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DatsyukianDekes

#73 OA - Defenseman Vili Saarijarvi

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I will start off by saying this is a decent pick that has potential. This kid is compared to Vatanen who looked like a stud for Anaheim in the playoffs with his speed and passing ability. I get it, he's smaller then most would want but the higher end skill is there and is pretty obvious from the videos I have watched of him.

Here is his 14-15 season in a nutshell, pretty impressive if you ask me:

2014-2015
U18 WJC All-Star Team
U18 WJC Best Defenseman
U18 WJC Most Assists by Defenseman (6)
U18 WJC Most Goals by Defenseman (3)
U18 WJC Most Points by Defenseman (9)
U18 WJC Silver Medal
U18 WJC Top 3 Player on Team
USHL All-Rookie Second Team

Helene St. James ‏@HeleneStJames 15m15 minutes ago
Third round, RedWings draft defenseman Vili Saarijarvi, 5-10 Finn. HE SHOOTS RIGHT!!!

Lord Stanley ‏@Pandaramaaa 7m7 minutes ago Helsinki, Finland
@HeleneStJames Faster than Darren Helm. Unique.

Dennis Schellenberg ‏@ScoutingFactory 16m16 minutes ago
Red Wings arent afraid to pick what they think is best for them Saarijarvi is a smallish D but was the best Finnish D at the U18 #RedWings


http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=122954

Edited by darkmanx

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If you're comparing the three to Rafalski solely on size, Jensen isn't a great comparison... He's 6'1", nearly 200lbs. The other two on the other hand are very small, even smaller than Rafalski. Rafi was 5'10", Saarijarvi is 5'9" and Hicketts is 5'8"... I'd be shocked if either of the latter two make the Red Wings...

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I've seen Saarijarvi listed at 5-10...and he's only 18. Give him a few years to develop and you might have a 5-10, 190 lb RH defensman who can fly. If he doesn't fill out you have a RH Adam Almqvist who can skate and that still might be good enough to make it. Hell...the Adam Almqvist who couldn't skate as well almost made it. Hicketts? who knows...there seems to be so much offensive upside there, but 5-8 might be too short even for me.

Thanks to hockeystreams.com and Roku...I've seen a lot of nick Jensen over the past two years. He's an NHL caliber dman. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't get a real shot at camp this year

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I've seen Saarijarvi listed at 5-10...and he's only 18. Give him a few years to develop and you might have a 5-10, 190 lb RH defensman who can fly. If he doesn't fill out you have a RH Adam Almqvist who can skate and that still might be good enough to make it. Hell...the Adam Almqvist who couldn't skate as well almost made it. Hicketts? who knows...there seems to be so much offensive upside there, but 5-8 might be too short even for me.

Thanks to hockeystreams.com and Roku...I've seen a lot of nick Jensen over the past two years. He's an NHL caliber dman. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't get a real shot at camp this year

Yeah, 5'10" can cut it in this league (Rafalski, Koivu, Versteeg, Briere, Timonen, P. Kane) Any smaller and it's less likely that they'll make it to the NHL. Even then there's the St. Louis, Marchands, Hudlers, and Cammalleris of the world.

Saarijarvi is listed as 5'10" in these places:

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/06/detroit_red_wings_select_finni.html

http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectdetail.htm?dpid=93876

He's 5'9" in these places, but whose to say how up to date they keep these kinds of websites

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=177677

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=122954

I'll wait until I see him to judge him. Size is only 1 factor.

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I consider anyone under 5'11" to be on the small end in today's game. I don't see why you would list forwards. I have no problem drafting small, skilled forwards. We have one in Tomas Tatar and another one coming up full time next season in Teemu Pulkkinen that I'm really excited about... I don't like drafting small, skilled defensemen. I think the chance of success as a defender decreases drastically when they lack size. I'm not saying you need to draft big hulking guys with no skill, but there's not a doubt in my mind that there were much better options available when we picked Saarijarvi... There are only about 10 defenders in the league right now that I would consider undersized, none of which I would consider top pair defensemen and none I would want on this team... That's just my opinion though... Some may want a Krug, Ellis, Vatanen or Enstrom, I'd pass on all 4...

