Remaing RFAs to be signed - Jurco, Pulkkinen, Aubry

[kickazz 5,459]

kickazz, I don't turn on player left and right. I admit, I have turned on a couple, Q and Franzen to name two, but not before they have PROVEN in the NHL that they aren't worth the money or the roster spot. Granted, Q did better last season, but he makes too much money. I know the market dictates it, but I think Holland should have just let him go when he was UFA instead of spend the $4.25M on him...we would've had XO or Marchy all season last year and this year. Franzen....nevermind, I need not get in to that subject...its been well discussed.

Doesn't mean I will TURN on Pulk, but at least give him a full season to prove whether or not he is indeed worthy of an NHL spot. He will MOST definitely do a s*** ton better than Franzen will.

I vaguely remember you suggest Z retire because he was out of gas during the tampa series.

34 year old captain retire who consistently leads team in points year in and year aside from his twin (pav)?

Proven player at all levels but ya turned on him. Pulk hasnt proven himself, if anything being skeptical towards an underexperienced player is more justified than turning on someone because they had one bad playoff series.

5 goals in Pulk 31 games wasnt very promising if I was truly unbiased. But I have hope he can do better with 82 games.

Hope, not wild assumption. And ill take a bet with you that if Franzen played healthy this season he puts up more points than Pulk.

Edited July 22, 2015 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

It's not turning on him, it's looking at a player without rose colored glasses. He doesn't have good speed, couldn't get open, and looked completely one dimensional.

And neither Nyquist nor Tatar looked very good, nor produced more, in their initial call-up seasons. Neither were as good in the AHL. Yet neither had the same kind of doubt that people seem to have for Pulk.

I think speed is a part of it. Speed is a very noticeable trait, and tends to make players look better than they really are. But there are a lot of good players in the NHL who don't have great speed.

I also think his slapshot works against him, oddly enough. Like it's so good and so effective in the AHL, people don't see anything else. But there is a lot more to his game. He plays well with and without the puck, he's persistent, drives the net, excellent wrister, half-slap, anticipates well, skates hard (even though not blazingly fast), decent stickhandling. He even backchecks and forechecks hard.

Will it all translate to success in the NHL? You hardly ever know with any prospect. But I can't remember any prospect who's been this good at this stage with this much negativity.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

azzz, that's just the thing, IF Franzen played healthy, but he won't, its just like saying IF Fedorov never left, his number would already be retired.

I would also say, if Franzen were to play healthy he would most definitely be on one of the top 2 lines all year, so IF Pulk was with Z or D all year, he would most definitely score more than Franzen. Lot of IF's here, but until either one plays all year healthy and strong and proves everyone otherwise, I am going with the odds that Franzen is done, and Pulk will blossom playing more minutes and more quality minutes.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Well said Buppy. I couldn't agree more. I'm fully confident that those that are saying "Pulkkinen sucks...", are either trolling... or haven't had the opportunity to watch him play a whole lot. If you truly believe that "all he has is a shot", you clearly haven't watched him enough. He isn't overly fast, but he is far from slow, and he works his ass off. I don't think he's a can't miss prospect, but to think that there's no way his minor league success can translate to the pros is crazy. He's been a more productive player than both Nyquist and Tatar at every level, but yeah, he sucks... mmhmm... Babcock was a terrible coach for a player like Pulkkinen, Blashill has been and will continue to be a great coach for Pulkkinen...

[marcaractac 3,963]

While I have by no means turned on him, I think there is a decent chance his game does not translate to the NHL any time soon. I do think those hoping for 30 goals from him are expected wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much.

[krsmith17 7,191]

30 goals this season? I'd say there's little to no chance... 25-30 goals per year, once he reaches his prime? I don't think that's at all out of the question...

[LeftWinger 4,961]

If used on the 3rd line and sometimes higher, along with consistent PP time, I can see 25-30 goals. It all depends on how hard he wants to work though...

[WingedWheel91 271]

I think a lot of people are underestimating what Brad Richards will do for Teemu Pulkinnen...

