Remaing RFAs to be signed - Jurco, Pulkkinen, Aubry

[dragonballgtz 273]

Before the season starts, sure... it's a % of the cap. However when rosters are sorted out for the season and people are waived, re-assigned, put on LITR, etc. Those aforementioned players on perma-LITR: Pronger, Savard, Franzen, Nathan Horton... well... they then don't count against the cap.

Yes they do. They never go off the cap, teams are just allowed to go over the cap.

The capgeek link should still work

And what really sucks is they do not get the benefit of taking a contract bigger than what they usually are able to come the trade deadline.

On topic:

Any new updates?

Edited July 16, 2015 by dragonballgtz

[e_prime 1,936]

We are arguing semantics here and it is dumb.

[WingedWheel91 271]

Could you post some of the advanced metrics that prove the Red Wings are better off without Franzen, please?

Not a problem - published on February 9th of this year.

http://thehockeywriters.com/managing-the-johan-franzen-salary-cap-situation/

Like i said, the only stastical positive Johan Franzen provides us with is a powerplay that operates at 2.7% better. Pretty sure Mike Green has that covered.

[kickazz 5,459]

Not a problem - published on February 9th of this year.

http://thehockeywriters.com/managing-the-johan-franzen-salary-cap-situation/

Like i said, the only stastical positive Johan Franzen provides us with is a powerplay that operates at 2.7% better. Pretty sure Mike Green has that covered.

Wow aside from the powerplay, the team really does play better without him it looks like.

2.88 goals per game with Franzen. 3.05 without him. 2.45 goals against with him and 2.21 without him.

Those aren't very promising stats.

But then again. Didn't the team also have better stats WITHOUT Datsyuk in the 2013/2014 season? Atl east I think that was the case for a good period of time when he wasn't playing.

So I'm not sure if these stats are truly reflective.

[Buppy 1,720]

Wow aside from the powerplay, the team really does play better without him it looks like.

2.88 goals per game with Franzen. 3.05 without him. 2.45 goals against with him and 2.21 without him.

Those aren't very promising stats.

But then again. Didn't the team also have better stats WITHOUT Datsyuk in the 2013/2014 season? Atl east I think that was the case for a good period of time when he wasn't playing.

So I'm not sure if these stats are truly reflective.

Those stats aren't accurate, they're from just a 19 game stretch.

Looking at war-on-ice data -

With:

GF/60 - 2.8

GA/60 - 2.4

CF/60 - 54.6

CA/60 - 46.1

CF% - 54.2%

Without:

GF/60 - 2.72

GA/60 - 2.6

CF/60 - 53.2

CA/60 - 49.9

CF% - 51.6%

Some of the numbers may be slightly off due to rounding and war-on-ice not giving total minutes. Not enough to change the results significantly though. Offense is pretty close, but we were better defensively and in terms of possession with Franzen.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Buppy

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Wow aside from the powerplay, the team really does play better without him it looks like.

2.88 goals per game with Franzen. 3.05 without him. 2.45 goals against with him and 2.21 without him.

Those aren't very promising stats.

But then again. Didn't the team also have better stats WITHOUT Datsyuk in the 2013/2014 season? Atl east I think that was the case for a good period of time when he wasn't playing.

So I'm not sure if these stats are truly reflective.

Doubt it was because Datsyuk wasn't playing. They can't even enter the zone without him and I am dreading the day he retires because of that.

[kickazz 5,459]

Doubt it was because Datsyuk wasn't playing. They can't even enter the zone without him and I am dreading the day he retires because of that.

No I'm serious there was a stretch of time where we lost more games with him in the line up than when he went down with injury. I could be wrong. I'm strictly speaking wins and loses not advanced stats.

I remember it kind of upset me little. (shouldnt have cuz we were winning lol)

Edited July 17, 2015 by kickazz

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

No I'm serious there was a stretch of time where we lost more games with him in the line up than when he went down with injury. I could be wrong. I'm strictly speaking wins and loses not advanced stats.

I remember it kind of upset me little. (shouldnt have cuz we were winning lol)

I remember something like that, and I think it was just the rest of the team stepping up.

I remember being proud of Jurco, he wasn't scoring a lot, but he was playing like a bat out of hell.

[kliq 3,755]

I remember something like that, and I think it was just the rest of the team stepping up.

I remember being proud of Jurco, he wasn't scoring a lot, but he was playing like a bat out of hell.

Pretty sure that was during Nyquist's absolutely insane stretch in early 2014.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

No I'm serious there was a stretch of time where we lost more games with him in the line up than when he went down with injury. I could be wrong. I'm strictly speaking wins and loses not advanced stats.

I remember it kind of upset me little. (shouldnt have cuz we were winning lol)

Right but what I am saying is there is no accurate advanced stat that could measure something like that. Saying we lost when Datsyuk plays doesn't justify anything really, It could have been the opponents, it could have been other players causing turnovers, I mean it could be anything.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Right but what I am saying is there is no accurate advanced stat that could measure something like that. Saying we lost when Datsyuk plays doesn't justify anything really, It could have been the opponents, it could have been other players causing turnovers, I mean it could be anything.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

it appears that its going just a bit hard re-signing these two. Guess Holland just assumed that they would take the leftover tablescraps. Too many overpaid contracts on this team. Too many useless players that can easily be replaced with cheaper contracts.

