signed Red Wings sign D Mike Green (3-years, $18-million)

[number9 3,297]

Truth be told I'm always on the fence when it comes time for what number should be placed back into circulation.

I agree with you that Dmac played a significant part with those teams back then - however was he that important that his number shouldn't be re-issued?

I'm ok with Green using 25, but that's just me...I'm sure Mickey will mention something relating to Dmac once in a while when the focus is on Green.

Didn't Commodore wear 25? Didn't Emmerton wear 25?

[kipwinger 8,522]

McCarty - like Probert - was your typical Canadian 'blue collar' workhorse who played hard both on, and off the ice.

Guys like that can be identified with by the average fan - whereas Fedorov at times was aloof.

Lets not kid ourselves - Dmac going after Lemieux was not only celebrated by Wings fans, but fans of hockey.

I agree that Feds played a much greater role on the team than McCarty - however he's a fan favorite regardless of his personal life.

People can like him all they want to. I'm not trying to talk anybody out of their opinions. But that's a very different thing than having his number unofficially retired, as some here are suggesting. He didn't earn that. He may have had some important highlights, but he never treated himself, the organization, or the city with the respect it deserves. And as a result, he doesn't get to have any of the priveleges that go along with it. The organization threw him a bone in 2008. That's about all the favors "Dmac" should ask for, expect, or receive IMO.

[number9 3,297]

Poor Ogrodnick. If only he had punched more ppl in the face Dmac would never even have had the opportunity to wear 25.

[Rivalred 630]

Thread derailed due to a number given out and folks not happy

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Truth be told I'm always on the fence when it comes time for what number should be placed back into circulation.

I agree with you that Dmac played a significant part with those teams back then - however was he that important that his number shouldn't be re-issued?

I'm ok with Green using 25, but that's just me...I'm sure Mickey will mention something relating to Dmac once in a while when the focus is on Green.

I'm not saying the number should be retired but if someone is coming into the organization they should know a bit about the history right? I mean signing with another team to me also means looking at the tradition, how things are done and learn about the beloved players in the city.

I mean Super Mario's number is not retired league wide and yet nobody is wearing 66 out of respect. Or another example even if Pasha won't have his number retired 13 will always be Pasha for me.

Guys like DMac are so easy to like they've worked hard to make to the but show and then they've worked even harder to stay on the team and add a very important dimension. And this is not just Wings specific there is a reason why guys like Clark, Tucker and Gilmore are some of the most beloved Leafs ever although not the most talented. If people don't like him fine but to act like 25 isn't a special number is wrong for a lot of fans it is and always will be.

I mean if Green really wants the number that much at least do the classy thing and ask DMac if it's ok for him. I'm more than sure he would have said sure go ahead and the optics would be a lot different.

Edited September 14, 2015 by frankgrimes

[kipwinger 8,522]

Did you just favorably compare Darren McCarty to Mario Lemieux, Pavel Datsyuk, Doug Gilmour, and Wendell Clark?

Edited September 14, 2015 by kipwinger

[number9 3,297]

I'm not saying the number should be retired but if someone is coming into the organization they should know a bit about the history right? I mean signing with another team to me also means looking at the tradition, how things are done and learn about the beloved players in the city.

I mean Super Mario's number is not retired league wide and yet nobody is wearing 66 out of respect. Or another example even if Pasha won't have his number retired 13 will always be Pasha for me.

Guys like DMac are so easy to like they've worked hard to make to the but show and then they've worked even harder to stay on the team and add a very important dimension. And this is not just Wings specific there is a reason why guys like Clark, Tucker and Gilmore are some of the most beloved Leafs ever although not the most talented. If people don't like him fine but to act like 25 isn't a special number is wrong for a lot of fans it is and always will be.

I mean if Green really wants the number that much at least do the classy thing and ask DMac if it's ok for him. I'm more than sure he would have said sure go ahead and the optics would be a lot different.

Again, why is it different for Green than it was for Commodore and Emmerton? I'm sure I'm forgetting others who wore 25 after Dmac as well

[frankgrimes 1,836]

it's not different I didn't like it back then either.