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I consider anyone under 5'11" to be on the small end in today's game. I don't see why you would list forwards. I have no problem drafting small, skilled forwards. We have one in Tomas Tatar and another one coming up full time next season in Teemu Pulkkinen that I'm really excited about... I don't like drafting small, skilled defensemen. I think the chance of success as a defender decreases drastically when they lack size. I'm not saying you need to draft big hulking guys with no skill, but there's not a doubt in my mind that there were much better options available when we picked Saarijarvi... There are only about 10 defenders in the league right now that I would consider undersized, none of which I would consider top pair defensemen and none I would want on this team... That's just my opinion though... Some may want a Krug, Ellis, Vatanen or Enstrom, I'd pass on all 4...

Not a big fan of Ellis or Enstrom, but Krug or Vatanen would be a big upgrade for the Wings. Shattenkirk, Barrie, Stralman, Goligoski, Wisniewski... Kronwall is undersized for a defenseman.

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Not a big fan of Ellis or Enstrom, but Krug or Vatanen would be a big upgrade for the Wings. Shattenkirk, Barrie, Stralman, Goligoski, Wisniewski... Kronwall is undersized for a defenseman.

Kronwall is listed at 6'0"

I wouldn't really call him undersized. Maybe average

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Kronwall is listed at 6'0"

I wouldn't really call him undersized. Maybe average

Of the 307 defensemen to play in the league last year, only 75 were 6'0 of shorter. 6'1" is even on the small side. 113 are 6'3" or taller.

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I consider anyone under 5'11" to be on the small end in today's game. I don't see why you would list forwards. I have no problem drafting small, skilled forwards. We have one in Tomas Tatar and another one coming up full time next season in Teemu Pulkkinen that I'm really excited about... I don't like drafting small, skilled defensemen. I think the chance of success as a defender decreases drastically when they lack size. I'm not saying you need to draft big hulking guys with no skill, but there's not a doubt in my mind that there were much better options available when we picked Saarijarvi... There are only about 10 defenders in the league right now that I would consider undersized, none of which I would consider top pair defensemen and none I would want on this team... That's just my opinion though... Some may want a Krug, Ellis, Vatanen or Enstrom, I'd pass on all 4...

They are instantly better then some of our dmen right off the hop but you won't take them because of there height, pretty ridiculous. It's like Leaf media, Kessel comes to camp "over weight" yet scores PPG but they don't want him on the team.

We have 3 defensemen that are bigger then them yet play smaller then them just to put things into perspective.

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I consider anyone under 5'11" to be on the small end in today's game. I don't see why you would list forwards. I have no problem drafting small, skilled forwards. We have one in Tomas Tatar and another one coming up full time next season in Teemu Pulkkinen that I'm really excited about... I don't like drafting small, skilled defensemen. I think the chance of success as a defender decreases drastically when they lack size. I'm not saying you need to draft big hulking guys with no skill, but there's not a doubt in my mind that there were much better options available when we picked Saarijarvi... There are only about 10 defenders in the league right now that I would consider undersized, none of which I would consider top pair defensemen and none I would want on this team... That's just my opinion though... Some may want a Krug, Ellis, Vatanen or Enstrom, I'd pass on all 4...

Cause I was showing guys 5'10" that have made the league. I was showing my point - didn't know I was supposed to read your mind and respond to your line of thinking. If you want to restrict the converstaion to D men, fine. You've listed a number of guys 5'10" and under who have made it to the NHL. I would also add Tyson Barrie. We do actually have some big guys on D, if Vili is a great offensive guy it would be fine to have one undersized guy back there.

I appeciate that you thought there were better options. I haven't judged the pick, yet myself since I don't know much about him. I just don't think that size is everything (insert penis joke here).

