Phil Kessel Traded to Penguins

[kipwinger 8,518]

About as many as he normally does...maybe less.

You know how many goals Chris Kunitz scored on Crosby's wing? About as many as he did before he was on Crosby's wing.

Hossa on Datsyuk's wing? Same has before he was on Datsyuk's wing.

Playing on Crosby's wing isn't going to make Kessel into Ovechkin.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

The Pens have lost more significant man games to injury than any other team since 2009. I had a thread about that recently. If they can ever stay healthy, they can make another Cup run. There's definitely a correlation in the league, at least since 2009, with injuries and Cup contending.

About as many as he normally does...maybe less.

You know how many goals Chris Kunitz scored on Crosby's wing? About as many as he did before he was on Crosby's wing.

Hossa on Datsyuk's wing? Same has before he was on Datsyuk's wing.

Playing on Crosby's wing isn't going to make Kessel into Ovechkin.

You don't think a top centerman can't affect a winger's goal production? It's happened throughout history. Or are you saying goalies are so good now that it doesn't matter? Or are you saying that Kessel sucks?

Edited July 1, 2015 by GMRwings1983

[xtrememachine1 795]

Good trade for the Pens. Basically gave up nothing, Tor is eating part of the salary and Kessel will score a TON of goals with Crosby and/or Malkin. However, offense was never a problem. This team will still struggle in the postseason.

[amato 3,210]

"@leahhextall: With Kessel gone now just one player on Toronto's roster makes more than Babcock!"

[kipwinger 8,518]

The Pens have lost more significant man games to injury than any other team since 2009. I had a thread about that recently. If they can ever stay healthy, they can make another Cup run. There's definitely a correlation in the league, at least since 2009, with injuries and Cup contending.

You don't think a top centerman can't affect a winger's goal production? It's happened throughout history. Or are you saying goalies are so good now that it doesn't matter? Or are you saying that Kessel sucks?

No, I'm saying that for the centerman and the winger to have a great affect on one another their styles need to be complimentary. Kessel and Crosby are too similar. For Crosby to score 100+ points, he needs to have (and shoot) the puck...a lot. How is that going to increase Kessel's production? If Kessel were going to be playing on Joe Thorton's wing I'd agree that you'd see a bump in his numbers. But Crosby doesn't really have that affect on his linemates. Production wise, they're about as good with him as without.

Pittsburgh's team may be better overall, but Kessel isn't going to be (more of) a scoring machine, because Crosby isn't really a "feed the puck to a winger all game" kind of player.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

How can Pittsburgh afford this cap wise?

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

How can Pittsburgh afford this cap wise?

They don't have a defense.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

No, I'm saying that for the centerman and the winger to have a great affect on one another their styles need to be complimentary. Kessel and Crosby are too similar. For Crosby to score 100+ points, he needs to have (and shoot) the puck...a lot. How is that going to increase Kessel's production? If Kessel were going to be playing on Joe Thorton's wing I'd agree that you'd see a bump in his numbers. But Crosby doesn't really have that affect on his linemates. Production wise, they're about as good with him as without.

Pittsburgh's team may be better overall, but Kessel isn't going to be (more of) a scoring machine, because Crosby isn't really a "feed the puck to a winger all game" kind of player.

If I'm not mistaken, Crosby is top 5 all time in assists per game. So yes, he does dish it off a lot.

It's kind of like how Gretzky was perceived as a pass first guy, but he scored almost 900 goals.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Cros and Kess.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

They don't have a defense.

Something something letang

[amato 3,210]

They don't have a defense.

Or a bottom six, really

[marcaractac 3,962]

Pens were already a team with too much money tied up in too few players. This does not solve that problem.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

This is what a real athlete looks like.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

About as many as he normally does...maybe less.

You know how many goals Chris Kunitz scored on Crosby's wing? About as many as he did before he was on Crosby's wing.

Hossa on Datsyuk's wing? Same has before he was on Datsyuk's wing.

Playing on Crosby's wing isn't going to make Kessel into Ovechkin.

Uh....no.

Hossa scored 29 in the year previous then scored 40 when paired with Datsyuk. Then in the years following 24, 25, 29. What was the difference? Playing with Datsyuk.

Kunitz has got as high as 35 with Crosby. Previously with the Ducks his highest was 25. Also the mean number is higher during his time with Crosby.

Did you not think someone would check it?

Edited July 1, 2015 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[amato 3,210]

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/resources/images/2876440/

Phil Kessel

I don't know why that won't show up right..

Edited July 1, 2015 by amato

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Something something letang

Overrated something something maatta.

[BadgerBob 297]

Overrated something something maatta.

Pouliot isn't bad either. Other than those two they aren't much.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Uh....no.

Hossa scored 29 in the year previous then scored 40 when paired with Datsyuk. Then in the years following 24, 25, 29. What was the difference? Playing with Datsyuk.

Kunitz has got as high as 35 with Crosby. Previously with the Ducks his highest was 25. Also the mean number is higher during his time with Crosby.

Did you not think someone would check it?

Crosby is one of the best players in the world, and certainly the best center Kunitz ever played with, and in only one, outlier, year did he significantly improve Kunitz' goal total. Every other year in Pittsburgh Kunitz has been exactly what he was emerging into in Anaheim, a mid 20s goal scorer.

