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LeftWinger

Nyquist Files For Arbitration

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Mainly because he's consistently shown that when young guys accept the bridge deal, if they deliver, Kenny will bring the $$$ to the next negotiations. I think it'll be 3.5-4 over 2 or 3 years.

Thing is, this will be Nyquist's third contract. It's already the "next negotiations". He didn't do much in the NHL on his first deal, so didn't earn much for his second. But he VASTLY out-performed that second deal. Tatar by contrast showed little in his first callups, but had a solid rookie year, and earned nearly 3 times what Nyquist got for his 2nd deal.

Some RFA deals in the cap era for reference:

Datsyuk: 2nd contract, 3 seasons, 209 games, 53g (.25), 154p (.74), 39 playoff games, 3g (.08), 12p (.31) = $3.9M x 2 yrs, cap at the time $39M (cap adjusted $7.14M)

Zetterberg: 2nd contract, 2 seasons, 140 games, 37g (.26), 87p (.62), 16 playoff games, 3g (.19), 5p (.31) = $2.65M x 4 yrs, cap $39M (cap adjusted $4.85M)

Hudler: 2nd contract, 1 season+, 92 games, 16g (.17), 28p (.30), 6 playoff games, 0g, 2p (.33) = ~$1M x 2 yrs, cap $50.3M (cap adjusted ~$1,4M)

Hudler: 3rd contract, 3 seasons+, 255 games, 52g (.20), 127p (.50), 51 playoff games, 9g (.18), 28p (.55) = *$2.875 x 2 yrs, cap $56.8M (adjusted ~$3.6M)

Filppula: 2nd contract, 2 seasons, 155 games, 29g (.19), 54p (.35), 40 playoff games, 8g (.20), 16p (.40) = $3M x 5 yrs, cap $56.7M (adjusted ~$3.8M)

Franzen: 2nd contract, 1 season, 80 games, 12g (.15), 16p (.20), 6 playoff games, 1g (.17), 3p (.50) = $~940k x 3 yrs, cap $44M (~$1.5M)

Tatar: 2nd contract, 1 season+, 100 games, 24g (.24), 47p (.47), 5 playoff games, 0g, 0p = $2.75 x 3, cap $69M (~$2.85M)

Helm: 2nd contract, 1 season+, 98 games, 11g (.11), 25p (.26), 53 playoff games, 7g (.13), 10p (.19) = ~$900k x 2, cap $59.4M (~$1.1M)

Helm: 3rd contract, 3 seasons+, 248 games, 32g (.13), 83p (.33), 65 playoff games, 10g (.15), 16p (.25)= $2.125 x 4, cap *$70.2M

Abby: 3rd contract, 2 seasons+, 209 games, 18g (.09), 47p (.22), 37 playoff games, 3g (.08), 5p (.14)= $1.8M x 4, cap *$70.2M

Nyquist's stats: 179 games, 59g (.33), 115p (.64), 30 playoff games, 3g (.10), 7p (.23)

Closest comparable production-wise is Zetterberg. Slightly worse regular season, but better playoff. I don't think at that point he had played much center, but probably considered better defensively. Ice time/role at that stage was comparable, though Hank was doing some PK time. Hudler could also be considered comparable, but I suspect that contract was artificially low due to him heading to the KHL.

In light of that, plus recent RFA deals, $4.5M seems both fair market-wise and is consistent with past deals. Tatar probably should have gotten more, and Abby a little less. In both cases likely due to the amount of experience.

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This exactly. I dont know how people are on this Tatar bandwagon after only 1 year good performance. Nyquist has proven is skill at the AHL level and 2 years in a row with NHL level.

Either way if he wants to play here he should take a pay cut compared to Saad and other ridiculous deals going on. 6 million is ridiculous given our current situation and he knows it too. Nyquist could be the face of this organization and create a legacy. It's a matter of whether or not he wants to take it. Z took it and so did Datsyuk. Look where it got them; we're talking potential jersey retirements in another thread..

If Nyquist learned half of anything from Z I hope it's to be a team first guy at the very least. I have heard his team mates on fox tease him about how he copies Z's dressing style so godamit copy the humilty!

Don't be brainwashed by Holland's lowball offers and it really doesn't matter what the situation is, it's the job of a GM to figure it out not the job of a player who is signing his third contract and has outperformed expectations by a mile.

Something like 1,5 million a year is more than just a pay cut that's exactly 25 % less than Saad is making on an annually basis. Z took a contract which isn't possible anymore and even if it were the circumstances were much different back then , players lined up left and right to play here and this team was a cup contender on a yearly basis...That's not the case anymore.

