on my part though. Who really knows. Unless you could go back in time and change things, nobody can prove anything.

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I don't understand your hatred for Bowman. After 4 stellar years of coaching the Blues the Canadiens hired him where he won 5 cups. They brought him in for a reason, because he brings the best out of the team and knows how to make them win. Red Wings would win zero Cups had Bowman not shown up.

As a GM what exactly did he do to you FlashyG? How did this man hurt you so much?

When I think of 'among worst GM' I think along the lines of Mike Milbury... there's just no chance Bowman is so terrible, he wouldn't have the success he did if he was terrible at personnel changes.

I don't hate Bowman, I think he's the greatest coach in NHL history. As a GM however he was bad, very bad.

I didn't say he was the worst though, there are many GM's who were even worse than he was, but that doesn't make his record as a GM any better.

He won 5 cups with Montreal, but he had no part in building those teams. Sam Pollock built them, and the core of those teams were in place before Bowman took over as coach.

With the Wings Bowman had to be stripped of his GM powers because he was attempting to trade Yzerman to Ottawa for Alexei Yashin. He played a huge role in their success in his time here, but as a coach, not as a builder of the teams, that credit should go to Jim Devellano, Jim Nill, Bryan Murray, Hakan Andersson and most of all Ken Holland.

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Overrated a bit? Perhaps. Most certainly by some here. But the opportunistic angle I don't hold against him.

What's wrong with the best teams wanting the best coach?

You want to land the best coach? You better have a good team.

If you're the best coach, you want to coach the best team.

It's pretty simple to me. I'd call it a luxury of being the among the best in the business for a long time more than I'd characterize it as opportunistic.

I was just pointing out that he's not the type of guy who can build a team. He is, however fantastic at taking an assembled team and getting the most out of them.

Bowman is often treated as a god, whose mere presence within an organization will bring them cups. (Call it the Bowman effect). When in reality he just always picked the team that was most likely to be the next big winners and attached his cart to that horse. He's a fantastic coach, but he's no god.

Edited by FlashyG

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I don't hate Bowman, I think he's the greatest coach in NHL history. As a GM however he was bad, very bad.

I didn't say he was the worst though, there are many GM's who were even worse than he was, but that doesn't make his record as a GM any better.

He won 5 cups with Montreal, but he had no part in building those teams. Sam Pollock built them, and the core of those teams were in place before Bowman took over as coach.

With the Wings Bowman had to be stripped of his GM powers because he was attempting to trade Yzerman to Ottawa for Alexei Yashin. He played a huge role in their success in his time here, but as a coach, not as a builder of the teams, that credit should go to Jim Devellano, Jim Nill, Bryan Murray, Hakan Andersson and most of all Ken Holland.

He is exactly the type of guy to build a team, and there's literally, pages upon pages in google or bing that prove this. He was the GM in St. Louis for 2 of 3 years and it was his knowledge of the players that resulted in such a successful draft to begin the expansion. His understanding of player personnel is legendary and that's why teams keep doubling his salary to come on board. You make it sound as if he forces his way into these teams, it's the other way around, they doubled his salary from Mtl to Buf to Pit to Det. Granted his impact in Chicago is limited, I'll agree to that, besides the fact that Stan is the product of his seed, so maybe his impact is a little more then we like to admit.

Regarding Yzerman, everything is rumor, you and I will never know the full details of what transpired. Yes, Bowman and Yzerman fueded, but the trade was probably more of a scare tactic then anything. As such, you and I will have two different opinions on something that never happened. So you can't judge a legacy for something that again, never happened. In the end, Yzerman became exactly the type of player Bowman wanted. As we all know Bowman was the master of getting into your head to get what he wanted, is it coincidence then?

His influence in the trades in Pittsburg are known. And here's a short list of players picked up when Bowman was special advisor to Wings and then when he left when Holland

took over.

Bowman Special Advisor Era:

2005 - 2008

  • Mikael Samuelsson
  • Andreas Lilja
  • Chris Osgood
  • Dominik Hasek
  • Danny Markov
  • Brian Rafalski
  • Brad Stuart (trade)
  • Marian Hossa

Holland Era:

2009 - 2015

  • Todd Bertuzzi
  • Jason Williams
  • Mike Modano
  • Carlo Colaiacovo
  • Mikael Samuelsson
  • Stephen Weiss
  • Daniel Alfredsson
  • Marek Zidlicky (trade)
  • Erik Cole (trade)
  • Jordan Tootoo
Edited by LAWings

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<p>

He is exactly the type of guy to build a team, and there's literally, pages upon pages in google or bing that prove this. He was the GM in St. Louis for 2 of 3 years and it was his knowledge of the players that resulted in such a successful draft to begin the expansion. His understanding of player personnel is legendary and that's why teams keep doubling his salary to come on board. You make it sound as if he forces his way into these teams, it's the other way around, they doubled his salary from Mtl to Buf to Pit to Det. Granted his impact in Chicago is limited, I'll agree to that, besides the fact that Stan is the product of his seed, so maybe his impact is a little more then we like to admit.

Regarding Yzerman, everything is rumor, you and I will never know the full details of what transpired. Yes, Bowman and Yzerman fueded, but the trade was probably more of a scare tactic then anything. As such, you and I will have two different opinions on something that never happened. So you can't judge a legacy for something that again, never happened. In the end, Yzerman became exactly the type of player Bowman wanted. As we all know Bowman was the master of getting into your head to get what he wanted, is it coincidence then?

His influence in the trades in Pittsburg are known. And here's a short list of players picked up when Bowman was special advisor to Wings and then when he left when Holland

took over.

Bowman Special Advisor Era:

2005 - 2008

  • Mikael Samuelsson
  • Andreas Lilja
  • Chris Osgood
  • Dominik Hasek
  • Danny Markov
  • Brian Rafalski
  • Brad Stuart (trade)
  • Marian Hossa
Holland Era:

2009 - 2015

  • Todd Bertuzzi
  • Jason Williams
  • Mike Modano
  • Carlo Colaiacovo
  • Mikael Samuelsson
  • Stephen Weiss
  • Daniel Alfredsson
  • Marek Zidlicky (trade)
  • Erik Cole (trade)
  • Jordan Tootoo

Osgood was already here before. They knew what they had with him so they brought him back, it was some evil genius plan by bowman.

Hossa? Really? He called the wings and asked them if he could sign with them. Again bowman had no effect whatsoever on that decision.

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