wings4thecup06 504 Report post Posted July 25, 2015 They better not. But these salaries are getting ridiculous. Look at the contracts signed recently and the money. How are markets like Phoenix and Florida supposed to content and keep up when now mid level players are being paid like the stars were 3-4 years ago? It's nuts. And for a guy like Holtby to ask for 8m? It's just continuing to drive salaries up across the board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted July 25, 2015 But these salaries are getting ridiculous. Look at the contracts signed recently and the money. How are markets like Phoenix and Florida supposed to content and keep up when now mid level players are being paid like the stars were 3-4 years ago? It's nuts. And for a guy like Holtby to ask for 8m? It's just continuing to drive salaries up across the board. I doubt he was being realistic with that number. It's like any negotiation, you start at a high number and meet in the middle. 6.1 / year for Holtby is not bad at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 If I'm the GM and have to decide if I'm trading the advise of a professional scout or a mathfreak with MacBook pro excel sheet I don't even have to think twice about it. The thing with analytics is also that all of a sudden bloggers think they are experts when in fact all they are is excel and very talented mathguys with a ton of time on their hands. Orr sad it best it's a joke. It's actually not as simple as you're trying to make this argument out to be. It's not just one or the other. The advance stats go hand in hand with scouting. Scouts do their thing, GM/coaches work with advance stats to optimize their team play. This is the era hockey is moving into. Whether, you me or dupree like it or hate it. 1 kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 Frank, Hockeys going to move further and further away from the eye test and more and more into advanced stats, its just how its going. Look at the micro chips they tested in the jerseys last asg, those are going to be the norm very soon. Its kind of cool, all the data that well get from it, but scouts will always have a place. Its just one of the new things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 BTW I thought the Red Wings as an org started using advance stats last year? Or was it just talk about using it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,469 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 yeah screw math; whoever said 2+2 = 4 is full of it because sometimes it can equal 5 It can if one of those 2's has a slutty number friend and then magically it's a 3 2 FireCaptain and kickazz reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 Silly debate. Stats are information. A tool. Scouts would use them as much or more than anyone. They've been around for decades. Over the years, more have been added/tracked. Even analytics aren't entirely new. Just a natural progression. More information is always better, provided you can understand the information. The advanced metrics still need a lot of work before we really understand them enough to make good use of them, but once teams start understanding them they will be a valuable resource, and that's why teams are hiring "stat guys". Stats aren't a replacement for scouting, they are a part of it. 6 krsmith17, Detroit \# 1 Fan, kipwinger and 3 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 Its 6.1 million per year. Yeah when the whole contract is totaled up. He will be making $7 million for two seasons of it is what I meant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 Frank, Hockeys going to move further and further away from the eye test and more and more into advanced stats, its just how its going. Look at the micro chips they tested in the jerseys last asg, those are going to be the norm very soon. Its kind of cool, all the data that well get from it, but scouts will always have a place. Its just one of the new things. I think the nhlpa will have something to say about those chips. Why should players be comfortable with everything bring tracked and out there for everyone? I know some people believe in these stats but I prefer the basics and the opinion of scouts, coaches etc. Poster of why it's so hard to understand baseball as a newbie are all the different stats instead of having a basic and an "advanced" tab at the page. I couldn't care less about trends of pitchers and batters. Anyhow this is really of topic but it goes to show you that revolution isn't always a good thing. Hockey was so much better back in the 90s and early 2000s and yet we've had less information but a way better product. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 I think the nhlpa will have something to say about those chips. Why should players be comfortable with everything bring tracked and out there for everyone? I know some people believe in these stats but I prefer the basics and the opinion of scouts, coaches etc. Poster of why it's so hard to understand baseball as a newbie are all the different stats instead of having a basic and an "advanced" tab at the page. I couldn't care less about trends of pitchers and batters. Anyhow this is really of topic but it goes to show you that revolution isn't always a good thing. Hockey was so much better back in the 90s and early 2000s and yet we've had less information but a way better product. Hockey was only better for me back then because of the wings dominance, ha.Honestly, I imagine they'll be fine with it, because it'll open up new ways to study film, new awareness of what you're doing right and wrong, and how to fix it. I think it'll help the game. Its cool if you don't though, all the new stats do get crazy, but my opinion is, i just dont see how it could negatively effect the quality of the game. And yeah. Ha. The holtby deal is good for both sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mckinley25 677 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 I think the nhlpa will have something to say about those chips. Why should players be comfortable with everything bring tracked and out there for everyone? I know some people believe in these stats but I prefer the basics and the opinion of scouts, coaches etc. Poster of why it's so hard to understand baseball as a newbie are all the different stats instead of having a basic and an "advanced" tab at the page. I couldn't care less about trends of pitchers and batters. Anyhow this is really of topic but it goes to show you that revolution isn't always a good thing. Hockey was so much better back in the 90s and early 2000s and yet we've had less information but a way better product. Are you implying there is a correlation between the tracking of advanced stats and the quality of the game? (Which of course is entirely subjective.