[kipwinger 8,522]

So do you think that people should have to ask permission to wear 18, 30, 33, 24, 26, or 91 as well?

[number9 3,297]

it's not different I didn't like it back then either.

And yet you only brought up the issue now

[krsmith17 7,191]

What I'm more confused about is why you (frank) think for some reason that Green is unaware of the history in Detroit, or what McCarty brought to this team back in the 90's... Or that for whatever reason McCarty isn't or wouldn't be okay with Green wearing his old number... I'm sure Darren doesn't have any issue whatsoever with Green sporting number 25. In fact he recently said in an interview directed at Green, "hey, Mike Green, there's a lot of points left in that jersey. I expect to see them out of you this year.", then he went on to say, "I couldn't be happier for someone of his caliber, and character to wear my number. I'm proud of that, but I expect him to put a lot more points up. I got all the fights out of it, he doesn't have to fight, he just has to score goals on the PP'...

[barabbas16 499]

I'm not saying the number should be retired but if someone is coming into the organization they should know a bit about the history right? I mean signing with another team to me also means looking at the tradition, how things are done and learn about the beloved players in the city.

I mean Super Mario's number is not retired league wide and yet nobody is wearing 66 out of respect. Or another example even if Pasha won't have his number retired 13 will always be Pasha for me.

Guys like DMac are so easy to like they've worked hard to make to the but show and then they've worked even harder to stay on the team and add a very important dimension. And this is not just Wings specific there is a reason why guys like Clark, Tucker and Gilmore are some of the most beloved Leafs ever although not the most talented. If people don't like him fine but to act like 25 isn't a special number is wrong for a lot of fans it is and always will be.

I mean if Green really wants the number that much at least do the classy thing and ask DMac if it's ok for him. I'm more than sure he would have said sure go ahead and the optics would be a lot different.

Did McCarty say he was pissed about this or something?

[number9 3,297]

I'm still pissed at Hudler for wearing 26 and White/Andersson for wearing 18

[frankgrimes 1,836]

What I'm more confused about is why you (frank) think for some reason that Green is unaware of the history in Detroit, or what McCarty brought to this team back in the 90's... Or that for whatever reason McCarty isn't or wouldn't be okay with Green wearing his old number... I'm sure Darren doesn't have any issue whatsoever with Green sporting number 25. In fact he recently said in an interview directed at Green, "hey, Mike Green, there's a lot of points left in that jersey. I expect to see them out of you this year.", then he went on to say, "I couldn't be happier for someone of his caliber, and character to wear my number. I'm proud of that, but I expect him to put a lot more points up. I got all the fights out of it, he doesn't have to fight, he just has to score goals on the PP'...

I have said I'm sure he would have been ok with it. Your quote confirms that.

yeah Green should put up points but his job is to prevent the other team from scoring too.

As far as the history is concerned I don't think every player is aware of all the traditions in different organizations but when they sign there I'm sure they'll learn about and appreciate it.

Mike Babcock said it best playing in the NHL is great but playing for an Original 6 franchise is greater.

Edited September 14, 2015 by frankgrimes

[rick zombo 3,739]

[e_prime 1,936]

I'm still pissed at Hudler for wearing 26 and White/Andersson for wearing 18

I HATE NUMBERS.

[Rivalred 630]

I HATE NUMBERS.

Think we should start a thread and petition to start switching to symptoms such as example below

Pavel #

Hank %

Howard @

Franzen ?

[barabbas16 499]

Think we should start a thread and petition to start switching to symptoms such as example below

Pavel #

Hank %

Howard @

Franzen ?

Oh man, I've been feeling somewhat % recently... I'm afraid I might need back surgery.

[HockeytownUW 18]

I'm not saying the number should be retired but if someone is coming into the organization they should know a bit about the history right? I mean signing with another team to me also means looking at the tradition, how things are done and learn about the beloved players in the city.

I mean Super Mario's number is not retired league wide and yet nobody is wearing 66 out of respect. Or another example even if Pasha won't have his number retired 13 will always be Pasha for me.