But both sides now have almost two months to get something done so that should be enough to figure something out.

Also Nyquist is represented by Newport sports and they are known for getting the best deals possible , so unless the new deal doesn't at least start with a 5 and then some Goose would be stupid to accept it.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Don't be brainwashed by Holland's lowball offers and it really doesn't matter what the situation is, it's the job of a GM to figure it out not the job of a player who is signing his third contract and has outperformed expectations by a mile.

Something like 1,5 million a year is more than just a pay cut that's exactly 25 % less than Saad is making on an annually basis.

I mean it really does matter what the situation is otherwise you wouldn't have players taking pay cuts to be in organizations they like. There's some that follow money but others that make informed decisions on where they feel they can achieve personal and team success. It's a business of money AND success. Nyquist may be offered 6 million by Columbus just like Saad was, but would he really have a shot at winning the cup there more than he would here with say a 4.75 mill salary?

I'd take my chances with Detroit over Columbus or Buffalo.

Edited by kickazz

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I mean it really does matter what the situation is otherwise you wouldn't have players taking pay cuts to be in organizations they like. There's some that follow money but others that make informed decisions on where they feel they can achieve personal and team success. It's a business of money AND success. Nyquist may be offered 6 million by Columbus just like Saad was, but would he really have a shot at winning the cup there more than he would here with say a 4.75 mill salary?

I'd take my chances with Detroit over Columbus or Buffalo.

How often has this happened in the not so distant past ? Sure Toews and Kane took a pay cut but they are already getting paid a huge amount of money. Players can't keep their AAV down anymore because of the stupid new rules.

Buffalo just added a future star center in Eichel and a very good second line center with ROR they aren't ready yet but their future is very very bright. Columbus needs defense just like the Wings do. Wings also have to replace 2 former elite centers soon and there is nothing even close ... With some luck Larkin will lessen the blow but other than that creativity will be needed.

The thing is a pay cut is something like a few hundred grand but over 20 % less is a very big pay cut maybe you are right and he doesn't care much about it but I am having a hard time Goose would leave over 7 million on the table over 6 years.

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The real issue isn't what Nyquist may or may not get paid. He'll end up getting 4.5 million at a minimum, but could very well be more.

The issue is that we have way too much dead money tied up in Howard, Ericsson, Kindl and Wiess. Next year we have a bunch of RFA's and not enough room to sign them all. And its not like this team is winning cup after cup so its ridiculous to me that we are going to end up with cap problems. Way too much money tied up in a D-corp that really isn't all that special.

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I think you could add Franzen and his salary/production to that list of wasted money.

Yup...this team has real problems going into the 2016-2017 season which is going to at least partially offset the flexibility that should be provided by the influx of youth (and the associated cheap years) the Wings will have.

Edited by greenrebellion

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How much of pay-cut did Toews and Kane really take? List of highest paid players in the NHL:

- Toews - $10.5

- Kane - $10.5

- Ovechkin - $9.538

- Malkin - $9.5

- Subban - $9.0

- Crosby - $8.7

- Perry - $8.625

- Giroux - $8.275

- Getzlaf - $8.25

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How much of pay-cut did Toews and Kane really take? List of highest paid players in the NHL:

- Toews - $10.5

- Kane - $10.5

- Ovechkin - $9.538

- Malkin - $9.5

- Subban - $9.0

- Crosby - $8.7

- Perry - $8.625

- Giroux - $8.275

- Getzlaf - $8.25

Wow I thought Getzlaf would be at 9 + so thanks for the list, need to look more often at generalfanager I guess.

Anyhow:

Toews would have easily gotten a max contract which is 20 % of the salary cap, so that's 13,8 million annually - guy left 3,3 million per year ! on the table that's an enormous paycut as did Kane.

Also the Crosby and Ovechkin deals have been signed before the CBA ended, Toews, Kane, Getzlaf, Perry and Giroux didn't have the luxury of signing front loaded creative longterm deals.

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Wow I thought Getzlaf would be at 9 + so thanks for the list, need to look more often at generalfanager I guess.

Anyhow:

Toews would have easily gotten a max contract which is 20 % of the salary cap, so that's 13,8 million annually - guy left 3,3 million per year ! on the table that's an enormous paycut as did Kane.

Also the Crosby and Ovechkin deals have been signed before the CBA ended, Toews, Kane, Getzlaf, Perry and Giroux didn't have the luxury of signing front loaded creative longterm deals.

So the highest paid player in the league is "taking a paycut" because he isn’t making 20% of the salary cap??? Nobody in their right mind would pay Towes an average annual salary of 13.8 million.