Once Datsyuk's back, the lines could potentially look like:

ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - ABDELKADER

TATAR - SHEAHAN - FRANZEN

NYQUIST - RICHARDS - PULKINNEN

JURCO - HELM - GLENDENNING

I understand Franzen's health is a massive question mark and he is by far the weakest link in our top 6, but can you imagine that 3rd line? Not a lot of size, but speed on the outside and a fantastic playmaker up the middle... 25-30 goals this season for Pulks may not be as crazy as it sounds...

[LeftWinger 4,961]

With the contract Nyquist just got and his ability to top 30 goals, do you honestly see him on the 3rd line? IF Franzen is back, I see HIM 3rd line at them most, with some PP time of course. I really see him being more like the 13th forward. Besides you left out Miller. I think if Franzen makes a successful comeback in the NHL (and right now a successful comeback would be just staying off the IR for a whole season, his 30 goal seasons are over) it will be best to be limited in his role on this team to only playing so much to avoid another relapse.

If our former coach were still here, I could see him forcing Franzen into a bigger role than he is ready for AND keeping Dats and Z together. I believe Blash will experiment with them together and splitting them up to see what is more problematic for other teams. I see a healthy roster looking like this:

Tatar - Datsyuk - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Richards - Zetterberg

Jurco - Sheahan - Pulkkinen

Miller - Glendening - Helm

Franzen (along with either Ferraro or Anderssson)

Edited July 22, 2015 by LeftWinger

[DickieDunn 2,571]

And neither Nyquist nor Tatar looked very good, nor produced more, in their initial call-up seasons. Neither were as good in the AHL. Yet neither had the same kind of doubt that people seem to have for Pulk.

I think speed is a part of it. Speed is a very noticeable trait, and tends to make players look better than they really are. But there are a lot of good players in the NHL who don't have great speed.

I also think his slapshot works against him, oddly enough. Like it's so good and so effective in the AHL, people don't see anything else. But there is a lot more to his game. He plays well with and without the puck, he's persistent, drives the net, excellent wrister, half-slap, anticipates well, skates hard (even though not blazingly fast), decent stickhandling. He even backchecks and forechecks hard.

Will it all translate to success in the NHL? You hardly ever know with any prospect. But I can't remember any prospect who's been this good at this stage with this much negativity.

Nyquist and Tatar both showed a lot more than Pulkkinen did in the NHL. Both are far superior skaters and worked to get open more than Pulkkinen did.

Well said Buppy. I couldn't agree more. I'm fully confident that those that are saying "Pulkkinen sucks...", are either trolling... or haven't had the opportunity to watch him play a whole lot. If you truly believe that "all he has is a shot", you clearly haven't watched him enough. He isn't overly fast, but he is far from slow, and he works his ass off. I don't think he's a can't miss prospect, but to think that there's no way his minor league success can translate to the pros is crazy. He's been a more productive player than both Nyquist and Tatar at every level, but yeah, he sucks... mmhmm... Babcock was a terrible coach for a player like Pulkkinen, Blashill has been and will continue to be a great coach for Pulkkinen...

In the AHL. In the NHL he was slow and didn't look like he had any clue about how to find open ice. The AHL players are slower and give guys more room, and the goalies leave more of the net open. Lots of guys score a ton in the minors but can't hack it in the NHL.

[marcaractac 3,963]

30 goals this season? I'd say there's little to no chance... 25-30 goals per year, once he reaches his prime? I don't think that's at all out of the question...

Definitely hope he eventually gets there. But he definitely has his work cut out for him to do so.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

With the contract Nyquist just got and his ability to top 30 goals, do you honestly see him on the 3rd line? IF Franzen is back, I see HIM 3rd line at them most, with some PP time of course. I really see him being more like the 13th forward. Besides you left out Miller. I think if Franzen makes a successful comeback in the NHL (and right now a successful comeback would be just staying off the IR for a whole season, his 30 goal seasons are over) it will be best to be limited in his role on this team to only playing so much to avoid another relapse.

If our former coach were still here, I could see him forcing Franzen into a bigger role than he is ready for AND keeping Dats and Z together. I believe Blash will experiment with them together and splitting them up to see what is more problematic for other teams. I see a healthy roster looking like this:

Tatar - Datsyuk - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Richards - Zetterberg

Jurco - Sheahan - Pulkkinen

Miller - Glendening - Helm

Franzen (along with either Ferraro or Anderssson)

Abby plays better with Z then Datsyuk.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

That is fine, which ever works better. It was always said that Dats loves Abby on his wing so I just always put them together.

