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toby91_ca

Holtby Asking for $8M

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He was better then Howard the past 2 seasons.

Holtby was 5th in GAA last year, and 6th in Save percentage.

He was better then Lundqvist, RInne, Quick to name a few.

Not to make excuses for Howard as I don't much but those teams the other goalies play on their defense is a bit better than the Wings

As for Holtby, cash in when ya can man....

Edited by Rivalred

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Not to make excuses for Howard as I don't much but those teams the other goalies play on their defense is a bit better than the Wings

As for Holtby, cash in when ya can man....

That's not true at all, Detroit was one of the better defensive teams in the NHL last year.

Detroit only allowed 27.4 shots per game (top 5) faceoffs 54.6% (top 5) and most importantly, goals allowed 2.26 (top 15).

Advanced stats back up their ranking as a top 10 defensive club, with Corsi For % and Fenwick For % 6th and 8th, respectively.

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That's not true at all, Detroit was one of the better defensive teams in the NHL last year.

Detroit only allowed 27.4 shots per game (top 5) faceoffs 54.6% (top 5) and most importantly, goals allowed 2.26 (top 15).

Advanced stats back up their ranking as a top 10 defensive club, with Corsi For % and Fenwick For % 6th and 8th, respectively.

People who watched the games saw that, not everyone is following games while looking at some excel spreadsheets or having their calculator ready. Hopefully this mathfreaks trend is going away as fast as it came because it's annoying having to fast forward podcasts and filter TSN hockeynews just to get the desired information while having to read through stupid graphics and formulas.

Anyhow great deal for Holtby and the Capitals by the end of this contract he will still be in his prime and could get even more if he works on his game.

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People who watched the games saw that, not everyone is following games while looking at some excel spreadsheets or having their calculator ready. Hopefully this mathfreaks trend is going away as fast as it came because it's annoying having to fast forward podcasts and filter TSN hockeynews just to get the desired information while having to read through stupid graphics and formulas.

Anyhow great deal for Holtby and the Capitals by the end of this contract he will still be in his prime and could get even more if he works on his game.

Statistics overrule what you think you saw. Sorry bud analytics aren't going anywhere.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The thing with statistics is that they can be easily skewed by several terrible (or very good) performances.

The thing with the eyeball test is that it can be easily skewed by several terrible (or very good) performances.

To get a fairly accurate depiction of the truth, you should consider both. I'm not positive why that's so hard to understand.

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The thing with statistics is that they can be easily skewed by several terrible (or very good) performances.

The thing with the eyeball test is that it can be easily skewed by several terrible (or very good) performances.

To get a fairly accurate depiction of the truth, you should consider both. I'm not positive why that's so hard to understand.

Never said to not use both that's why they have scouts that watch the games and also record numbers. At the end of the day numbers don't lie and are a very accurate way to measure a player.

I use them religiously in Baseball to determine how good a pitcher or batter is and believe me they are over 90% accurate in how good a player is. Hockey is getting into analytics more and more, all the front office for every team use them.

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Never said to not use both that's why they have scouts that watch the games and also record numbers. At the end of the day numbers don't lie and are a very accurate way to measure a player.

I use them religiously in Baseball to determine how good a pitcher or batter is and believe me they are over 90% accurate in how good a player is. Hockey is getting into analytics more and more, all the front office for every team use them.

I'm not saying they're not good or useful. I'm saying that telling someone that "stats overrule their opinion" may not always be accurate and you should rely on both. As the season wore on, we got worse defensively. I think the stats if broken down by month would probably show that and as an average we may have been a top 10 defensive team. But we weren't a top ten defensive team all year last year. We went from really good to pretty bad, so a season long average doesn't tell the whole story. That's all I'm saying.

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I'm not saying they're not good or useful. I'm saying that telling someone that "stats overrule their opinion" may not always be accurate and you should rely on both. As the season wore on, we got worse defensively. I think the stats if broken down by month would probably show that and as an average we may have been a top 10 defensive team. But we weren't a top ten defensive team all year last year. We went from really good to pretty bad, so a season long average doesn't tell the whole story. That's all I'm saying.

Well with analytics you can break anything down you want, that's the point of stats. You can say the same about any other team, at the end of the year we "Averaged" a certain number just like everyone else. Over 82 games we were absolutely a top 10 defensive team.

I do hold stats to a higher value then someone scouting. When someone is scouting a player, it's a small sample size since they don't scout all 82 games. Analytics allow you to have the numbers in front of you and measure performance in which you cannot by watching. When making the hard decisions I would use analytics over what someone saw with there eye. Sorry if that bothers you, but it's my opinion.