I would like very much if he became Krug, Rafalski, Ryan Ellis, Tyson Barrie...

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Buppy, like I said previously, under 5'11" is what "I" consider small for a defenseman. I have no problem with skilled defenseman at that size, but when they are 5'10", 5'9" or 5'8", that's a bit undersized in my opinion... So no, I don't consider Kronwall to be too small, or Eriksson, who is also 6'0" by the way, Shinzaki...

I also disagree that any of those 4 guys would make our blue line better. Sure, they may provide a bit of offense, but none are great defensively. I'd take a Kyle Quincey over a Torey Krug any day. That's just my opinion.

PavelValerievichDatsyuk, no, you didn't have to read my mind. I thought it was pretty clear we were talking about defensemen here...

Anyway, I'm not thrilled about the pick, but like I said numerous times in the "Draft" thread, I'll reserve judgement for now... I hope this kid becomes a stud.

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Buppy, like I said previously, under 5'11" is what "I" consider small for a defenseman. I have no problem with skilled defenseman at that size, but when they are 5'10", 5'9" or 5'8", that's a bit undersized in my opinion... So no, I don't consider Kronwall to be too small, or Eriksson, who is also 6'0" by the way, Shinzaki...

I also disagree that any of those 4 guys would make our blue line better. Sure, they may provide a bit of offense, but none are great defensively. I'd take a Kyle Quincey over a Torey Krug any day. That's just my opinion.

PavelValerievichDatsyuk, no, you didn't have to read my mind. I thought it was pretty clear we were talking about defensemen here...

Anyway, I'm not thrilled about the pick, but like I said numerous times in the "Draft" thread, I'll reserve judgement for now... I hope this kid becomes a stud.

The kid is 18 years old, he might grow a little.

Karlsson is listed as 5'11 180 pounds, and they are being generous. I am pretty sure he does ok playing top minutes against guys way bigger then him, but I guess if this kid reaches 5'10 he's a write off because of that 1 extra inch.

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I agree with krsmith.

I also believe today's NHL premiers the offensive D-men. I'm fine with that, IF you as a defense man prioritize defense first, THEN can find offensive within the system implemented by the coaches. Seems some do not agree with that. Well good luck with that, at least you're in prime position to contend for the draft lottery.

The qualities of a defense man in following order (to me):

1. Defensive skill and positioning (Lidström best in this category of all time), superior skating also in this point

2. Size, strength and hitting, also corner skills reside here

3. Outlet passing + superior understanding and feel of the game

4. Offensive skills

5. Death Ray shot from the blue line capable of breaking bones.

So to conclude he clearly doesn't have size, but could still be a top 4 backend. Time will tell.

I think Victor Hedman fills all of these points as a reference defense man in my oponion. But then again he was drafted at number 2, not 73.

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Sure, he could grow a little more, but most teenage guys stop growing at 17-18... And sure, he could make the NHL someday, but right off the bat, odds are against him because of lack of size...

I'm going to say this one last time... I don't like the pick because there were several other players available that I am much higher on. You and several others like the pick, and that's completely fine. We'll see in a few years how it turns out, and I'll be rooting for the kid to make it every step of the way.

Where are you seeing Karlsson listed at 5'11"??? It must be a very obscure website... I've checked NHL.com, eliteprospects.com, hockeydb.com, hockey-reference.com, and thehockeynews.com... Every single one have him listed at 6'0"... So no, he is not at all undersized, and even if he were listed at 5'11", like I stated several times now, I don't see that as being completely undersized either...

I'm not even sure why we're even talking about Erik Karlsson anyway? This is a guy that was a steal at 15th overall in 2008. We drafted Saarijarvi 73rd overall, and as far as I know, he wasn't on anyone's rankings. I know he didn't meet NHL Central Scouting's top 120 European skaters... We went completely off the board for this one, let's hope it pays off like it has many times in the past...

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