I wonder what a line of Nyquist-Richards-Tatar would look like out here if Z went back with Dats...I can imagine either way, we would be in for some excitement!

[lomekian 201]

kickazz, I don't turn on player left and right. I admit, I have turned on a couple, Q and Franzen to name two, but not before they have PROVEN in the NHL that they aren't worth the money or the roster spot. Granted, Q did better last season, but he makes too much money. I know the market dictates it, but I think Holland should have just let him go when he was UFA instead of spend the $4.25M on him...we would've had XO or Marchy all season last year and this year. Franzen....nevermind, I need not get in to that subject...its been well discussed.

Doesn't mean I will TURN on Pulk, but at least give him a full season to prove whether or not he is indeed worthy of an NHL spot. He will MOST definitely do a s*** ton better than Franzen will.

Without wishing to entirely re-open both debates, i think and have always thought you are wrong about the players you are talking about. Partly because you seem to operate primarily in absolutes.

Howard (aforementioned) is a goalie worth his contract when fit. Anyone could see Mrazek had a higher ceiling, but when you have one guy proven at around the level you need, and one guy that might be lights out, but has barely played at the highest level, you don't jettison the proven man, even if his upside isn't quite as high. Either way, despite the fact that I've loved Mrazek since within a few months of the pick, equally, you can't bet the house on him yet. There have been plenty of goalies who start big and deteriorate. I don't think Petr will be one, and I expect him to become one of the top 5 in the NHL, but it doesn't make the Howard signing a mistake in anyway.

Quincey was never as bad as people thought, and at the time he signed, that was the best option. He's turned out to be just about worth his contract, and no-one from below has done enough to push him out. He broke through to the NHL in LA as an offensive defenceman, and its taken time for him to take on the defensive mode we need him to. He'll likely be gone by the time the finance is an issue anyway. But the wings were NEVER going to give up on a player they invested so much in at the time when he seemed to finally get the system and elevate his play to the desired level.

Franzen was both an excellent player and well worth his contract up until last season. Sure he floats, but he is positionally and defensively responsible, puts up points at 45-60 pace every year (even last year), and has great chemistry with Z and Nyquist. It looks like he's done due to concussions, but as an all round player he is a lot better than credited for, and when he gets hot, he can blow teams away. I'll be amazed if Pulks will ever get as good all round as Franzen was 07-13, and I'm very keen on the little finn.

So much playing the soothsayer in retrospect when actually your track record is entirely debatable will piss people off.

[kliq 3,755]

With the contract Nyquist just got and his ability to top 30 goals, do you honestly see him on the 3rd line? IF Franzen is back, I see HIM 3rd line at them most, with some PP time of course. I really see him being more like the 13th forward. Besides you left out Miller. I think if Franzen makes a successful comeback in the NHL (and right now a successful comeback would be just staying off the IR for a whole season, his 30 goal seasons are over) it will be best to be limited in his role on this team to only playing so much to avoid another relapse.

If our former coach were still here, I could see him forcing Franzen into a bigger role than he is ready for AND keeping Dats and Z together. I believe Blash will experiment with them together and splitting them up to see what is more problematic for other teams. I see a healthy roster looking like this:

Tatar - Datsyuk - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Richards - Zetterberg

Jurco - Sheahan - Pulkkinen

Miller - Glendening - Helm

Franzen (along with either Ferraro or Anderssson)

If he is fully healthy, there is zero chance Franzen is sitting in the press box. The only way this happens, is if he plays and plays like garbage.

[lomekian 201]

On Pulks specifically, I think if he can hold down a 3rd line place with PP time, he well score on pace for 20 goals...His assist totals will likely be lower, though I'm not as down on his playmaking than others. He has enough about his game to contribute at NHL level, and perhaps has a longer term upside as 30/60 man, but will take a while to adjust. Agree with those that say his wider skillset is underrated, but he is still too guilty of just entering the zone and unleashing the slapper when other things aren't working. Much of his success will depend on who his linemates are. But the guy has the talent to finish that we need.