Edited by darkmanx

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Well with analytics you can break anything down you want, that's the point of stats. You can say the same about any other team, at the end of the year we "Averaged" a certain number just like everyone else. Over 82 games we were absolutely a top 10 defensive team.

I do hold stats to a higher value then someone scouting. When someone is scouting a player, it's a small sample size since they don't scout all 82 games. Analytics allow you to have the numbers in front of you and measure performance in which you cannot by watching. When making the hard decisions I would use analytics over what someone saw with there eye. Sorry if that bothers you, but it's my opinion.

And that's exactly why I think this whole movement is just a short trend for a few teams. Baseball is not hockey it's a slower with more down time and a lot more games I.e. Bigger sample size with less outliers.

Hockey is or at least was a fast paced, physical team sport with tons of momentum shifts and intangibles. I'm fairly sure the math freaks would take a guy like OV, Malkin over Toews because they can't measure intangibles or leadership qualities.

If I'm the GM and have to decide if I'm trading the advise of a professional scout or a mathfreak with MacBook pro excel sheet I don't even have to think twice about it. The thing with analytics is also that all of a sudden bloggers think they are experts when in fact all they are is excel and very talented mathguys with a ton of time on their hands. Orr sad it best it's a joke.

Believe it or not scouts have a god given talent to project prospects that's why they are paid well while everyone with high math and excel skills can create a blog and look at things in hindsight with graphs and formulas. When a guy like Travis Yost is writing about how his stats for prospects are prove of this and that then I can't help but think well if you know all that so well why aren't you working as a director of scouting for a NHL team ? The truth is scouts are picking the players, not math formulas ..Everyone can look back now and say stuff like why wasn't Zetterberg picked in the first round...Well scouts don't have that luxury neither do nhl teams

Everyone who watched the Wings play saw where the problems were and how their system helped them to overcome it for some time.

What the Wings were is simple: a team that made the playoffs and lost to Tampa in 7 games wow sooo advanced and all that without using my calculator.

Sorry for OT but this analytics is really starting to annoy me, a few years ago it was just there for those interested in it but now this nerd talk creeps into everyday stuff, why should people that don't care about it have to scroll through that spam on TSN or fast forward more and more hockey podcasts? Doesn't make sense. I'm sure the analytics crowd wouldn't be happy if their blogs were filled with intangibles stuff yet vise versa it should be accepted? I don't think so

Edited by frankgrimes

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And that's exactly why I think this whole movement is just a short trend for a few teams. Baseball is not hockey it's a slower with more down time and a lot more games I.e. Bigger sample size with less outliers.

Hockey is or at least was a fast paced, physical team sport with tons of momentum shifts and intangibles. I'm fairly sure the math freaks would take a guy like OV, Malkin over Toews because they can't measure intangibles or leadership qualities.

If I'm the GM and have to decide if I'm trading the advise of a professional scout or a mathfreak with MacBook pro excel sheet I don't even have to think twice about it. The thing with analytics is also that all of a sudden bloggers think they are experts when in fact all they are is excel and very talented mathguys with a ton of time on their hands. Orr sad it best it's a joke.

Believe it or not scouts have a god given talent to project prospects that's why they are paid well while everyone with high math and excel skills can create a blog and look at things in hindsight with graphs and formulas. When a guy like Travis Yost is writing about how his stats for prospects are prove of this and that then I can't help but think well if you know all that so well why aren't you working as a director of scouting for a NHL team ? The truth is scouts are picking the players, not math formulas ..Everyone can look back now and say stuff like why wasn't Zetterberg picked in the first round...Well scouts don't have that luxury neither do nhl teams

Everyone who watched the Wings play saw where the problems were and how their system helped them to overcome it for some time.

What the Wings were is simple: a team that made the playoffs and lost to Tampa in 7 games wow sooo advanced and all that without using my calculator.

Sorry for OT but this analytics is really starting to annoy me, a few years ago it was just there for those interested in it but now this nerd talk creeps into everyday stuff, why should people that don't care about it have to scroll through that spam on TSN or fast forward more and more hockey podcasts? Doesn't make sense. I'm sure the analytics crowd wouldn't be happy if their blogs were filled with intangibles stuff yet vise versa it should be accepted? I don't think so

Sounds to me like you want the basics and only the basics, which is fine and it work's for you.

I like to educate myself on players strengths and weaknesses and overall performance so I use numbers. I want to know who was the best player on the Wings that series, what they did good, who was bad, why they were bad etc etc.

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If I'm the GM and have to decide if I'm trading the advise of a professional scout or a mathfreak with MacBook pro excel sheet I don't even have to think twice about it. The thing with analytics is also that all of a sudden bloggers think they are experts when in fact all they are is excel and very talented mathguys with a ton of time on their hands. Orr sad it best it's a joke.

