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haroldsnepsts

Jonathan Quick on snipers, including Datsyuk

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One thing that people often forget with Toews is this: when the game matters he turns it up another notch his last 3 playoff performances: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=8792

Points: 14, 17 and 21

Zetterberg: 12, 2 and 3

Sure the Hawks made it all the way but sadly right now Toews is the better player and that's by far nothing against our captain and to be honest it pisses me off seeing how much impact that damn back had on that once unbelievable two way center known as Z :(

So your comparing Toews entire playoff numbers vs Zetterberg who hasn't made it out of the first round in 2 years... wtf?

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So your comparing Toews entire playoff numbers vs Zetterberg who hasn't made it out of the first round in 2 years... wtf?

no I'm comparing their last 3 years and let's be honest last year was by far the worst playoff performance I#ve EVER seen from Z he almost played like a 3 liner. His playoff highs are incredible with 27 and 24 but he never even came close to reaching such high numbers again (yes the first and second rounds exits didn't help either) but you get the point.

I mean, do you assume he would have scored at least 18 points if we made it all the way ? I sadly doubt it but we'll never know.

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no I'm comparing their last 3 years and let's be honest last year was by far the worst playoff performance I#ve EVER seen from Z he almost played like a 3 liner. His playoff highs are incredible with 27 and 24 but he never even came close to reaching such high numbers again (yes the first and second rounds exits didn't help either) but you get the point.

I mean, do you assume he would have scored at least 18 points if we made it all the way ? I sadly doubt it but we'll never know.

You just showed stats from Toews last 3 playoff performances that shows he had more points then Zetterberg, which is obvious since he's play 43 more games then Zetterberg the last 3 playoffs, including Z coming back from back injuries in one of those series. I don't understand your argument at all.

If you want to try to use the numbers to work in your favor then I can do the same.

Toews .87 PPG in playoffs

Zetteberg .91PPG in playoffs

Zetterberg is z superior player!1!1!1!1

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You just showed stats from Toews last 3 playoff performances that shows he had more points then Zetterberg, which is obvious since he's play 43 more games then Zetterberg the last 3 playoffs, including Z coming back from back injuries in one of those series. I don't understand your argument at all.

If you want to try to use the numbers to work in your favor then I can do the same.

Toews .87 PPG in playoffs

Zetteberg .91PPG in playoffs

Zetterberg is z superior player!1!1!1!1

Well if you think the playoff argument doesn't fly because the Hawks have played more games I can do the same. The PPG argument doesn't fly because obviously Z is 34 and Toews is 27 so for sure Z should have a better PPG because he has been in more playoffs series overall.

Anyway I think you are taking this way too personal instead of rationally. So I ask you this all things aside would you take Toews over Z right now yes or no ?

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Well if you think the playoff argument doesn't fly because the Hawks have played more games I can do the same. The PPG argument doesn't fly because obviously Z is 34 and Toews is 27 so for sure Z should have a better PPG because he has been in more playoffs series overall.

Anyway I think you are taking this way too personal instead of rationally. So I ask you this all things aside would you take Toews over Z right now yes or no ?

The more games you play the harder the PPG is to maintain? Is that not common sense? It's not personal, it's pretty rational. I showed you stats that prove my argument, I have yet to see anything from you except text as to why you think Toews is better.

Yes, Z over Toews because as stats show Toews is not the better player.

Edit: Actually I don't know why I am asking you for stats, you are the same person that doesn't acknowledge advanced stats. You can't argue what you don't undestand.

Edited by darkmanx

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The more games you play the harder the PPG is to maintain? Is that not common sense? It's not personal, it's pretty rational. I showed you stats that prove my argument, I have yet to see anything from you except text as to why you think Toews is better.

Yes, Z over Toews because as stats show Toews is not the better player.

Edit: Actually I don't know why I am asking you for stats, you are the same person that doesn't acknowledge advanced stats. You can't argue what you don't undestand.

Some people just lap up whatever the media tell them to think. It's a problem that extends far beyond national sports.

Edited by number9

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I honestly think Crosby's backhand may be better, I dislike him, but its pretty damn good. Datsyuk is definitely up there though, and he gets it off so ridiculously quick...

Its beautiful.

Crosby for sure has best backhand.

I actually think Zetterberg has a better backhand than Datsyuk. Only very slightly tho. Datsyuk's shot is definitely very quick (as it should be for a high finesse player like him), but Z is very strong on his backhand, and the accuracy is deadly. It was like his go-to shot in his prime .. the guy could score with it from the worst angles possible.

I remember this one made my jaw drop pretty hard

The accuracy is ridic

Edited by kickazz

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And you know it's not luck when he does it multiple times.


I often get frustrated because he no longer takes that shot. It's the same when Datsyuk doesn't go on his forehand on the shootouts anymore. Frustrating.


no I'm comparing their last 3 years and let's be honest last year was by far the worst playoff performance I#ve EVER seen from Z he almost played like a 3 liner. His playoff highs are incredible with 27 and 24 but he never even came close to reaching such high numbers again (yes the first and second rounds exits didn't help either) but you get the point.

