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LeftWinger

Nyquist Files For Arbitration

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Historical stats also show that he's replaceable...

Don't forget he's 26 at the start of this season - he wasn't a 20 or 21 year old who just scored 54 points in his rookie season.

He spent 3 years at Maine, 3 seasons in Grand Rapids (where he consistently progressed) then struggled his first 22 Games as a Red Wing - but eventually started to contribute when he understood how.

At 23 years old, how is the progress of Teemu Pulkinnen not exactly the same, if not better than Nyquist's?

Pulkinnen is the same height, 10 LBS heavier with a way better shot, younger and Right Handed.

If we can trade Nyquist in a package for a top pairing RH D-Man, I would certainly look into it...

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I ask myself many things. Asking myself if Hanks next contract will be a problem is not one of them. Kenny will give him a long term deal worth more than he is right now. But in 2 years time it will look like a bargain. He did the same with Dats,Z and Kronwall.

Hank's 7.4mill sounded outragous at first. Then you have guys like Toews (who is no where near the player Hank was in his prime) getting paid 13.4 mill. Almost twice as much.

Pav was getting 6.7 million a year when he was scoring 97 points.

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in 13-14 Nyquist had 48 points and was a +16, Tatar had 39 points and was a +12

in 14-15 Nyquist had 54 points and was a -11, Tatar had 56 points and was a +6

In the playoffs last season, Gus had 2 points, Tats had 4.

They are pretty even stats-wise, so statistical history doesn't prove anything otherwise. Tatar is more of a sniper than Nyquist. Nyquist will be more like Z and Tatar will be a Hossa type player. I just hope that we aren't forced into choosing one or the other. So lets hope Nyquist agrees to a nice cap-friendly contract.

13-14 Nyquist had 48 points in only 57 games while Tatar had 39 in 73 games.

If you look at their numbers with the Griffins:

2011- 12 - Nyquist had 58 points in 56 games and Tatar had 58 points in 76 games

2012 -13 - Nyquist had 60 points in 58 games and Tatar had 49 points in 61 games.

Nyquist has consistently scored more points per game in every season than Tatar except this past 14-15 season where Tatar had a mere 2 more points than him.

So historical stats show Nyquist HAS been the better player. I could take it to another level and look at the shot percentages and shootout percent but you could do that too.

Don't just look at one season where Tatar scored 2 points more than Nyquist and declare him to be a "better" player.

Additionally, their goals scored in AHL and NHL level have been near identical aside from 13-14 year when Nyquist scored 28 goals in less games and Tatar scored 19 in more. So by your own definition that makes Nyquist the "Sniper"

Bringing it back to the point at hand, Nyquist replicated 2 seasons of 27+ goals and his value is high. But I still don't think he'll get 6 mill.

Historical stats also show that he's replaceable...

Pulkinnen is the same height, 10 LBS heavier with a way better shot, younger and Right Handed.

If we can trade Nyquist in a package for a top pairing RH D-Man, I would certainly look into it...

So you want to bank on a player than has nothing to show for at the NHL level quite yet and get rid of one that has. That makes a lot of sense.

Keeping Nyquist for the best deal possible is in the teams best interest. Like him or not. And for the record I'm not a huge Nyquist fan myself, but I am a fan that wants the Detroit Red Wings to win.

4 mill 2 years ideal. If he's consistent he gets a nice deal.

Okay lets be real its Holland so probably 4.75 mill, although I wouldn't be too happy about that personally.

Edited by kickazz

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I ask myself many things. Asking myself if Hanks next contract will be a problem is not one of them. Kenny will give him a long term deal worth more than he is right now. But in 2 years time it will look like a bargain. He did the same with Dats,Z and Kronwall.

Hank?

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lol Nyquist isn't signing a 2 year/$8,000,000 contract...

Arbitrarily speaking, he would probably be awarded something in the $5,500,000 range.

I suggested the trade idea because Hard Capped systems put an emphasis on decision making - decision's like: Is Gustav Nyquist the next Hudler or Filpulla, or is he the next Zetterberg (without the 2 way ability).

All you can do is make that decision based on history, and history suggests that statically speaking - he is probably closer to Hudler/Filpulla range that Hank... But today is trade value is higher than ever.

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I'd welcome a trade if it came down to it, but now since he filed, doesn't that block him from being traded? And if he is signed after SA, aren't we stuck with him for at least 1 year?