[rick zombo 3,739]

If he is fully healthy, there is zero chance Franzen is sitting in the press box. The only way this happens, is if he plays and plays like garbage.

And he will play like garbage. Just like he has over the last 5 years. Haven't you heard? "Francine" sux.

[e_prime 1,936]

And he will play like garbage. Just like he has over the last 5 years. Haven't you heard? "Francine" sux.

I don't believe you mean that.

...but honestly, if healthy and playing hard... wouldn't it be great to have Franzen in the lineup?

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Well there is ZERO chance, even healthy enough to play, that he plays 82 games. I never said he was be in the press box for 82 games either. Instead of just looking at the lines and commenting on Franzen being listed as the 13th guy, read the post that goes with it. He will spend time in the press box in order to stay off IR and avoid being bashed around night in and night out. It's the safest thing for him. Like I said, to him, right now, a successful season will be staying off the IR for the entire campaign. If he plays 50 games, that will be a successful healthy season in regards to his steps towards becoming a full time player again.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I don't believe you mean that.

...but honestly, if healthy and playing hard... wouldn't it be great to have Franzen in the lineup?

Not if you have a bias hatred of the man.

[e_prime 1,936]

Not if you have a bias hatred of the man.

I'm discounting the haterz constituency and their opinion.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I'm discounting the haterz constituency and their opinion.

In which case, if healthy, Franzen is one of this team's best scoring forwards, and deserves to be in the top six. And Pulkinnen deserves to start the season in the press box and try and earn his way into the line-up. Case closed.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

It's Franzine, and I do believe purposely trolling a user is WAY beyond the rules of this forum. Don't like what I say in regards to players, then don't comment on it or ignore me, but DO NOT troll or try to attack me. I do believe that too is against forum rules...if not re-read them, you may need a refresher. Everytime I post something you are referring to me in some way regarding my uncles nephews wife's husband or my dislike for certain players, even though I didn't make reference to either subject, that is called purposely baiting me, also I did not refer to you in my post, nor did I refer to you in the prior post, but if you continue to troll me by making fun and mocking me, we can handle this through the mods. So I suggest you just ignore what I type, especially when it doesn't refer to you. If for some reason I bring you up or get on the subject of my dad's son's cousin's cousin OR the players I dislike, then feel free to comment on those subjects. As it is, the last 25 times you have posted something somewhere, it's sole purpose was to attack and bait me...

[e_prime 1,936]

In which case, if healthy, Franzen is one of this team's best scoring forwards, and deserves to be in the top six. And Pulkinnen deserves to start the season in the press box and try and earn his way into the line-up. Case closed.

Well, that isn't necessarily going to happen either because Dats won't be ready to go at the start of the season, but I don't disagree that Jurco and Pulks are going to have make or break years, respectively, with this team and where they slot into the lineup.

[rick zombo 3,739]

It's Franzine, and I do believe purposely trolling a user is WAY beyond the rules of this forum. Don't like what I say in regards to players, then don't comment on it or ignore me, but DO NOT troll or try to attack me. I do believe that too is against forum rules...if not re-read them, you may need a refresher. Everytime I post something you are referring to me in some way regarding my uncles nephews wife's husband or my dislike for certain players, even though I didn't make reference to either subject, that is called purposely baiting me, also I did not refer to you in my post, nor did I refer to you in the prior post, but if you continue to troll me by making fun and mocking me, we can handle this through the mods. So I suggest you just ignore what I type, especially when it doesn't refer to you. If for some reason I bring you up or get on the subject of my dad's son's cousin's cousin OR the players I dislike, then feel free to comment on those subjects. As it is, the last 25 times you have posted something somewhere, it's sole purpose was to attack and bait me...

None of what you just said is true. I'm not trying to bait, or troll you. Period.

I am laughing at how ridiculous your opinions can be. Lat time I checked, that was a healthy part of any debating process. Feel free to reciprocate.

If we're talking about this season's roster and Franzen's place on it, then your anti-Franzen bias taints any logical ability to properly slot him into the line-up. The fact that you refer to him in the feminine context is absolutely childish and should provide adequate reason for other members of this forum, including myself, to call you on it, and challenge anything you have to say about the man.