Voracek gets rich! over 8mil per

[number9 3,297]

That's what breaking a leg will do to a hockey player. That's why I'm not ready to give up on mantha after a year. He should be much better this year, same with stammer. Stamkos is 25 he hasn't even hit his peak yet

I'm not ready to give up on Mantha either.

Forgot Stammer is only 25. You know who's also only 25? Voracek

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I'm not ready to give up on Mantha either.

Forgot Stammer is only 25. You know who's also only 25? Voracek

Ya. Difference being,

Stamkos 4 40+ goal seasons including a 50 & 60 goal season

3 90 + point seasons

Voracek has 3 20+ goal seasons (22,23,22)

1 81 point season

Also voracek is a year older, will be 26 in two weeks

[DRW Dominance 255]

voracek is good. no doubt about that and who knows....in 5 years maybe 8 mil will be a steal. I just don't see it. this contract screams buyout to me.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

voracek is good. no doubt about that and who knows....in 5 years maybe 8 mil will be a steal. I just don't see it. this contract screams buyout to me.

I agree. Philly has a bad history with dumb contracts that could go either way and usually bite them in the ass in the long run

[DRW Dominance 255]

8 mil for me is a game changer type player. voracek isn't that. Jamie benn goes in the list as well and I'm only picking him cause he led the league in scoring.

[kickazz 5,459]

If kopitars market value ends up being around 8 or 9 and he ends up exploring market, wings should try to be all over that. I hope Kings miss playoffs again so it helps his decision to leave.

Unlikely tho

[number9 3,297]

Ya. Difference being,

Stamkos 4 40+ goal seasons including a 50 & 60 goal season

3 90 + point seasons

Voracek has 3 20+ goal seasons (22,23,22)

1 81 point season

Also voracek is a year older, will be 26 in two weeks

Which is why I suggested Stammer will get around 9, unless he returns to to that form, then he'll get more.

Prices are going up. Guys who once would have made 6 or 7 are making 8 and 9 now. Sure a price like 7.5 like Tarasenko got would have been better, but the difference isn't going to break them.

[kickazz 5,459]

I'm probably in the minority here but I think Stamkos has already hit his peak pre-injury. My opinion is that he comes close to replicating his numbers (90 point range) but I'm not sure if he will surpass his previous season highs.

If he has another 70 point season his contract will be lesser.

Edited July 31, 2015 by kickazz

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

I guess he has an upside but a single PPG season is kind of a gamble.

But this is the current type of market the NHL is in so. No surprises.

Toews has 1 PPG season in the lockout year, how does he warrant 10.8 million again? Oh right, he's a "great leader" blah blah blah so he gets an extra 2.8 million.

A bit maybe but I don't think he'll come in at less than 10 aav..Kopitar is almost like a bigger version of Bergeron. Stamkos can ask for the moon and he'll get it. Sure it will cost Tampa a record breaking contract but the only better player is Crosby wIth Toews being a solid 3.

Crosby

Malkin

Ovechkin

Tavares

Giroux

5 players right there that are better then Toews.

Voracek has literally *1* point per game season. The rest are all 40-50 points. I firmly believe this contract is a huge gamble. Another example of teams (ugh Philly again) over inflating contracts based on one good performance

He had 62 points the year before that..

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I'm probably in the minority here but I think Stamkos has already hit his peak pre-injury. My opinion is that he comes close to replicating his numbers (90 point range) but I'm not sure if he will surpass his previous season highs.

If he has another 70 point season his contract will be lesser.

You're not alone...

He came into the league, tore it up immediately and didn't look like he was at the same level post injury.

His resume up to this point is pretty incredible, I just don't see him replicating it.

He's going to get his huge deal, because he's still so young, but I think he peaked really early and is going to settle back down Around or just below a ppg for the next five years, if his leg doesn't hamper him going forward.

Which isn't bad at all, that's still really damn good, just not elite like he once was.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Toews has 1 PPG season in the lockout year, how does he warrant 10.8 million again? Oh right, he's a "great leader" blah blah blah so he gets an extra 2.8 million.

Crosby

Malkin

Ovechkin

Tavares

Giroux

5 players right there that are better then Toews.

He had 62 points the year before that..

Malkin had 1 outstanding season, sadly against us but OV really ? Yeah guy is a great scorer probably one of the best ever but he isn't anywhere close to the terms of leadership and iron will Toews has. Toews may not be elite at one thing but he is very good at almost everything, which makes him perfect player in almost every situation. I wouldn't break a sweat having him out in the last minute of the game but I would if OV was out there, he just doesn't know how to play defense which is okay not everyone can be a perfect two way player.