[Shinzaki 72]

it appears that its going just a bit hard re-signing these two. Guess Holland just assumed that they would take the leftover tablescraps. Too many overpaid contracts on this team. Too many useless players that can easily be replaced with cheaper contracts.

Who is useless and can be replaced?

[rick zombo 3,739]

Who is useless and can be replaced?

Franzen, Helm, Ericsson and Howard. Duh. (_not my opinion_)

[amato 3,210]

Franzen, Helm, Ericsson and Howard. Duh. (_not my opinion_)

I've heard it on the others but when has anyone called helm useless/easily replaceable? I've heard him called potential trade bait and I think in a decent package he would be but helm is far from useless..

[number9 3,297]

And Quincey and Kindl. Half the defense.

[Shinzaki 72]

Everyone listed has a contract...you aren't just going to vaporize them. Who's going to take those guys off your hands and give you cap relief? And Quincey is far from useless...he's a decent 2nd pairing or elite 3rd pairing NHL defenseman.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

it appears that its going just a bit hard re-signing these two. Guess Holland just assumed that they would take the leftover tablescraps. Too many overpaid contracts on this team. Too many useless players that can easily be replaced with cheaper contracts.

What makes you say that? Both have plenty of time to sign a deal, and neither have any leverage to get much of a contract. Edited July 20, 2015 by DickieDunn

[e_prime 1,936]

it appears that its going just a bit hard re-signing these two. Guess Holland just assumed that they would take the leftover tablescraps. Too many overpaid contracts on this team. Too many useless players that can easily be replaced with cheaper contracts.

There's absolutely no rush to get Jurco or Pulkkinen signed so don't speculate that there's trouble getting them signed... both have stated that they expect deals to get done soon

...and there's more than "tablescraps" left for them, but that isn't the issue either. Both Jurco and Pulkkinen know they aren't due hefty raises and don't expect them because they know how this team works.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I've heard it on the others but when has anyone called helm useless/easily replaceable? I've heard him called potential trade bait and I think in a decent package he would be but helm is far from useless..

Leftwinger's not a fan of Helm. Something about how a buddy's friend's dad said that he had bad character or whatever. It goes back a year, at least.

[number9 3,297]

Leftwinger's not a fan of Helm. Something about how a buddy's friend's dad said that he had bad character or whatever. It goes back a year, at least.

a buddy's friend's dad's 2nd cousin's ex-wife's dog

[rick zombo 3,739]

a buddy's friend's dad's 2nd cousin's ex-wife's dog

you remember what I'm talking about?

[kickazz 5,459]

you remember what I'm talking about?

Everyone does

[number9 3,297]

you remember what I'm talking about?

People don't forget

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Obviously you guys don't remember squat. It's my friend who skates in a pick up hockey league with one of the trainers, and it wasn't Helm, it was Kindl and Smith that had the character issues, Helm was described as a "Barbie doll" by said trainer. BUT, its not like I hate the guy, I just said he became tradable with the emergence of Sheahan and Glendening. Because Helm was a coveted center at one time and he could bring us a nice return if he were packaged in a deal...sheesh guys, if you are going to blast me on things, at least get it right, what happened to all the looking up of old posts I did? They sure seem to pop up everytime I say that I grew sour on the Franzen deal right away...

But, ya, if you must know, some of the overpaid tradable players that would make room for more cap space and or the kids are indeed Howard, Franzen and Quincey. We have better quality assets already in the system that make way less money. $5M for a backup goalie is outrageous and he will get traded if not at the deadline, then next off season...but of course no one will get traded, we will waive two of Ferraro, Callahan and Andersson and we will get our cap relief that way. Of course since Datsyuk will miss October into November, we already get $7.5M in cap relief come end of training camp. So that works out for us right away.

..and as long as we are keeping score, in addition to my friend Dan who I mentioned above, my friend Jeff used to date Danny D's sister, that is how I learned of him and I work and have known Manny Legace's father-in-law for 20 years at THE major airline in Detroit before the merger as Northwest and now after the merger. His name is Chris (of course I am not saying the last names) and Chris' sister Joy also works with us and I have known her for nearly 25 years. BTW Manny's mother-in-law name? Sandy.

It's hilarious how folks just don't think that people can know people just because they are famous. Another co-worker (former co-worker) has a child that has a rare muscle condition the requires help to even roll over in bed, his name is Rob, we used to call him tumbleweed, another friend by proxy helped him out in purchasing a bed that actually turns his son over every so often automatically, that name? Sergei Fedorov, you may have heard of him. Knowing him through Rob and family, is mostly why I defend him at every turn, especially when it comes to his reputation. BTW, even though I have never met him personally, but Manny's Father/Law is very close personal friends with Chelios, they still hang out from time to time.

In another unrelated yet related topic, where I live now, near Silver Lake Sand Dunes, we have two famous actors and one former NBA player who have summer homes, former Piston Cliff Robinson, everyone's favorite barfly Norm, George Wendt and Dewey Cox himself, John C. Riley. My parents bowl with Uncle Cliffy and have met the other a few times, but I have not had the pleasure to do so...

So, just so we know, this post is here forever so it can be traceable and if anyone needs to refer back to this in order to try to prove something, its all right here.

Edited July 21, 2015 by LeftWinger