I truly don’t know if you are trolling, or if you really believe this.

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So the highest paid player in the league is "taking a paycut" because he isn’t making 20% of the salary cap??? Nobody in their right mind would pay Towes an average annual salary of 13.8 million.

I truly don’t know if you are trolling, or if you really believe this.

Buffalo would have and I'm sure Winnipeg was prepaired to pay Toews the max and guess what Toews would still have been worth it, also people need to finally understand the differense between pre new CBA and post new CBA AAV terms it's not that hard really.

This stupid line of thinking that nobody deserves maximum is just false, Toews is a top 3 ! player worldwide so he would for sure have gotten it from Winnipeg or someone else with enough cap-space. Can't wait till Stamkos signs his 12,5 AAV or whatever extension and people crying about him not being worth it...

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Buffalo would have and I'm sure Winnipeg was prepaired to pay Toews the max and guess what Toews would still have been worth it, also people need to finally understand the differense between pre new CBA and post new CBA AAV terms it's not that hard really.

This stupid line of thinking that nobody deserves maximum is just false, Toews is a top 3 ! player worldwide so he would for sure have gotten it from Winnipeg or someone else with enough cap-space. Can't wait till Stamkos signs his 12,5 AAV or whatever extension and people crying about him not being worth it...

Salaries don't follow what is legally allowed they follow the precedents of other contracts of similar tiered players.

If the Blackhawak signed Toews and Kane for the 13.5 then the would essentially be saying that those 2 players are both 4.8 million better than Crosby, for instance (or a little less than that since Crosby's deal was a while ago)

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Buffalo would have and I'm sure Winnipeg was prepaired to pay Toews the max and guess what Toews would still have been worth it, also people need to finally understand the differense between pre new CBA and post new CBA AAV terms it's not that hard really.

This stupid line of thinking that nobody deserves maximum is just false, Toews is a top 3 ! player worldwide so he would for sure have gotten it from Winnipeg or someone else with enough cap-space. Can't wait till Stamkos signs his 12,5 AAV or whatever extension and people crying about him not being worth it...

Toronto gave Babs an 8 year 50 million dollar contract. Do you think he's worth that? Do you think quenville and Sutter should now get that? Just remember if it does become the norm coaches will be included in the salary cap come next lockout. Your logic intrigues me. You think just cause someone is good/great and they CAN get a certain salary they should and they deserve it.

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How much of pay-cut did Toews and Kane really take? List of highest paid players in the NHL:

- Toews - $10.5

- Kane - $10.5

- Ovechkin - $9.538

- Malkin - $9.5

- Subban - $9.0

- Crosby - $8.7

- Perry - $8.625

- Giroux - $8.275

- Getzlaf - $8.25

Those seem to be cap hits. Crosby salary was $12M last season, Getzlaf made $8.75M last year and going up to $9.25M next season. Getzlaf pretty much gave ANA a "free year" by making $6M in the finale year of his 8-year contract, cap space be important.

Weber banked $14M last season, and Ovie $10M. But you have to keep in mind throw away years, and also how big of a percentage their cap hits took when initially signed.

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Toronto gave Babs an 8 year 50 million dollar contract. Do you think he's worth that? Do you think quenville and Sutter should now get that? Just remember if it does become the norm coaches will be included in the salary cap come next lockout. Your logic intrigues me. You think just cause someone is good/great and they CAN get a certain salary they should and they deserve it.

He was worth it to Toronto so obviously someone thought 50 mill over 8 years is ok. Quennville will for sure get something equal maybe a bit less to that and no it will not be included into the next CBA because the coaches don't have an union and can be fired anytime.

What I'm saying is this: if a player is good/great and they CAN demand it and more often than not some teams ARE willing to pay it, wheter they deserve it or not will depend on the team. Saad obviously wasn't wroth 6 mill per for the Blachawks but Columbus thought he'll be worth it. The notion of a "fair" contract is different for many teams and like we've seen here also fans I believe if a player is taking a few hundred grands less that's already a huge paycut some might believe 1 - 2 million is a fair paycut. I mean some Blackhawks fans suggested that both would come in at around 8,5 - 9 million annually which was laughable at best.

Also something people have to keep in mind is the other side of the over-ripening effect in the AHL: players are making less money why being there, so they'll look at opportunities to make up for it later.

btw. I'm sure if Kane, Toews, Getzlaf and Perry had the opportunity to structure their contracts like this http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1222| http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1576 their AAV would look a lot "better" but they didn't because the new CBA put in more ridiculous rules.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Wow I thought Getzlaf would be at 9 + so thanks for the list, need to look more often at generalfanager I guess.