Tavares is debatable but I'm waiting till I can see what he can do with a g reat team and an ownership willing to spend, Toews has already proven what he can do and he does year after year after year. Tavares is an unbelievable player and I'd die to have him on this team but people should wait till his new contract which will also be a record breaking one if Tavares gets better and better I expect at least 80 over 8 for him too.

Giroux is better offensively but overall ? No way I'd much rather have Toews even with his higher cap hit.

He's going to get his huge deal, because he's still so young, but I think he peaked really early and is going to settle back down Around or just below a ppg for the next five years, if his leg doesn't hamper him going forward.

Which isn't bad at all, that's still really damn good, just not elite like he once was.

Stamkos doesn't turn 25 till later this year and he came back from a broken leg so I really expect him to be back at his former self this season, I mean legs are one of the most important things for a hockeyplayer, which is why I hated the dumb comment from Mr. Cattle regarding Mantha's performance.

I mean is there really anyone who wouldn't pay a guy like Toews 84 million over 8, or Stamkos 90 over 8 IF they were available ? If I'm a multi billionaire (like most owners are), I'd fly down there and right t he check immediately.

Edited July 31, 2015 by frankgrimes

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Malkin had 1 outstanding season, sadly against us but OV really ? Yeah guy is a great scorer probably one of the best ever but he isn't anywhere close to the terms of leadership and iron will Toews has. Toews may not be elite at one thing but he is very good at almost everything, which makes him perfect player in almost every situation. I wouldn't break a sweat having him out in the last minute of the game but I would if OV was out there, he just doesn't know how to play defense which is okay not everyone can be a perfect two way player.

Tavares is debatable but I'm waiting till I can see what he can do with a g reat team and an ownership willing to spend, Toews has already proven what he can do and he does year after year after year. Tavares is an unbelievable player and I'd die to have him on this team but people should wait till his new contract which will also be a record breaking one if Tavares gets better and better I expect at least 80 over 8 for him too.

Giroux is better offensively but overall ? No way I'd much rather have Toews even with his higher cap hit.

Stamkos doesn't turn 25 till later this year and he came back from a broken leg so I really expect him to be back at his former self this season, I mean legs are one of the most important things for a hockeyplayer, which is why I hated the dumb comment from Mr. Cattle regarding Mantha's performance.

I mean is there really anyone who wouldn't pay a guy like Toews 84 million over 8, or Stamkos 90 over 8 IF they were available ? If I'm a multi billionaire (like most owners are), I'd fly down there and right t he check immediately.

From the other thread, Toews last 3 seasons. His defense doesn't make up for his shortcomings, especially playing on the best team in the NHL. By your standards Bergeron is better then Toews since he out performed Toews offensively and won two Selke's the last 3 seasons.

2012-2013

47GP 48P

2013-2014

76GP 68P

2014-2015

81GP 66P

Does not warrant 10.8 million.

Edited July 31, 2015 by darkmanx

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

As a side note frank, do you want to compare Toews resume vs Ovi's ?

Ovi will be the best player to ever play his position, Toews won't even be top 50. Ovi is by far the superior player, please do try to prove this wrong.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

As a side note frank, do you want to compare Toews resume vs Ovi's ?

Ovi will be the best player to ever play his position, Toews won't even be top 50. Ovi is by far the superior player, please do try to prove this wrong.

OV is great as an individual but he is not a guy I would want as captain of my team nor as my go to guy when the game matters the most (playoffs game 7 !). God it pisses me of that I have to "defend" a Blackhawk here but the guy just has "it" OV is the better goal scorer no question but in terms of leadership, defense and team-frist-attitude I'd never take him over Toews. As great as OV is one guy that is really heavily underrated on the Capitals is Backstrom that guy can make unbelievable passes and everyone knows that OV has a rocket from the blueline.

Teams are built around centers and defense first not around wingers.

Sure the Voracek contract is a gamble but if he would have put up another 80 pts + season Philly would have had to pay even more maybe north of 9 to re-sign him.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

OV is great as an individual but he is not a guy I would want as captain of my team nor as my go to guy when the game matters the most (playoffs game 7 !). God it pisses me of that I have to "defend" a Blackhawk here but the guy just has "it" OV is the better goal scorer no question but in terms of leadership, defense and team-frist-attitude I'd never take him over Toews. As great as OV is one guy that is really heavily underrated on the Capitals is Backstrom that guy can make unbelievable passes and everyone knows that OV has a rocket from the blueline.

Teams are built around centers and defense first not around wingers.

Sure the Voracek contract is a gamble but if he would have put up another 80 pts + season Philly would have had to pay even more maybe north of 9 to re-sign him.

Ovi scores goals, whats the point of Hockey? to put the puck into the net. Ov is superior offensively and it's not even close.