If we could trade his rights now and IF that is something Holland was thinking about, I would package him and our 1st (and more) for a legit top line sniper like Taylor Hall. Not suggesting any scenarios, but Edmonton loves 1st round picks, who wouldn't love Nyquist and maybe throw a D man their way with experience to help bring along their youngsters. Totally not going to happen, but if he were to be traded, I think it should be for a sniper. Because yes, I do believe, Nyquist is more along the lines of Filppula, not Z. Even though I did compare him to be more Z-Like than Tatar, doesn't mean he is the next Z. I'd welcome a player like Hall here for his $6M rather than give $6 (or even $5M) to Nyquist.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Left Winger - I agree... same train of thought.

I question:

1. If Nyquist scores 48 points (for example) next season, doesn't his trade value plummet? I don't think 48 points seems way off... And at that point he would certainly look more Hudler than Z.

2. If Anthanasiou scores 60 points as a Griffin next season - Is he not heading down the exact same developmental path as Nyquist/Tatar/Pulkinnen? But as a bigger and more complete player than all three?

My point is that I think we really underestimate our player development system and forget that at some point we need to replace our franchise players... If Nyquist can be used as a legitimate piece to acquire someone with that potential - I absolutely do it.

Don't forget that our patented late round, offensively gifted, yet undersized players don't exactly have a history of lighting it up in the post-season - when it matters.

Edited by WingedWheel91

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You have to ask yourself, what would Dats, Z or Kronner get on the open market? Exactly! Either Nyquist wants to stay in Detroit and be a part of this or he wants top market value money around the NHL. None of these 25-30 goals scorers are "worth" $5M+, yet because of the cap floor and desperate teams to "win" signing sweepstakes, these non superstar players are garnering contracts that are unearned.

Nyquist is not worth $5M-$6M especially not on this team. I am sick of players having a couple good years and then getting "paid" and then falling into obscurity. This is the problem with not having to "prove" that you are constant enough to earn that kind of money. IMO, Nyquist should get a two year deal between $3M-$3.5M to prove he is a consistent 30 goal scorer and even prove he can be in that elite status like Dats and Z, then after 2 years, give him Z and D money (or more.)

I'd hate to lose him, but with the contracts due up next season, and even "better" prospects set to come up within the next few seasons, $6M right now would seriously handcuff this team...seriously. Lets say Nyquist gets awarded $5.5M and goes on to score 30 goals for the next 2 seasons, fine, but also Tatar scores 30 the next two seasons again, then what? Obviously Tatar will garner $6M+ right? He outscored Nyquist already last season, there is no reason to believe that he won't also continue to play just as well. What if when Pulk re-signs a small contract this year for 2 years and he scores 25-30 also? $6M?

I understand Nyquist is good, and he should be one of the next leaders of this team after Pav and Z, BUT, lets come together on a nice bridge deal that gives you a HUGE raise from $1.05M last season to $3.5M for the next two years. Prove to the team that you are consistent enough to get superstar money. Plus help the team out by taking less to be part of it, don't be "that" player who milks the market and then never performs up to the contract expectation, like a ton of players do in this league. Besides, with the likes of Quincey being gone soon, Franzen going the way of Pronger, most likely Howard being traded before his contract expires, there will more money available within 2 years and the team won't be handcuffed or forced to trade or waive players that they really want to keep.

re: Jensen and Callahan, they both have to get signed, sure the cap hit will be minimal, probably less that $1.75M combined, but Callahan is out of waiver exemptions and WILL count against the cap until he clears waivers. It's very little, but it all adds up.

I know the market calls for it, and if you compare other players to Nyquist, $5M-$6M is market value, I just hope that Nyquist would prefer to take a little less for a couple of seasons to allow this team to be the best it can be. Nyquist is good, but good enough on his own to lose the likes of Tatar, Pulkkinen or the next 50 point scorer just so we can pay him $6M right now. But, when it comes to this type of situation, logic never wins. He may very well get $6M in SA, or even $4.5M from Holland, but guarantee if he does, you can kiss a couple of our prized prospects goodbye when they are RFA's because of cap issues. Then we will be stuck with another "choice" to make...and Tatar is better than Nyquist, so you'd know my choice.

So basically you're saying you'd rather give up Nyquist now than maybe have to give up someone like Nyquist in the future?

First off, $5-6M is not superstar money. Second, a bridge deal would make the potential problem worse by making him UFA sooner, all to save a little money we probably won't need. Three, if it comes down to having too many players performing too well, I think we'll be very lucky even though we probably won't be able to keep everyone.

Like I already said, we have $4.5ish this year already. We could probably squeeze out another $500k-1M+ without trading anyone, more if we could move Kindl.

