DRW Dominance 255 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 i'm surprised no one posted this yet. seems high to me. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/flyers-sign-jacob-voracek-to-eight-year-extension/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 I mean he's a point per game player. That's pretty much what they go for now. Not like he got Toews Kane money. Freaking ROR got 7.5 per. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 I agree with your overall point, but I wouldn't look too much into your examples. Toews and Kane are worth whatever they want, for the most part. You can surround them with anybody else and they win you Cups. The return on investment with those two is insane. With O'Reilly it's just a matter of a bad team trying to put itself on the map. Any competitive team wouldn't have paid him that. But Buffalo desperately needs some legitimacy, to get it you need good players, and to get them (if you're a small market and you suck) you have to overpay. Guys like O'Reilly ain't going to Buffalo for the girls and the nightlife. 1 haroldsnepsts reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 I mean he's a point per game player. That's pretty much what they go for now. Not like he got Toews Kane money. Freaking ROR got 7.5 per. Exactly. Not a bad deal at all especially when you compare his contract with the horrible contracts by Kane and Toews. 1 kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 I agree with your overall point, but I wouldn't look too much into your examples. Toews and Kane are worth whatever they want, for the most part. You can surround them with anybody else and they win you Cups. The return on investment with those two is insane. With O'Reilly it's just a matter of a bad team trying to put itself on the map. Any competitive team wouldn't have paid him that. But Buffalo desperately needs some legitimacy, to get it you need good players, and to get them (if you're a small market and you suck) you have to overpay. Guys like O'Reilly ain't going to Buffalo for the girls and the nightlife. So you think the contract is bad or no? More examples: Tarasenko at 7.5 or Stepan at 6.5. Voracek was 5th in the entire league in scoring this last season. And he's big and he's young. I'm saying he pretty much got market value. 1 DatsyukianDekes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) I guess he has an upside but a single PPG season is kind of a gamble. But this is the current type of market the NHL is in so. No surprises. Edited July 31, 2015 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 So you think the contract is bad or no? More examples: Tarasenko at 7.5 or Stepan at 6.5. Voracek was 5th in the entire league in scoring this last season. And he's big and he's young. I'm saying he pretty much got market value. I think he probably got paid a little too much. But not terribly so. I guess my overall point is that for negotiation purposes, contracts for guys like Kane, Toews, and ROR matter. But in determining a players actual value they don't say much. All three of those guys got paid the way they did because of externalities. I guess what I'm saying is, there's a tendency to think "Well if O'Reilly got 7.5 then Voracek is worth 8.5". Which is how contract negotiations work, I understand, but it's flawed because O'Reilly isn't actually worth 7.5. He's just worth that to a desperate team. 1 haroldsnepsts reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 Most Philly fans are happy with it. He is a 80 pts plus player and has improved tremendously, so a fair contract. Next up are the two big guns Kopitar and Stamkos who will both shatter the 10,5 aav from Toews and Kane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) I think he probably got paid a little too much. But not terribly so. I guess my overall point is that for negotiation purposes, contracts for guys like Kane, Toews, and ROR matter. But in determining a players actual value they don't say much. All three of those guys got paid the way they did because of externalities. I guess what I'm saying is, there's a tendency to think "Well if O'Reilly got 7.5 then Voracek is worth 8.5". Which is how contract negotiations work, I understand, but it's flawed because O'Reilly isn't actually worth 7.5. He's just worth that to a desperate team. Then use Tarasenko as an example. They got very similar contracts.I thought "freaking ROR" would illustrate my belief and the common fact that he is overpaid Edited July 31, 2015 by number9 1 kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 Most Philly fans are happy with it. He is a 80 pts plus player and has improved tremendously, so a fair contract. Next up are the two big guns Kopitar and Stamkos who will both shatter the 10,5 aav from Toews and Kane. For some reason I see kopi taking a bit less...He's seems like more of a big picture guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 For some reason I see kopi taking a bit less... He's seems like more of a big picture guy. A bit maybe but I don't think he'll come in at less than 10 aav..Kopitar is almost like a bigger version of Bergeron. Stamkos can ask for the moon and he'll get it. Sure it will cost Tampa a record breaking contract but the only better player is Crosby wIth Toews being a solid 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,476 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 Voracek has literally *1* point per game season. The rest are all 40-50 points. I firmly believe this contract is a huge gamble. Another example of teams (ugh Philly again) over inflating contracts based on one good performance 1 kickazz reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonballgtz 273 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 Most Philly fans are happy with it. He is a 80 pts plus player and has improved tremendously, so a fair contract. Next up are the two big guns Kopitar and Stamkos who will both shatter the 10,5 aav from Toews and Kane. Stamkos might get Weber salary money, like $14M. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) A bit maybe but I don't think he'll come in at less than 10 aav..Kopitar is almost like a bigger version of Bergeron. Stamkos can ask for the moon and he'll get it. Sure it will cost Tampa a record breaking contract but the only better player is Crosby wIth Toews being a solid 3. Toews is def not a top 3 player. I can see Stamkos being fair on his contract. Seems liek a solid leader and team first guy to me. But he will def get paid high. edit - meant to say top 3 not top 5 Edited July 31, 2015 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 A bit maybe but I don't think he'll come in at less than 10 aav..Kopitar is almost like a bigger version of Bergeron. Stamkos can ask for the moon and he'll get it. Sure it will cost Tampa a record breaking contract but the only better player is Crosby wIth Toews being a solid 3.Toews on ice play isn't top 5 to me, but given all that he brings to a team makes up for his lack of elite offensive skill.And agreed on kopitar being a bigger Bergeron, but I still think hell take around 9. If he makes it to UFA, I'd loveeeee for the wings to push for him. And stamkos had a down year and still put up 70+ points, plus he's only 25, but with his leg injury and his play seeming to be at a lower level since the injury, I could see him and his agent trying to get as much as possible just in case he falls off a cliff or injuries end up biting him. I know it was a freak leg injury, but you don't break a bone that bad without weakening the surrounding structure. I kind of hope he goes to Toronto though, leave Steve yzerman with cap space and he he has two number one centers right now...let them get their cup out of the way then have to pay all the rfas so they can level out again... And Toronto would ruin stamkos, which is why Im cool with him going there. Voracek has literally *1* point per game season. The rest are all 40-50 points. I firmly believe this contract is a huge gamble. Another example of teams (ugh Philly again) over inflating contracts based on one good performance He is still young though... As long as he stays healthy he should be alright, the contract is still pretty crazy, but hes important to their future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Toews is def not a top 3 player. I can see Stamkos being fair on his contract. Seems liek a solid leader and team first guy to me. But he will def get paid high. edit - meant to say top 3 not top 5 Well what do you consider fair? Personally I think 90 million over 8 years would be fair others might find it a bit high maybe but I think expecting anything less than at least 11 aav would be a huge mistake. Stamkos has all the leverage here.As far as Toews there aren't many players I'd prefer over him Crosby and Stamkos for sure and maybe Keith, Doughty but that's about it. Edited July 31, 2015 by frankgrimes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 I guess 90/8 could happen seeing as though Toews/Kane got 84/8. dam it's ridiculous money tho. the toews/kane standrad for contract really screws things up for other orgs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) I guess 90/8 could happen seeing as though Toews/Kane got 84/8. dam it's ridiculous money tho. the toews/kane standrad for contract really screws things up for other orgs I don't think it does, Stamkos would have gotten paid a lot no matter what. To a lesser extent so still Kopitar I know some kings fans expect him at 8 or in the low 9s but that's not going to happen.Yeah it's a lot of money but compared to other sports it's peanuts, hockey is one of the most demanding team sports physically and mentally. When I'm thinking of Giroux and Voracek I'm thinking of a poor mans version of Toews and Kane. Also keep in mind how loaded Snyder is 66 million over 8 years will barely change his massive bank account Edited July 31, 2015 by frankgrimes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 Voracek has literally *1* point per game season. The rest are all 40-50 points. I firmly believe this contract is a huge gamble. Another example of teams (ugh Philly again) over inflating contracts based on one good performance Definitely a gamble, but he's a player that that team can't afford to lose at this point. He's got some leverage. Not like Giroux fed the guy all season either. Voracek outscored him and acted as pretty darn good playmaker. 1 MrazekFanBoy reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 I'm guessing Kopitar gets a contract similar to this one. Somewhere around 8. Stamkos has slowed a touch these past two seasons. If he starts flirting with 100 pts again I can see him getting a huge aav, but another 72 point season and Yzerman would be dumb to give him anything much higher than 9. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,958 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 contracts are getting out of control...Stamkos is worth this, Voracek? Nyet. Crosby, yes, ROR, nien. Market is going out of this universe again. But, these guys are still nowhere near the other sports, especially when a under .500 pitcher with an ERA of 4+ makes $10M+ a year, something is wrong. Don't even get me going on the NBA... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mckinley25 677 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 contracts are getting out of control...Stamkos is worth this, Voracek? Nyet. Crosby, yes, ROR, nien. Market is going out of this universe again. But, these guys are still nowhere near the other sports, especially when a under .500 pitcher with an ERA of 4+ makes $10M+ a year, something is wrong. Don't even get me going on the NBA... So what does an all star pitcher make? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 Coming off his first career point-per-game year. This is quite the gamble. He's still young and important to the future of the team, but this is a massive gamble, in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 So what does an all star pitcher make?20+ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,476 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 I'm guessing Kopitar gets a contract similar to this one. Somewhere around 8. Stamkos has slowed a touch these past two seasons. If he starts flirting with 100 pts again I can see him getting a huge aav, but another 72 point season and Yzerman would be dumb to give him anything much higher than 9. That's what breaking a leg will do to a hockey player. That's why I'm not ready to give up on mantha after a year. He should be much better this year, same with stammer. Stamkos is 25 he hasn't even hit his peak yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites