signed Red Wings sign D Mike Green (3-years, $18-million)

[frankgrimes 1,836]

It's hard, nay, damn near impossible to replace St. Nick - anyone who's watched half a dozen Wings' games should be able to attest to that fact. However, that in and of itself shouldn't make someone disappointed with the signing. Do you think Franson would provide a better back end presence to the team? Frankly I'm intrigued to see what Green can do on the blueline with DeKeyser, or on the power play with Kronwall. The Lidstroms and Niedermayers of the hockey world are few and far between, but this was a Norris-trophy caliber D-Man only a few seasons ago. At the stage of his career, with the arsenal of weapons bristling out of this team, is there any reasonable doubt whether he could get to 50-52 points on the year, landing him in the top 10 of last season's D-men? The purely defensive edge of things is harder to quantify, to be sure, but the Wings have been missing a powerplay QB and diversified outlet passing for the past few seasons.

I know that he can't be replaced. And yes, I would have prefered Franson, he is a big body, somewhat physical (an area the wings are lacking heavily in), reliable in his own end and can put up some points too. Is he a top pairing guy? No, but neither is Green.

Green for the Norris back then was a joke and still is. If he is a liability in his own end I expect him to end up on the third pairing just like he did in Washington. If he can QB the PP and not be a liability in his own end then this could be a good signing. it's up to him

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Cody Franson is as reliable as a rusted out 86 Geo Metro

Edited September 15, 2015 by DickieDunn

[rick zombo 3,739]

Cody Franson is as reliable as a rusted out 86 Geo Metro

But apparently he's "physical". That's hockey's equivalent of a Brazilian butt for Frank.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Franson is a right-handed Kyle Quincey with a decent shot. I think Quincey is even more physical of the two. Green fills a much larger void on defense than Franson would have.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Franson is a right-handed Kyle Quincey with a decent shot. I think Quincey is even more physical of the two. Green fills a much larger void on defense than Franson would have.

Yep thats exactly what he is and why he was paired with Phaneuf for most of the season. Laviolette and his all run and gun style was the perfect miss match for Franson.

Green was the 5 defenseman on the Caps so how about some realism here. The expectations for him are already too high and he hasn't even played a game yet how about waiting how he will fit in under Blashill? and yeah given the choice between Franson at 3,3 and green at 6 per I'd take Franson.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

It took Franson two months into free agency to get a contract. There's probably a good reason no team was willing to pay him more.

If you are using the Caps defense to judge Green, that's a deep and talented group. Being the #5 there isn't necessarily a knock against Green.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

It took Franson two months into free agency to get a contract. There's probably a good reason no team was willing to pay him more.

If you are using the Caps defense to judge Green, that's a deep and talented group. Being the #5 there isn't necessarily a knock against Green.

yeah that was just strange I don't think he is a top pairing guy but someone you can trust on the second pairing.

Green has yet to show that he is more than a very good QB on the PP.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

yeah that was just strange I don't think he is a top pairing guy but someone you can trust on the second pairing.

Green has yet to show that he is more than a very good QB on the PP.

Neither was Brian Rafalski and look what a huge difference he made for the Red Wings. Having d-men that can move the puck and start the transition game in hockey is critical in today's game. I think it's a huge reason the Wings have struggled at even strength lately -- the forwards are capable, but the defense struggles to get them going.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Neither was Brian Rafalski and look what a huge difference he made for the Red Wings. Having d-men that can move the puck and start the transition game in hockey is critical in today's game. I think it's a huge reason the Wings have struggled at even strength lately -- the forwards are capable, but the defense struggles to get them going.

is it important? of course it is but it can't be the only thing a defender is good at, which is why the Norris has become such a joke.

If Green pulls a Rafalski I'd be more than happy and the first to admit I was wrong.

[number9 3,297]

is it important? of course it is but it can't be the only thing a defender is good at, which is why the Norris has become such a joke.

If Green pulls a Rafalski I'd be more than happy and the first to admit I was wrong.