I mean, do you assume he would have scored at least 18 points if we made it all the way ? I sadly doubt it but we'll never know.

Frank -

2013 Playoffs;

Zetterberg had 12 points in 14 games. Want to know how much Toews had? 14 points in 23 games.

Z would have demolished Toews numbers that year in terms of points if the Wings made it past round 2.

2014 playoffs Z only played 2 games.

2015 playoffs Toews > Zetterberg but Z played much less games.

So really the best example to look at is 2013 because Z played wayy less games and had almost the same point totals as Toews..

Edited by kickazz

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Well if you think the playoff argument doesn't fly because the Hawks have played more games I can do the same. The PPG argument doesn't fly because obviously Z is 34 and Toews is 27 so for sure Z should have a better PPG because he has been in more playoffs series overall.

Anyway I think you are taking this way too personal instead of rationally. So I ask you this all things aside would you take Toews over Z right now yes or no ?

Frank.. Toews has only played 15 less playoff games than Z. Their comparison for PPG works perfectly fine because the sample used is large for both. Toews = 117 games. Zetterberg = 132 games.

Zetterberg has better playoff numbers than Toews overall. Toews is not a better playoff performer overall.

I don't think he is taking it personal, I think he is appauled that you actually think that Toews is a better playoff performer knowing that the Blackhawks have a better team and have played much more games in the past 3 years and you're sort of holding it against Z since you mentioned how he only had 2 and 3 points in the playoffs while Toews had higher numbers. Well obviously because he only played like 2 games last year and only 7 this year while Toews played 19 games last year and 23 this year.... I know you're not into advance stats but this is just pure logic and simple math that we learn in elementary school. You can't honestly think you can make an argument out of Z being inferior when he only played 2 and 7 games.

Toews over Zetterberg on the Red Wings roster?

The answer is Zetterberg.

Z can put up just as many points as Toews in the regular season on a worse team.

If Z were on the Blackhawks he would easily break 80 points during the season. Easily.

Frank I think you're just falling into the media trap. They glorify Toews. He is basically the face of Canadian hockey next to Crosby. Don't like them persuade you! Facts and numbers don't lie. And no I don't mean advance stats I mean simple addition and subtraction.

Edited by kickazz

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Well if you think the playoff argument doesn't fly because the Hawks have played more games I can do the same. The PPG argument doesn't fly because obviously Z is 34 and Toews is 27 so for sure Z should have a better PPG because he has been in more playoffs series overall.

Anyway I think you are taking this way too personal instead of rationally. So I ask you this all things aside would you take Toews over Z right now yes or no ?

Frank......its harder to sustain a high average the more games you play, not the other way around. Either way, its no question who the better player is today as Z has definitely declined with age, but I still believe that Toews is the most overrated player in the NHL.

And no the defense is not widely the difference. I remember Zetterberg shutting down Toews and making Toews cry in the penalty box in playoff series we played against them.

Yup.....yet he's still considered the leader and the #1 reason why the Hawks have won 3 cups. That was the moment Seabrook showed me who the true leader of the Hawks is. Keith/Seabrook deserve alot more credit then they get. I'm sick of Toews being talked about like he is the best player in the league.

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Crosby for sure has best backhand.

I actually think Zetterberg has a better backhand than Datsyuk. Only very slightly tho. Datsyuk's shot is definitely very quick (as it should be for a high finesse player like him), but Z is very strong on his backhand, and the accuracy is deadly. It was like his go-to shot in his prime .. the guy could score with it from the worst angles possible.

I remember this one made my jaw drop pretty hard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amOufDbUBx0

The accuracy is ridic

I prefer datsyuks backhand to zs, I consider them at or around the same level in accuracy and speed, and they both have an incredible awareness of where the corners of the net are without looking up.

But Datsyuks release mannn.

It's just so damn beautiful.

Quick described it quite well in the article, but When he comes up the wing and cuts into the slot, the position his body is in looks like he's about to shoot it forehand 160ft down the ice towards his own goal. There's no logical reason for his shots to be that accurate from that far out without taking the time to set his hands up.

I can't remember who it was against or I'd search it up on YouTube, but when they slowed it down he didn't pull his blade back to aim the shot until after the puck was leaving his stick. In the time it took the puck to get from heel to toe he rolled his hands quick enough to aim.

Its insane.

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Part 2 of the article, featuring Stamkos, Kopitar, Tavares, Seguin and others.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jonathan-quick-elite-nhl-snipers-part-2/

Good read, Kopitar... Have to agree, one of the best two way centers currently. Most recent playoffs and Stamkos having trouble producing at times brings question and he should adapt next time with more experience

Part 2 of the article, featuring Stamkos, Kopitar, Tavares, Seguin and others.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jonathan-quick-elite-nhl-snipers-part-2/

Good read, Kopitar... Have to agree, one of the best two way centers currently. Most recent playoffs and Stamkos having trouble producing at times brings question and he should adapt next time with more experience

^^^^ smart phone and browser no so smart eh oops sorry

Edited by Rivalred

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