Likewise, Pavel Datsyuk is by far the best center Hossa ever played with, and he made Hossa a 40 goal scorer...something that Hossa had done four times before ever playing with Datsyuk. Hell, he didn't even reach his goal scoring zenith with Datsyuk feeding him. At least you could argue that Crosby and Kunitz did that together (albeit an outlier). Hossa was a BETTER goal scorer without Datsyuk.

But I'll make it easier. I'll bet you $100 dollars, to a charity of your choice, if Crosby significantly improves Kessel's goal scoring (since that was the original point of debate). Since Kessel is already one of the best goal scorers in the league, and since Crosby is one of the best centers in the league, a "significant improvement" in Kessel's goal scoring should equate to him ending the season top three in goal scoring and/or scoring 50 goals.

Deal?

Edited July 1, 2015 by kipwinger

[marcaractac 3,962]

Crosby is one of the best players in the world, and certainly the best center Kunitz ever played with, and in only one, outlier, year did he significantly improve Kunitz' goal total. Every other year in Pittsburgh Kunitz has been exactly what he was emerging into in Anaheim, a mid 20s goal scorer.

Likewise, Pavel Datsyuk is by far the best center Hossa ever played with, and he made Hossa a 40 goal scorer...something that Hossa had done four times before ever playing with Datsyuk. Hell, he didn't even reach his goal scoring zenith with Datsyuk feeding him. At least you could argue that Crosby and Kunitz did that together (albeit an outlier). Hossa was a BETTER goal scorer without Datsyuk.

But I'll make it easier. I'll bet you $100 dollars, to a charity of your choice, if Crosby significantly improves Kessel's goal scoring (since that was the original point of debate). Since Kessel is already one of the best goal scorers in the league, and since Crosby is one of the best centers in the league, a "significant improvement" in Kessel's goal scoring should equate to him ending the season top three in goal scoring and/or scoring 50 goals.

Deal?

I like how you always try to use betting $100 to win arguments.

[Jacksoni 418]

Dupuis scored 6 goals in 16 games and Kunitz scored 17 in 74. Adding a 30 goal scorer will be huge for them.

Their window is closing in a few years with Crosby and Malkin getting older. Good deal for them.

They just need Defence. I'd keep Erhoff if I were them.

Exactly. This trade has to be sen in this context and when you do it makes sense. I'm not saying it's going to work. Just that it makes sense. If they click somehow, it could get scary. Unlikely though. Will be interesting to follow for sure.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Jacksoni

[kipwinger 8,518]

I like how you always try to use betting $100 to win arguments.

I like how everybody on LGW thinks they are 100% right, but never takes a bet. The point of contention is that I don't think Crosby will significantly impact Kessel's goal scoring. They do. Easy enough to see who's right, who's wrong, and who's just arguing for the sake of it.

[marcaractac 3,962]

I like how everybody on LGW thinks they are 100% right, but never takes a bet. The point of contention is that I don't think Crosby will significantly impact Kessel's goal scoring. They do. Easy enough to see who's right, who's wrong, and who's just arguing for the sake of it.

To be fair, nobody on this site falls in the "i'm always right" category more then you.

Crosby will make Kessel better. That's what great players do. Hockey 101.

[kipwinger 8,518]

To be fair, nobody on this site falls in the "i'm always right" category more then you.

Crosby will make Kessel better. That's what great players do. Hockey 101.

The last time I bet someone you seemed to like it. And literally "liked it". So I'm not sure what your issue is. Here's a link. This one's fun because it has to do with Mike Green and what he'd sign for. Which...I got 100% right. So it's not like I'm betting to "win arguments". I'm betting because I think I'm right in those instances, and am willing to back it up.

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/79142-report-jeff-petry-and-munn-tree-all-ruin-2015-free-agency/page-2?hl=%2Bgreen+%2Bfranson+%2Bmartin#entry2613120

Edited July 1, 2015 by kipwinger

[marcaractac 3,962]

The last time I bet someone you seemed to like it. And literally "liked it". So I'm not sure what your issue is. Here's a link. This one's fun because it has to do with Mike Green and what he'd sign for. Which...I got 100% right. So it's not like I'm betting to "win arguments". I'm betting because I think I'm right in those instances, and am willing to back it up.

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/79142-report-jeff-petry-and-munn-tree-all-ruin-2015-free-agency/page-2?hl=%2Bgreen+%2Bfranson+%2Bmartin#entry2613120

Yup, because I agreed with what you said. Not the fact that you were throwing around bets. Just because I think betting is an immature and silly way to win arguments, and the fact that I think you're wrong about Crosby/Kessel, doesn't mean you are always wrong.

But if me liking that particular post helps ya sleep tonight, then glad I can help.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Yup, because I agreed with what you said. Not the fact that you were throwing around bets. Just because I think betting is an immature and silly way to win arguments, and the fact that I think you're wrong about Crosby/Kessel, doesn't mean you are always wrong.

But if me liking that particular post helps ya sleep tonight, then glad I can help.

So it's silly so long as you don't agree with it, in which case you like it?

How much to you think Crosby is going to increase Kessel's goal scoring? Throw a number out there. Kessel's already about a 30-35 goal scorer. So what do you think Crosby's affect on Kessel translates into, in terms of goal production? Just spitball, I'm not expecting you to have a crystal ball or anything?

Edited July 1, 2015 by kipwinger