In terms of leadership Do you know Ovi personally? didn't think so therefore your "leadership" argument is out the window.

Toews plays on a better team so he inherits more success from that. Playing on a line with arguably one of the best defensive wingers in the NHL helps your defense look better then it really is.

Making the playoffs is a team stat, not an individual.... do you want a list of top players that played the game that didn't make the playoffs?

Edited July 31, 2015 by darkmanx

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Ovi scores goals, whats the point of Hockey? to put the puck into the net. Ov is superior offensively and it's not even close.

In terms of leadership Do you know Ovi personally? didn't think so therefore your "leadership" argument is out the window.

Toews plays on a better team so he inherits more success from that. Playing on a line with arguably one of the best defensive wingers in the NHL helps your defense look better then it really is.

Making the playoffs is a team stat, not an individual.... do you want a list of top players that played the game that didn't make the playoffs?

As a matter of fact I don't know any of these guys personally but I know what other players and the trusted sources (TSN and the likes) are saying about the player. When almost everyone in the entire NHL is praising the leadership qualities of a guy there must be some truth to it right ?

Yes making the playoffs is a team stat but once the playoffs are going you need your best players to be the best and looking at the recent game 7 performances I would honestly give the node to Toews here.

But it really doesn't matter you think OV is the better player and I think Toews is it and I've said the same thing before the Hawks won their first damn cup, that Toews kid is a really really special player. As a matter of fact I've read the same discussions back t hen when I was one of only 2 ! people who had hm in their top 10 - 15 players in the world back then.

Yes I know he is a Blackhawk and I would love nothing more than some cowboys taking their freaking scalps on the ice but I looking at it rationally I just can't hate Toews, Hossa, Keith and Seabrook they are extremely good players and it (sadly) shows. Is OV a great individual player? OH YES ! is he a team first guy or leader ? Jugding by what I've seen and read about him I don't think so.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

As a matter of fact I don't know any of these guys personally but I know what other players and the trusted sources (TSN and the likes) are saying about the player. When almost everyone in the entire NHL is praising the leadership qualities of a guy there must be some truth to it right ?

Yes making the playoffs is a team stat but once the playoffs are going you need your best players to be the best and looking at the recent game 7 performances I would honestly give the node to Toews here.

But it really doesn't matter you think OV is the better player and I think Toews is it and I've said the same thing before the Hawks won their first damn cup, that Toews kid is a really really special player. As a matter of fact I've read the same discussions back t hen when I was one of only 2 ! people who had hm in their top 10 - 15 players in the world back then.

Yes I know he is a Blackhawk and I would love nothing more than some cowboys taking their freaking scalps on the ice but I looking at it rationally I just can't hate Toews, Hossa, Keith and Seabrook they are extremely good players and it (sadly) shows. Is OV a great individual player? OH YES ! is he a team first guy or leader ? Jugding by what I've seen and read about him I don't think so.

Yea, let's trust TSN as a resource, they are never wrong...

Toews = Canadian

Ovi = Russian

I am still waiting for you to show me statistically using all stats including advanced stats that Toews is better then Ovi. You cannot measure intangibles so they don't belong in the conversation since me and you don't know either of them, and TSN doesn't either since they are not in the locker room.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Yea, let's trust TSN as a resource, they are never wrong...

Toews = Canadian

Ovi = Russian

I am still waiting for you to show me statistically using all stats including advanced stats that Toews is better then Ovi. You cannot measure intangibles so they don't belong in the conversation since me and you don't know either of them, and TSN doesn't either since they are not in the locker room.

I'm not going into the nerd-stats because I'm not interested in them if you trust them fine I don't. I've said countless times that OV is the better goalscorer but OVERALL I'd take Toews just look at the Selke nominations for the best two-way-player who many does OV have ? Yes 0 nominations Toews doesn't only have nominations he has also won one. So if you want to build your team around a one dimenionsal (but obviously elite at that) player fine, I'd trust my gut and take an excellent two-way-player who has shown that he can will himself and his team to a cup(s).

[wings4thecup06 504]

How can the league expect teams like Florida and Phoenix to compete when there's contracts like this going around? Its nuts. I know i'm banging the same old drum, and I know its both players and owners and GMs driving up salaries, but I still don't think anyone is worth that, and we're headed for another lockout and possibly another rollback of salaries. This will only end when the league implements a rule unlinking the cap from league revenues. Its murder....

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

I'm not going into the nerd-stats because I'm not interested in them if you trust them fine I don't. I've said countless times that OV is the better goalscorer but OVERALL I'd take Toews just look at the Selke nominations for the best two-way-player who many does OV have ? Yes 0 nominations Toews doesn't only have nominations he has also won one. So if you want to build your team around a one dimenionsal (but obviously elite at that) player fine, I'd trust my gut and take an excellent two-way-player who has shown that he can will himself and his team to a cup(s).