For the year after, assuming Jurco and Pulkkinen both sign 2 year deals for around $1M each, Nyquist @ $5M, and even assuming no increase in the cap we have ~$17M to resign/replace Mrazek, Dekeyser, Helm, Abby, Sheahan, Quincey, Miller, Richards, and Andy/Ferraro. The last 4 spots should be cheap. Resigning the first 5 for $12M isn't going to happen, but it wouldn't happen for $13.5 either. We can gain some by dumping Kindl and going with another kid, possibly do the same with Smith, or look to move Ericsson or Green. If Mrazek does well enough to warrant a big raise, he'll have done well enough to allow us to move Howard. Similarly, if Sheahan does well enough to get a big raise, we could afford to lose Helm or Abby (particularly true if other young guys like Tatar and Pulkkinen are successful). It's highly unlikely that an extra $1-2.5M over the next two years costs us anything we really don't want to lose.

After that, you'd be giving Nyquist even more money or letting him walk, the same or worse than paying him now.

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lol Nyquist isn't signing a 2 year/$8,000,000 contract...

Arbitrarily speaking, he would probably be awarded something in the $5,500,000 range.

I suggested the trade idea because Hard Capped systems put an emphasis on decision making - decision's like: Is Gustav Nyquist the next Hudler or Filpulla, or is he the next Zetterberg (without the 2 way ability).

All you can do is make that decision based on history, and history suggests that statically speaking - he is probably closer to Hudler/Filpulla range that Hank... But today is trade value is higher than ever.

And who would you like to replace him with? Pukk? Barely any NHL experience?

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If I could trade Nyquist in a package for a player like Taylor Hall, I would do it. $6M for Hall WILL be a bargain I two years, $6M right now or Nyquist is overpayment. Nyquist is good and could be a huge part of our future, but right now, he is not in Taylor Hall category and for $6M, I'd rather trade his potential of being in that catagory to have someone that is there now. Taylor Hall is just an example. I would also trade Nyquist in a deal for David Backes...and I am not knocking down Gus, I just don't think he has earned $6M yet. I know the market says different, but that is because even these other $5M to $6M recent signings aren't even worth it. It NO world is Saad worth $6M a season at this point in his career, that's insane.

Edited by LeftWinger

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I still don't think he has earned that money yet, but as I said, the market dictates differently.

So, playing devils advocate, I think that IF they know Franzen will be LTIR, they are going to dump Q for the kids, and maybe they have trade idea for Howard (I am reading this more and more around the web, that he is indeed being shopped) then if you have to overpay Gus now in order to secure him on this team for 5+ years, then at least we'd still have cap room for the raises Danny D, Mraz, Tatar and the rest will need.

Heck, just dumping Franzen and Q alone would open up $8M. You'd have to be getting something well needed in a Howard trade, plus you'd have to put together a better package than just Howard. Howard and a pick and a prospect for something needed.

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I still don't think he has earned that money yet, but as I said, the market dictates differently.

So, playing devils advocate, I think that IF they know Franzen will be LTIR, they are going to dump Q for the kids, and maybe they have trade idea for Howard (I am reading this more and more around the web, that he is indeed being shopped) then if you have to overpay Gus now in order to secure him on this team for 5+ years, then at least we'd still have cap room for the raises Danny D, Mraz, Tatar and the rest will need.

Heck, just dumping Franzen and Q alone would open up $8M. You'd have to be getting something well needed in a Howard trade, plus you'd have to put together a better package than just Howard. Howard and a pick and a prospect for something needed.

Sources? Links?

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Not sure if this will effect Nyqist's deal but Evgeny Kuznetsov just signed a 2 year $6 million deal with the Caps. I don't know much about him but what I do know is he has only scored 14 goals in the NHL regular season. $3 million cap hit seems kinda high. Makes me think Nyquist can ask for the moon.

I'd give nyquist 4-4.25 per year so long as it's a 5 yr contract so years 3 and beyond it'll look like a good cap hit for us

Otherwise what Tatar got looks like a fair deal since they both got similar numbers

Unfortunately I gotta think wings already offered him that and he refused so god knows what he's looking for

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Not sure if this will effect Nyqist's deal but Evgeny Kuznetsov just signed a 2 year $6 million deal with the Caps. I don't know much about him but what I do know is he has only scored 14 goals in the NHL regular season. $3 million cap hit seems kinda high. Makes me think Nyquist can ask for the moon.

He put up 37 points in his first full NHL season, and is only 23. He is going to be a very good player for the Capitals.