Believe it or not scouts have a god given talent to project prospects that's why they are paid well while everyone with high math and excel skills can create a blog and look at things in hindsight with graphs and formulas. When a guy like Travis Yost is writing about how his stats for prospects are prove of this and that then I can't help but think well if you know all that so well why aren't you working as a director of scouting for a NHL team ? The truth is scouts are picking the players, not math formulas ..Everyone can look back now and say stuff like why wasn't Zetterberg picked in the first round...Well scouts don't have that luxury neither do nhl teams

Leafs hired a stats guru as assistant GM, I guess only time will tell how it works out for them. did http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2014/07/22/maple_leafs_shake_up_front_office_hire_stats_guru_kyle_dubas_28_as_assistant_gm.html

Also, here is an article where Mike Babcock is firmly behind the use of stats. The reason why I bring this up is because I am pretty sure you have said many many of times that Babcock is the best coach in hockey, if true, shouldn't we take his opinion seriously and not dismiss them? No offense Frank, but I trust Babs opinion over yours any day. http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=727102

Here is also a section from the article, clearly its not just the Leafs moving in this direction.

The Boston Bruins, Toronto Maple Leafs and New Jersey Devils this summer have hired or promoted from within executives with statistical backgrounds. Pittsburgh Penguins general manager Jim Rutherford has talked about how he will incorporate analytics into the team's front office. The Chicago Blackhawks and Los Angeles Kings have used analytics to win the Stanley Cup twice each in the past five seasons. St. Louis Blues coach Ken Hitchcock is on record saying he uses analytics as part of his decision-making process for match-ups and chemistry.

Edited by kliq

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Yes for me the basics are enough, if others want to dig deeper that's also fine with me as long as the stuff I've mentioned doesn't happen.

And yes, I truly believe Babcock is the best coach in hockey but that doesn't mean I wouldn't fast forward if he talks about stuff I'm not interested in. I think you are talking about Kyle Dubas? He comes of very smart and not just like the prototypical analytics guy I hope for their sake that also trusts things like instinct and his scouts but given the Leafs draft I'm not sure with that I mean how does one pick so many undersized players and not go for grit and toughness in the later rounds?

Ok so NHL teams are hiring these guys but as we've seen they are also getting fired I.e that Oilers guy who thought he knew more than MacTavish. Let's be honest I think almost every NHL team has the best technology money can buy I guess we'll see if this trend produces something worthwhile.

No offense to Dubas but it will be funny seeing him to tell one of the most experienced GMs number x is prove if that and therefore he should trade for another player lol

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Yes for me the basics are enough, if others want to dig deeper that's also fine with me as long as the stuff I've mentioned doesn't happen.

And yes, I truly believe Babcock is the best coach in hockey but that doesn't mean I wouldn't fast forward if he talks about stuff I'm not interested in. I think you are talking about Kyle Dubas? He comes of very smart and not just like the prototypical analytics guy I hope for their sake that also trusts things like instinct and his scouts but given the Leafs draft I'm not sure with that I mean how does one pick so many undersized players and not go for grit and toughness in the later rounds?

Ok so NHL teams are hiring these guys but as we've seen they are also getting fired I.e that Oilers guy who thought he knew more than MacTavish. Let's be honest I think almost every NHL team has the best technology money can buy I guess we'll see if this trend produces something worthwhile.

No offense to Dubas but it will be funny seeing him to tell one of the most experienced GMs number x is prove if that and therefore he should trade for another player lol

Shanahan already bought into analytics, it doesn't matter what Lou thinks he doesn't call the final shots.

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Shanahan already bought into analytics, it doesn't matter what Lou thinks he doesn't call the final shots.

Huh? Shanahan is the VP, his job will be to act as the middle man between ownership and the front office. Now that he has his stuff in place I think he'll focus on the business side but Lou is the GM sure Shanahan can overrule him but why should he Lou is the must experienced guy there by far.

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Huh? Shanahan is the VP, his job will be to act as the middle man between ownership and the front office. Now that he has his stuff in place I think he'll focus on the business side but Lou is the GM sure Shanahan can overrule him but why should he Lou is the must experienced guy there by far.

As has been stated multiple times they all make the big decisions together, I'm not talking small decisions (waives, scratches etc). If the raw data is in front of Shanny and it shows player x is better then player y even know Lou says player y is better, Shanny is going to take player x. Example: If Nylander dominates the AHL next year, and the raw data shows he was better then Leivo, he will be up with the Leafs.

Shanny has already said he bought into analytics and he believes that's where the game is heading.

Anyways I'm done going off topic about this.

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