Since your bringing up Toews selke's, and great two way play. Let's see if the gap is really that close for the defensive argument you are clinging to.

Let's compare the resumes to show how Toews all around play doesn't account for Ovi's all around play.

Toews:

1 Selke

1 Conn Smythe

Oh yea, that 1 selke really shows Toews is soo great defensively. He is absolutely just miles above everyone else, especially Ovi. He has a whopping 1 more Selke after all. Like I said before, are you saying Bergeron is better then Toews?

Ovechkin:

2005-06 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy

2007-08 NHL Art Ross Trophy

2007-08 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy

2007-08 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

2007-08 NHL Ted Lindsay Award

2008-09 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy

2008-09 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

2008-09 NHL Ted Lindsay Award

2009-10 NHL Ted Lindsay Award

2012-13 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy

2012-13 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

2013-14 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

2014-15 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

Oh yea, let me also mention one of these players is a generational talent, the other is just a very good player.

[number9 3,297]

Since your bringing up Toews selke's, and great two way play. Let's see if the gap is really that close for the defensive argument you are clinging to.

Let's compare the resumes to show how Toews all around play doesn't account for Ovi's all around play.

Toews:

1 Selke

1 Conn Smythe

Oh yea, that 1 selke really shows Toews is soo great defensively. He is absolutely just miles above everyone else, especially Ovi. He has a whopping 1 more Selke after all. Like I said before, are you saying Bergeron is better then Toews?

Ovechkin:

2005-06 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy

2007-08 NHL Art Ross Trophy

2007-08 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy

2007-08 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

2007-08 NHL Ted Lindsay Award

2008-09 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy

2008-09 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

2008-09 NHL Ted Lindsay Award

2009-10 NHL Ted Lindsay Award

2012-13 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy

2012-13 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

2013-14 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

2014-15 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy

Oh yea, let me also mention one of these players is a generational talent, the other is just a very good player.

Logic + Facts = Nerdy + Math Freak

Nerdy + Math Freak = You lose, you get nothing, good day sir

My knock on Ovi is his commitment to defense. It has lapsed at times. Otherwise he's an absolute bull in a china shop/freak of nature generational talent

My knock on Toews is he's overly praised for being on a very good team that he happens to captain, so he gets a ton of attention. He's also Canadian, so he gets ton of attention. He's pretty much supplanted Crosby as the NHL's "can't do wrong" "favoritest player" golden boy. Otherwise he's a very hard working player on all ends of the ice.

My edge goes easily to Ovi. Had Ovi been Canadian and drafted in Toews spot on the Hawks, and Toews Russian and drafted in Ovi's spot on the Caps... Toews would be talked about like Backstrom and Ovi would be talked about like Super Mario.

Edited August 1, 2015 by number9

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Logic + Facts = Nerdy + Math Freak

Nerdy + Math Freak = You lose, you get nothing, good day sir

My knock on Ovi is his commitment to defense. It has lapsed at times. Otherwise he's an absolute bull in a china shop/freak of nature generational talent

My knock on Toews is he's overly praised for being on a very good team that he happens to captain, so he gets a ton of attention. He's also Canadian, so he gets ton of attention. He's pretty much supplanted Crosby as the NHL's "can't do wrong" "favoritest player" golden boy. Otherwise he's a very hard working player on all ends of the ice.

My edge goes easily to Ovi. Had Ovi been Canadian and drafted in Toews spot on the Hawks, and Toews Russian and drafted in Ovi's spot on the Caps... Toews would be talked about like Backstrom and Ovi would be talked about like Super Mario.

Backstrom = Luigi? or perhaps toad?

[number9 3,297]

Backstrom = Luigi? or perhaps toad?

Ha.

Naaaa he's like the first goomba you encounter on the first level of the original super mario bros. You forget he exists and run into him right away and die. He's not anything special, but extremely underrated in how many lives he takes from noobies and those who haven't played in a while.

Edited August 1, 2015 by number9

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Ha.

Naaaa he's like the first goomba you encounter on the first level of the original super mario bros. You forget he exists and run into him right away and die. He's not anything special, but extremely underrated in how many lives he takes from noobies and those who haven't played in a while.

For the math freaks I wonder what the total statistics of deaths caused are of that goomba. Once we know that the math freaks can then figure out how to defend against it.

[number9 3,297]

For the math freaks I wonder what the total statistics of deaths caused are of that goomba. Once we know that the math freaks can then figure out how to defend against it.

It doesn't matter. 2nd goomba was a great leader and therefore will always be better.