If Green pulls a Rafalski you don't need to admit error. Just be positively surprised.

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

I mean thats why the wings played better with that guy Mrazek, Frank you know that scrub who made our transition game much simpler and our defense look better, transition is VERY important especially when you consider the pace some of these games are played at.

[number9 3,297]

I mean thats why the wings played better with that guy Mrazek, Frank you know that scrub who made our transition game much simpler and our defense look better, transition is VERY important especially when you consider the pace some of these games are played at.

Mraz helped the PP a lot too

[kipwinger 8,524]

Who was that one offensive defenseman who kept the puck out of his own zone by essentially being another foward on the ice? You know, the one who was always jumping into the play and carrying the puck deep into the o-zone. I can't remember his name, but I swear he was pretty good. I mean, obviously not as good as a stay at home guy...of course.

[number9 3,297]

Who was that one offensive defenseman who kept the puck out of his own zone by essentially being another foward on the ice? You know, the one who was always jumping into the play and carrying the puck deep into the o-zone. I can't remember his name, but I swear he was pretty good. I mean, obviously not as good as a stay at home guy...of course.

He couldn't skate backwards... because he didn't need to skate backwards

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

This is just my opinion but the Norris goes to the defenseman who has the greatest impact on the league and also the biggest reason for his team winning, lots of guys are the reason for their team winning(Suter,Keith etc) But what kind of impact did they have on the league how many points did they put up? I think Subban is just as valuable to the Canadiens as Keith is to the Hawks, which is why you see a lot of offensive defensemen win the trophy not only did they lead the league in points for defensemen but where would their teams be without them, Montreal and Ottawa don't have Toews and Kanes

P.S I don't have the best grammar so if I made any mistakes don't judge lol.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Saying "he's not defensively responsible" is most frequently just a vague way for most people to justify their own personal dislike for a player. The difference in defensively ability between guys like Keith, Subban, and Karlsson is miniscule.

Nobody (whose job security involves winning hockey games) would put those guys on the ice as often as they do, and give them as much money as they do, if they only contribute on offense. A 50-60 point, offensive, forward doesn't make as much money as P.K. Subban or Erik Karlsson . They don't play as much either. Yet their detractors all seem to suggest that a 50-60 point forward is all they are. It's bogus.

Edited September 15, 2015 by kipwinger

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Lets not kid ourselves here...It's not like we're gonna possess the puck the entire game, and score 5 plus goals against our opponents each, and every night.

Green isn't a Norris Trophy calibre Dman - at least not anymore...If he thinks he can do whatever he wants, and disregard his responsibilities in his own end - well - expect alot of unhappy campers here at LGW.

exactly being a defender involves preventing the other team from scoring which in turn means clearing the crease, box out opponents, dish out hits, block shots or if needed drop the gloves.

It's nice that green will add points on the PP but he also will have to prevent instead of just expecting Danny D. to do the dirty work for him.

Edited September 15, 2015 by frankgrimes

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

exactly being a defender involves preventing the other team from scoring which in turn means clearing the crease, box out opponents, dish out hits, block shots or if needed drop the gloves.

It's nice that green will add points on the PP but he also will have to prevent instead of just expecting Danny D. to do the dirty work for him.

No, preventing the other team from scoring involves good puck possession. If you have good puck possession then you don't have to clear the crease, box out opponents, hit people as much because they don't have the puck. You do...

Now obviously you don't have the puck the entire game. Duh. But having players who can carry the puck and take it up ice minimized those opportunities.

Plain and simple.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

For those that are worried about his defensive game, first of all, he had the highest +/- on the Caps last year with +15. That's also higher than anyone on our team. He'll also be partnered with DK, whom I sure is a better on the defensive side than anyone he might have been paired with last year.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Green's most important "defensive" attribute is his ability to gain control of the puck, and lead the breakout, either by skating the puck out of the zone or making an excellent first pass. People who haven't watched Washington much don't realize how physical Mike Green is. He is very good as separating opposition players from the puck. And when he does, it's going the other way in a hurry.