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 Hockey was only better for me back then because of the wings dominance, ha.Honestly, I imagine they'll be fine with it, because it'll open up new ways to study film, new awareness of what you're doing right and wrong, and how to fix it. I think it'll help the game.Its cool if you don't though, all the new stats do get crazy, but my opinion is, i just dont see how it could negatively effect the quality of the game.And yeah.Ha.The holtby deal is good for both sides. Well I guess it depends I'm sure NHL teams are already having those ultra HD TVs and a ton of them to study films, slow-mos and all that stuff. I don't think knowing exactly each and every detail of a game will help much it would only make the video sessions longer = less time for the real important stuff (on-ice-training) but maybe I'm wrong and they are fine with it. Yeah Holtby really got a fair deal unlike Chiasson 1,2 per seems a bit undervalued. Are you implying there is a correlation between the tracking of advanced stats and the quality of the game? (Which of course is entirely subjective.) No all I'm saying is that hockey was better back then. I mean even Podcasts barely existed (if at all) and the internet was still billed per minute instead of a flatrate - so getting all the information - even if it's just basics - was time consuming and expensive yet I've enjoyed it much more. But implying that advanced stats and the quality of hockey are correlated ? Nope because I'm not into that stuff and something like this would be a question for the advanced stat guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 Well I guess it depends I'm sure NHL teams are already having those ultra HD TVs and a ton of them to study films, slow-mos and all that stuff. I don't think knowing exactly each and every detail of a game will help much it would only make the video sessions longer = less time for the real important stuff (on-ice-training) but maybe I'm wrong and they are fine with it. Statistical analysts are hired to do this work. It's not like the coach is expected to be the one that does the math lol. This has no effect on on-ice training like you say. All it does is give them information on how to better utilize their players in specific situations. 1 kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 26, 2015 Statistical analysts are hired to do this work. It's not like the coach is expected to be the one that does the math lol. This has no effect on on-ice training like you say. All it does is give them information on how to better utilize their players in specific situations. Math freaks ruined hockey 2 DatsyukianDekes and kickazz reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,440 Report post Posted July 27, 2015 The old eyeball test. Keeping the Earth flat and at the center of the solar system since the dawn of man. Gotta love it. 4 PavelValerievichDatsyuk, marcaractac, The Greek and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Greek 323 Report post Posted July 27, 2015 The old eyeball test. Keeping the Earth flat and at the center of the solar system since the dawn of man. Gotta love it. Yup. It's particularly popular with people who use "girl" as an insult. It's pretty funny when you realize that the anti-analytics crowd is really just anti-information. 4 kipwinger, number9, marcaractac and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted July 27, 2015 Yup. It's particularly popular with people who use "girl" as an insult. It's pretty funny when you realize that the anti-analytics crowd is really just anti-information. You kids and your fancy information and your gender equality and your hi-fi radios. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,469 Report post Posted July 28, 2015 You kids and your fancy information and your gender equality and your hi-fi radios. WiFi radios now grandpa 2 Buppy and number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 28, 2015 WiFi radios now grandpa Only girls use wifi... back when hockey didn't suck we used hi-fi 1 Buppy reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted July 28, 2015 Only girls use wifi... back when hockey didn't suck we used hi-fi Real hockey was played on icebergs by Vikings with axe blades strapped to their feet who just skated around trying to kill each other with the axe handles. Real radio was a wandering minstrel who sang stirring anthems and ribald ballads for a leg of roast mutton. 4 BottleOfSmoke, PavelValerievichDatsyuk, kipwinger and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted July 28, 2015 You kids out there....remember I said...Kingston Ontario...put er there...Bobby is the greatest...To Mike Babcock in Trauna...it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with ducks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted July 29, 2015 You kids out there....remember I said...Kingston Ontario...put er there...Bobby is the greatest...To Mike Babcock in Trauna...it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with ducks. Coach Bombay is that you? Triple deke? Flying V? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites