Kane case headed to grand jury

[MasterPavel 115]

Catch 22

Hawks should put him on the shelf until this is resolved

Innocent until proven guilty?

Yeah, stay classy Chicago

This case needs to be observed individualy of the voynov case. Each case is unique unto their own. The evidence was pretty discerning immediately after it unfolded regarding voynov. However there has not been enough evidence to indict Kane at this point. I am by no means defending kane, and believe his reputation precedes him. Also I am a prosecutor not a defense attorney, but I am reminded of a case that I studied regarding rape. A USC football player was accused of rape by a high school "friend", and sentenced to 15 years. 2 years later, while he was in prison she came clean that it was a bribe contrived by her mother. I'm not saying he is innocent, but we need to take our fan bias out of the equation until our justice system rules on the case. Is it perfect? No, however the system gets it right more than it gets it wrong. In this case there isn't enough evidence to send it straight to trial, so let's wait to judge the league until after. Edited September 18, 2015 by MasterPavel

[number9 3,297]

This case needs to be observed individualy of the voynov case. Each case is unique unto their own. The evidence was pretty discerning immediately after it unfolded regarding voynov. However there has not been enough evidence to indict Kane at this point. I am by no means defending kane, and believe his reputation precedes him. Also I am a prosecutor not a defense attorney, but I am reminded of a case that I studied regarding rape. A USC football player was accused of rape by a high school "friend", and sentenced to 15 years. 2 years later, while he was in prison she came clean that it was a bribe contrived by her mother. I'm not saying he is innocent, but we need to take our fan bias out of the equation until our justice system rules on the case. Is it perfect? No, however the system gets it right more than it gets it wrong. In this case there isn't enough evidence to send it straight to trial, so let's wait to judge the league until after.

Out here in Buffalo I've heard convincing rumors that he did and didn't do it. At this point I think it's fair for Chicago to give him the benefit of the doubt. Fact is the man is still innocent at this point.

If that changes I'm all for swift and harsh punishment

The best thing that can happen is this goes to grand jury and the truth is exposed for better or worse

[Echolalia 2,961]

If he was a fourth line grinder and not a star player, I wonder if Chicago would still allow him to come to camp.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Echolalia

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-patrick-kane-blackhawks-haugh-spt-0918-20150917-column.html

I vehemently disagree with those of you who think he should be allowed to play. The stakes are too damn high. If he is suspended and later found to be not guilty, then it's a public apology and a "I'm just glad we can move past this." By not suspending him pending the outcome, at worst the Blackhawks organization and the NHL have sanctioned a rapist, alienated a substantial number of fans, and taken a hot, steaming s*** all over the victim. I can't fathom why this is a chance they are willing to take. Even from a soulless, strictly business perspective, this sounds like the most heinous of PR nightmares.

[number9 3,297]

If he was a fourth line grinder and not a star player, I wonder if Chicago would still allow him to come to camp.

the only difference would be the amount of media attention. I believe the hawks have handled this correctly so far. Until the man has been convicted of a crime he should be able to perform his job, however spotlight worthy it is.

[number9 3,297]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-patrick-kane-blackhawks-haugh-spt-0918-20150917-column.html

I vehemently disagree with those of you who think he should be allowed to play. The stakes are too damn high. If he is suspended and later found to be not guilty, then it's a public apology and a "I'm just glad we can move past this." By not suspending him pending the outcome, at worst the Blackhawks organization and the NHL have sanctioned a rapist, alienated a substantial number of fans, and taken a hot, steaming s*** all over the victim. I can't fathom why this is a chance they are willing to take. Even from a soulless, strictly business perspective, this sounds like the most heinous of PR nightmares.

Obviously we're going to butt heads on this BOS. Just know I'm 100% for conviction if he's guilty. If he's able and allowed to pay off this victim the whole situation will suck. He will escape prosecution because he's rich.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-patrick-kane-blackhawks-haugh-spt-0918-20150917-column.html

I vehemently disagree with those of you who think he should be allowed to play. The stakes are too damn high. If he is suspended and later found to be not guilty, then it's a public apology and a "I'm just glad we can move past this." By not suspending him pending the outcome, at worst the Blackhawks organization and the NHL have sanctioned a rapist, alienated a substantial number of fans, and taken a hot, steaming s*** all over the victim. I can't fathom why this is a chance they are willing to take. Even from a soulless, strictly business perspective, this sounds like the most heinous of PR nightmares.

It would be a dangerous to set up a situation where every professional athlete would be banned if they have an allegation against them. Beyond this situation, it's also about protecting players' rights. I really don't like Kane and it wouldn't shock me if he's guilty, but the way they deal with this sets a president. What if there's a similar situation where we all think the person's completely innocent?

I think the Blackhawks and the league have to walk a fine line here, but I don't think they could ban someone there isn't even any charges yet. Both Voynov and Richards were charged. It is a different situation.

Even if Kane's found guilty, they're not sanctioning a rapist, they don't know the facts and waiting out the legal process. I have a question to think about for your logic: If they banned him and the allegations are found to be false why wouldn't they be sanctioning defamation, alienating players and Kane supporters and taking that steaming pile to Kane's head?

Edited September 18, 2015 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[55fan 5,133]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-patrick-kane-blackhawks-haugh-spt-0918-20150917-column.html

I vehemently disagree with those of you who think he should be allowed to play. The stakes are too damn high. If he is suspended and later found to be not guilty, then it's a public apology and a "I'm just glad we can move past this." By not suspending him pending the outcome, at worst the Blackhawks organization and the NHL have sanctioned a rapist, alienated a substantial number of fans, and taken a hot, steaming s*** all over the victim. I can't fathom why this is a chance they are willing to take. Even from a soulless, strictly business perspective, this sounds like the most heinous of PR nightmares.

I see where you're coming from. Rape is nasty business.

However, if he is suspended before it goes to a grand jury, that also opens a door for false claims. Imagine if someone had thought that the Wings were going to beat Tampa last spring so a Tampa fangirl claimed that Tatar or Gus or one of our players had raped her knowing that they'd be immediately suspended.

It wouldn't have to be a fan. If someone had a large wager or even if there was a gambling organization that wanted to drop the odds, all they would have to do would be to find a girl to make the claim, even if it would fall apart later.

If he's guilty, the team and/or league can ban him for life and be making a statement. If he's innocent, there is no reason that he should have to suffer for something he hasn't done. (We'll find other reasons to hate him.)

The only ones who can be judge and jury are the judge and jury.

[kipwinger 8,524]

The league isn't a court of law and doesn't have to play by the same rules. Pretty much every Commissioner in every sport has discretionary authority to suspend players if they're accused of something which tarnishes the league's image, or has the potential to do so. Which is why Roger Goodell could suspend Tom Brady and Ray Rice, even though neither of them were convicted of a crime.

It's the job of a judge and jury to determine whether Kane committed a crime. It's the job of Gary Bettman to determine whether or not Kane is a problem for the league, which he might be, regardless of his guilt.

Edited September 18, 2015 by kipwinger

[Echolalia 2,961]

Obviously we're going to butt heads on this BOS. Just know I'm 100% for conviction if he's guilty. If he's able and allowed to pay off this victim the whole situation will suck. He will escape prosecution because he's rich.

How exactly does this work, does anyone know? I'm aware that certain situations allow defendants to come to settlements out of court that both sides are willing to take, but where is that line drawn (does that line exist?) where settlements aren't acceptable? Can people come to settlements on murders? Can they actually do it for rape?

[Mckinley25 677]

How exactly does this work, does anyone know? I'm aware that certain situations allow defendants to come to settlements out of court that both sides are willing to take, but where is that line drawn (does that line exist?) where settlements aren't acceptable? Can people come to settlements on murders? Can they actually do it for rape?

A murder wouldn't work because the defendant is being charged by the state. If the victim is pressing the charges in the case of Kane's situation then a settlement could be reached because she could just drop the charges, but if he's being prosecuted by the state then I don't believe that would work.

[kipwinger 8,524]

A murder wouldn't work because the defendant is being charged by the state. If the victim is pressing the charges in the case of Kane's situation then a settlement could be reached because she could just drop the charges, but if he's being prosecuted by the state then I don't believe that would work.

Bingo.

[Echolalia 2,961]

So the state doesn't get involved for rape charges, then, or is it a case by case basis. I guess my main question is what determines if the state decides to get involved

Edited September 18, 2015 by Echolalia

[HockeytownRules19 902]

Frank SeravalliVerified account ‏@frank_seravalli 9m9 minutes ago

Patrick Kane receives the loudest roar from fans as he steps on the ice for the beginning of #Blackhawks camp.

Unreal

[Mckinley25 677]

So the state doesn't get involved for rape charges, then, or is it a case by case basis. I guess my main question is what determines if the state decides to get involved

The state can get involved, depends how the case develops. It's the prosecutor's job to charge citizen's with crimes when they determine that it's warranted. For instance if there was an ongoing investigation of a serial rapist and law enforcement gathered a sufficient amount of evidence the state would press charges. It wouldn't matter if the victim wanted them to or not.

I have no idea how this case is being handled, and everyone is different.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Wow. f*** this guy.

[Echolalia 2,961]

The state can get involved, depends how the case develops. It's the prosecutor's job to charge citizen's with crimes when they determine that it's warranted. For instance if there was an ongoing investigation of a serial rapist and law enforcement gathered a sufficient amount of evidence the state would press charges. It wouldn't matter if the victim wanted them to or not.

I have no idea how this case is being handled, and everyone is different.

thanks for the info

[vladdy16 2,154]

Courtesy of Twitter but I can't find the tweet to credit properly:

[amato 3,210]

Frank SeravalliVerified account ‏@frank_seravalli 9m9 minutes ago

Patrick Kane receives the loudest roar from fans as he steps on the ice for the beginning of #Blackhawks camp.

Unreal

Honestly, I'm disgusted but not surprised. I think I've only met one blackhawk fan I've actually liked as a person.... one. That's out of a pretty huge bandwagon too.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Frank SeravalliVerified account ‏@frank_seravalli 9m9 minutes ago

Patrick Kane receives the loudest roar from fans as he steps on the ice for the beginning of #Blackhawks camp.

Unreal

Ravens fans cheered loudly for Ray Rice at his first practice after assaulting his wife, too.

[number9 3,297]

I hope opposing fans start a rape chant when he's in away barns

[kipwinger 8,524]

RA-PIST, clap, clap, clap

RA-PIST, clap, clap, clap

[number9 3,297]

NO MEANS NOOOO, clap, clap, clapclapclap

[Guest Playmaker]

Please get off the high horses and stop acting like Wings fans wouldn't be doing the exact same thing.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Please get off the high horses and stop acting like Wings fans wouldn't be doing the exact same thing.

If Kane is found not guilty can we all go to the woman's house and chant "liar, liar"?

I actually agree. Wings fans would do the same thing.

That doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't be at training camp right now.