Guys like DMac are so easy to like they've worked hard to make to the but show and then they've worked even harder to stay on the team and add a very important dimension. And this is not just Wings specific there is a reason why guys like Clark, Tucker and Gilmore are some of the most beloved Leafs ever although not the most talented. If people don't like him fine but to act like 25 isn't a special number is wrong for a lot of fans it is and always will be.

I mean if Green really wants the number that much at least do the classy thing and ask DMac if it's ok for him. I'm more than sure he would have said sure go ahead and the optics would be a lot different.

I don't mean to be beating a dead horse here, nor do I specifically mean to be calling out you, Frankgrimes, but surely I cannot be the only one who remember's McCarty tweeting something overtly and openly positive when Cory Emmerton took over #25 in 2012. My Google-Fu is lacking at the moment, but I distinctly recall D-Mac tweeting out something like "Best player to carry on the tradition of #25" when it was made official. @D-Mac25, which as far as I can tell was McCarty's twitter handle (evidence here) has since been suspended for reasons unknown, but the fact remains it didn't appear he was at all against someone else taking on his number - why should we as fans hold a grudge if he didn't/doesn't? And that being said, do we honestly expect guys to cow-tow to the fans' enthusiasm for each and every player who has worn a jersey number? I think the precedent has been well established with a newcomer joining a team having to "buy" a number off of a guy who preceded him on the roster - but the crucial thing being if it is an active roster player! If Green is supposed to check with each of the (living) 31+ players to have sported the #25 for the Wings before stepping on the ice, I think we're going to run into issues. As long as it's not retired, or some well-known EXCEPTIONAL case like Aurie or Vladdy, any number that Paul Boyer freely assigns should be good with us.

Perhaps a bit more back on track, I remember a few years back when Green was a Norris contender thanks to all the points he put up in Washington - and the outrage that this garnered from the Red Wings / Nick Lidstrom faithful saying how he wasn't a true "defensive defenseman." With that in mind: would you rather have the point production out of him that the team seems to have been lacking in recent years, or a shut-down D-Man to limit the opponent's goals against?

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I don't mean to be beating a dead horse here, nor do I specifically mean to be calling out you, Frankgrimes, but surely I cannot be the only one who remember's McCarty tweeting something overtly and openly positive when Cory Emmerton took over #25 in 2012. My Google-Fu is lacking at the moment, but I distinctly recall D-Mac tweeting out something like "Best player to carry on the tradition of #25" when it was made official. @D-Mac25, which as far as I can tell was McCarty's twitter handle (evidence here) has since been suspended for reasons unknown, but the fact remains it didn't appear he was at all against someone else taking on his number - why should we as fans hold a grudge if he didn't/doesn't? And that being said, do we honestly expect guys to cow-tow to the fans' enthusiasm for each and every player who has worn a jersey number? I think the precedent has been well established with a newcomer joining a team having to "buy" a number off of a guy who preceded him on the roster - but the crucial thing being if it is an active roster player! If Green is supposed to check with each of the (living) 31+ players to have sported the #25 for the Wings before stepping on the ice, I think we're going to run into issues. As long as it's not retired, or some well-known EXCEPTIONAL case like Aurie or Vladdy, any number that Paul Boyer freely assigns should be good with us.

Perhaps a bit more back on track, I remember a few years back when Green was a Norris contender thanks to all the points he put up in Washington - and the outrage that this garnered from the Red Wings / Nick Lidstrom faithful saying how he wasn't a true "defensive defenseman." With that in mind: would you rather have the point production out of him that the team seems to have been lacking in recent years, or a shut-down D-Man to limit the opponent's goals against?

It's corrected now I mean if Dmac is not only ok but also honored by it that's great. For sure nobody should have to phone 31 + players but I think getting in touch with the guy who wore it before and is beloved by the fans is a classy thing to do.

I would chosse the shutdown D-man because the job of a defender is well...to defend and that to means prevent the other team from scoring. Sure guys like Lidstrom and Niedermayer put up unbelievable numbers but they were also elite defensively and made the right decision day in night out. I expect Green to put up points on the powerplay but I also expect him to prevent the other team from scoring and not be a defensive liability, otherwise the points he'll add on the PP won't mean much because the GA would also increase.