Anyhow:

Toews would have easily gotten a max contract which is 20 % of the salary cap, so that's 13,8 million annually - guy left 3,3 million per year ! on the table that's an enormous paycut as did Kane.

Also the Crosby and Ovechkin deals have been signed before the CBA ended, Toews, Kane, Getzlaf, Perry and Giroux didn't have the luxury of signing front loaded creative longterm deals.

Toews isn't even a top 10 player in the league, no way should he be making over 9 million, let alone 13 million.

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Ya dont agree with him?

Eh.

I do and I don't.

I mostly wanted to use the phrase intangibulls**t because I thought it was funny.

I agree Toews isn't a top 10 player in the league skill wise, but he's good to great in every quantifiable category on top of what he brings as a captain, which you can't really put a dollar figure on.

I would be a bit pissed if we had drafted him, and had to pay him that much, but that anger would be mitigated by the fact that he had just brought us 3 cups recently so I can't say how I would feel for sure about it, because it didnt happen.

So I could care less about how much Toews got.

If Larkin become the player Toews is today. I'll be ecstatic, and I understand that well probably be shelling out the kinda money to him as Toews got, because of the contracts that are being handed out now.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter

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Buffalo would have and I'm sure Winnipeg was prepaired to pay Toews the max and guess what Toews would still have been worth it, also people need to finally understand the differense between pre new CBA and post new CBA AAV terms it's not that hard really.

This stupid line of thinking that nobody deserves maximum is just false, Toews is a top 3 ! player worldwide so he would for sure have gotten it from Winnipeg or someone else with enough cap-space. Can't wait till Stamkos signs his 12,5 AAV or whatever extension and people crying about him not being worth it...

Do you know what a "pay-cut" is? A pay-cut is when you take less money then what you used to get. Jonathan Toews NEVER took a pay-cut. http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/chicago-blackhawks/jonathan-toews/

You say Winnipeg & Buffalo were prepared to pay Towes 13.3 million a year? Please post a link to someone from either organization verifying or even hinting to this. Or are you just making up things as if they are facts because it helps your argument?

I don't think Towes is a top 3 player, I think he has been lucky enough to play with great players for the last 6 years, but that is irrelevant to this argument. I'm starting to see your philosophy Frank, you are pissed at the NHL/owners and anytime a player can get as much as they can out of them, you consider it a small "win". Nyquist is the perfect example, you seem to want him to get paid as much as possible even though if he does get a ridicoulas O'Rielly type contract, it hurts the Wings.

No one is disputing with you that these players CAN ask for the moon, what people including myself are saying is that in a team game where the team can only spend so much money with the cap, for a player to take a huge percentage of that money especially when the player is not worth it (ie. O'Rielly) it can and will hurt the team. Players that only look out for themselves are then perceived as selfish and entitled.

There is a reason why guys like Lidstrom & Datsyuk are so well respected around here, they never put themselves first and even though they COULD get more money, they are/were willing to take a slight decrease in salary for the good of the team. They are still paid well, but not to the point where it hurts the team.

Edited by kliq

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Do you know what a "pay-cut" is? A pay-cut is when you take less money then what you used to get. Jonathan Toews NEVER took a pay-cut. http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/chicago-blackhawks/jonathan-toews/

You say Winnipeg & Buffalo were prepared to pay Towes 13.3 million a year? Please post a link to someone from either organization verifying or even hinting to this. Or are you just making up things as if they are facts because it helps your argument?

I don't think Towes is a top 3 player, I think he has been lucky enough to play with great players for the last 6 years, but that is irrelevant to this argument. I'm starting to see your philosophy Frank, you are pissed at the NHL/owners and anytime a player can get as much as they can out of them, you consider it a small "win". Nyquist is the perfect example, you seem to want him to get paid as much as possible even though if he does get a ridicoulas O'Rielly type contract, it hurts the Wings.

No one is disputing with you that these players CAN ask for the moon, what people including myself are saying is that in a team game where the team can only spend so much money with the cap, for a player to take a huge percentage of that money especially when the player is not worth it (ie. O'Rielly) can and will hurt the team. Players that only look out for themselves are then perceived as selfish and entitled.

There is a reason why guys like Lidstrom & Datsyuk are so well respected around here, they never put themselves first and even though they COULD get more money, they are/were willing to take a slight decrease in salary for the good of the team. They are stilled paid well, but not to the point where it hurts the team.

Why "cant you wait" for Stamkos to sign a huge contract? It's odd that get satisfaction from that. Do you think these guys are struggling financially or something?

Good post. :thumbup:

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