I think one of the key differences between Blashill and Babcock centers around this exact concept. Babs did not let any of his defensemen (other than Kronwall on occasion) skate with the puck. Their job was to gain possession, and look to dump the puck off to a forward. This does a couple of things. A) Makes the team easier to defend because you know where the puck is going, B) Makes the defensemen more vulnerable to the forecheck, C) Means that when your d-men turn the puck over, it will probably be in your zone, and D) Curtails the effectiveness of your zone entries.

Obviously it remains to be seen how Blash will handle D to O transitions. But I'm optimistic. Letting your d-men skate with the puck should play into Green's skillset, but also improve Smith and Kindl's games (as they're both weak against the forecheck, but really good skaters).

Edited September 16, 2015 by kipwinger

[kipwinger 8,524]

Forgive my ignorance for I've only seen Green play several times a season (if that), but when reading/hearing about his defensive lapses - what are fans/critics pointing out?

From what I've seen - he skates like the wind, and has no issues moving the puck like Coffey had 20 years ago...Is he getting caught up ice too often, or does he get confused (like Smith) and leave a forward all alone in the crease by chasing the puck carrier?

Well, any defenseman that gambles offensively will get caught now and again and you'll see odd man rushes the other way. This is true of Green, but was also true of Orr, Coffey, etc. It's a fact of life. Teams that employ guys like that tend to assume that the offense they generate will outweigh the chances against over a whole season. So there's that.

But I don't really think of that as a "defensive lapse". I think of it as an opportunity cost, which coaches feel is worth the risk. Otherwise, the traditional notions of "defensive lapses" don't really apply. He's sound positionally. Doesn't throw the puck away. Gets to loose pucks with ease. And (as I've mentioned) is surprising physical.

I think Green is the victim of narrow perception. If you think that there's only one way to play defense (e.g. block shots, clear the crease, etc.), and someone doesn't do those things, then you'll naturally assume they don't play defense well. But that's really only one way of looking at defense. Another is that, if you're really good at keeping the puck in the O-zone, then you're playing defense by default. For example: People always say Gretzky was bad defensively. But that's only true if you have a narrow definition of defense. He was great defensively, because when he was on the ice, the puck was never in his team's defensive zone.

[number9 3,297]

Being really good offensively so that it reduces the amount of time you have to play defense is way different than being good at executing defensive plays, though they serve a similar purpose.

Dekeyser is there to take the puck away, Green is there to keep the puck away.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I've always shied away from the Franson comparisons because for whatever reason people feel the need to denigrate one player, if they like another. But I don't think he's comparable to Quincey.

Cody Franson is a good player. He's a legit top four defenseman on about any team in the league. That said, there are things he's good at, and things he isn't. When people say he's "physical" they seem to be talking about his body checking ability, which is true. But he's not particularly great on the boards, he doesn't block shots, he doesn't clear creases. He was considerably less physical than Phaneuf while in TO.

Offensively, he doesn't have the handles that a guy like Green has, nor does he have the speed or the wrist shot. But he's got a really good slap shot/one timer, and he's an excellent passer with very good vision.

Franson will score you some points, contribute on the powerplay, and occasionally lay a guy out in the open ice. But because his offense is limited to his slapper, and because he can't skate well, he's not going to be a strong possession guy.

It doesn't make him a bad player, and he's certainly no Kyle Quincey (whom I love, but who is not comparable). I think the guy he most reminds me of is Sami Salo (minus all the injuries). But that's just my opinion.

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

The only reason I'd take franson over Quincey is if we needed a right handed offensive d-man good thing our gm snagged up the best one in FA and signed two kids who are right handed and OFFENSIVE defensemen, we didn't need Franson, we didn't even have cap space for him.

[number9 3,297]

Last season

Green: 72 gp, 82 hits, 93 blocked shots, 159 shots on net

Franson: 78 gp, 177 hits, 132 blocked shots, 125 shots on net

Edited September 16, 2015 by number9