[number9 3,297]

It's corrected now I mean if Dmac is not only ok but also honored by it that's great. For sure nobody should have to phone 31 + players but I think getting in touch with the guy who wore it before and is beloved by the fans is a classy thing to do.

I would chosse the shutdown D-man because the job of a defender is well...to defend and that to means prevent the other team from scoring. Sure guys like Lidstrom and Niedermayer put up unbelievable numbers but they were also elite defensively and made the right decision day in night out. I expect Green to put up points on the powerplay but I also expect him to prevent the other team from scoring and not be a defensive liability, otherwise the points he'll add on the PP won't mean much because the GA would also increase.

If you expect Green to prevent goals like Lids and Niedermayer then you should already be disappointed with this signing

[marcaractac 3,963]

It's corrected now I mean if Dmac is not only ok but also honored by it that's great. For sure nobody should have to phone 31 + players but I think getting in touch with the guy who wore it before and is beloved by the fans is a classy thing to do.

I would chosse the shutdown D-man because the job of a defender is well...to defend and that to means prevent the other team from scoring. Sure guys like Lidstrom and Niedermayer put up unbelievable numbers but they were also elite defensively and made the right decision day in night out. I expect Green to put up points on the powerplay but I also expect him to prevent the other team from scoring and not be a defensive liability, otherwise the points he'll add on the PP won't mean much because the GA would also increase.

This is why you build teams with a little thing called balance. Guess what happens if all your D is shutdown dmen? Your team doesn't score goals and end up on the wrong side of 1-2 and 2-1 games. Green is expected to play responsible hockey, he is not expected to come in and play shut down defense. That's why he is paired with DeKeyser.

[HockeytownUW 18]

If you expect Green to prevent goals like Lids and Niedermayer then you should already be disappointed with this signing

It's hard, nay, damn near impossible to replace St. Nick - anyone who's watched half a dozen Wings' games should be able to attest to that fact. However, that in and of itself shouldn't make someone disappointed with the signing. Do you think Franson would provide a better back end presence to the team? Frankly I'm intrigued to see what Green can do on the blueline with DeKeyser, or on the power play with Kronwall. The Lidstroms and Niedermayers of the hockey world are few and far between, but this was a Norris-trophy caliber D-Man only a few seasons ago. At the stage of his career, with the arsenal of weapons bristling out of this team, is there any reasonable doubt whether he could get to 50-52 points on the year, landing him in the top 10 of last season's D-men? The purely defensive edge of things is harder to quantify, to be sure, but the Wings have been missing a powerplay QB and diversified outlet passing for the past few seasons.

Edited September 14, 2015 by HockeytownUW

[kipwinger 8,522]

Stay at home defense is overrated. I'd rather have guys who can get to loose pucks, get them up the ice, and make plays in the neutral and offensive zones. It's better to have guys that can do something effective with the puck, than guys who clear the crease, block shots, etc. because for them to do what they're good at, you've got to be hemmed into your own zone.

I've posted this before. It's Daryl Sutter on why playing defense is overrated. It pretty much sums up how I feel about this topic.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2014-03-10/la-kings-news-darryl-sutter-quotes-corsi-for-definition-sidney-crosby

Here are a few more good articles on the subject:

http://www.si.com/nhl/2015/07/27/puck-possession-game-makes-small-fast-defensemen-most-valuable-in-NHL

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/24981849/the-decline-of-the-shot-blocking-crease-clearing-defenseman

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2014/12/30/7464149/nick-leddy-new-york-islanders-nhl-prototype-defenseman

Edited September 14, 2015 by kipwinger

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Green can (and probably will) be a disaster defensively and I won't care. The Wings have enough d-men that are defensive minded and aren't particularly adept at moving the puck and adding offense from the back end. Plus, Green will have the most responsible d-man on the team as his partner.

It's like Tatar and scoring goals. He's kinda careless with the puck and not great defensively, but he brings a skill to the ice that the Wings don't have in abundance otherwise. Green can do his thing and it will be a huge boost -- something severely lacking since Nick and Rafalski left.