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I'd give nyquist 4-4.25 per year so long as it's a 5 yr contract so years 3 and beyond it'll look like a good cap hit for us

Otherwise what Tatar got looks like a fair deal since they both got similar numbers

Unfortunately I gotta think wings already offered him that and he refused so god knows what he's looking for

He's definitely not getting Tatar's deal. TT signed that deal with 1 season of 19g, 20a, 39pts (79games).

Nyquist has 2 seasons of 28g, 48pts (57games) and 27g. 54 pts. (82 games) Those are not really similar numbers at all. And he's more proven than TT was at the time - he'll get more or he should fire his agent.

I think you meant that they had similar numbers for this past year, but that has no real relevance.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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He's definitely not getting Tatar's deal. TT signed that deal with 1 season of 19g, 20a, 39pts (79games).

Nyquist has 2 seasons of 28g, 48pts (57games) and 27g. 57 pts. (82 games) Those are not really similar numbers at all. And he's more proven than TT was at the time - he'll get more or he should fire his agent.

I think you meant that they had similar numbers for this past year, but that has no real relevance.

This exactly. I dont know how people are on this Tatar bandwagon after only 1 year good performance. Nyquist has proven is skill at the AHL level and 2 years in a row with NHL level.

Either way if he wants to play here he should take a pay cut compared to Saad and other ridiculous deals going on. 6 million is ridiculous given our current situation and he knows it too. Nyquist could be the face of this organization and create a legacy. It's a matter of whether or not he wants to take it. Z took it and so did Datsyuk. Look where it got them; we're talking potential jersey retirements in another thread..

If Nyquist learned half of anything from Z I hope it's to be a team first guy at the very least. I have heard his team mates on fox tease him about how he copies Z's dressing style so godamit copy the humilty!

Edited by kickazz

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He's definitely not getting Tatar's deal. TT signed that deal with 1 season of 19g, 20a, 39pts (79games).

Nyquist has 2 seasons of 28g, 48pts (57games) and 27g. 57 pts. (82 games) Those are not really similar numbers at all. And he's more proven than TT was at the time - he'll get more or he should fire his agent.

I think you meant that they had similar numbers for this past year, but that has no real relevance.

Tatar got 19 and 29

Nyquist got 28 and 27

Even when Tatar got his contract it's not like they were that far apart ... At the most I see Gus getting 3.5 whether it's for a one year deal or 2

Anyone know if he Will he be a ufa if he signs a one year deal? Think it's in 2?

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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He put up 37 points in his first full NHL season, and is only 23. He is going to be a very good player for the Capitals.

Right, and he got $3 million a year for one 37 point season, So what's Nyquist gonna get?

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Right, and he got $3 million a year for one 37 point season, So what's Nyquist gonna get?

Potential plays a lot in a contract as well. He signed a 2 year contract for a reason, in 2 years he is going to be very good. He's also a center, Nyquist is not.

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Potential plays a lot in a contract as well. He signed a 2 year contract for a reason, in 2 years he is going to be very good. He's also a center, Nyquist is not.

Very true. I skipped over that part.

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Tatar got 19 and 29

Nyquist got 28 and 27

Even when Tatar got his contract it's not like they were that far apart ... At the most I see Gus getting 3.5 whether it's for a one year deal or 2

Anyone know if he Will he be a ufa if he signs a one year deal? Think it's in 2?

But that's what I was saying: Tatar last season doesn't matter since it happened after his contract was signed. Goose has more numbers to back up his negotiation then what got Tatar his deal.

54pts (Nyquist) vs. 39pts. (Tats) - including 8 more goals - is far apart to me. If you compare salaries for players with that point differential I think they would be very different. And add Nyquist's rookie season where he scored about a goal for every 2 games (28 in 57). It's a different situation.

3.5 is closer to the ballpark. I'd say that's the lowest possible. Holland is pretty good at keeping RFA salaries down.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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But that's what I was saying: Tatar last season doesn't matter since it happened after his contract was signed. Goose has more numbers to back up his negotiation then what got Tatar his deal.

54pts (Nyquist) vs. 39pts. (Tats) - including 8 more goals - is far apart to me. If you compare salaries for players with that point differential I think they would be very different. And add Nyquist's rookie season where he scored about a goal for every 2 games (28 in 57). It's a different situation.

3.5 is closer to the ballpark. I'd say that's the lowest possible. Holland is pretty good at keeping RFA salaries down.

Mainly because he's consistently shown that when young guys accept the bridge deal, if they deliver, Kenny will bring the $$$ to the next negotiations. I think it'll be 3.5-4 over 2 or 3 years.

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