Kane case headed to grand jury

[amato 3,210]

Please get off the high horses and stop acting like Wings fans wouldn't be doing the exact same thing.

And I for one would be equally disgusted, maybe even more.

[vladdy16 2,154]

This headed into political discussion again. Keep it on specifics to the case and Kane specifically.

[kipwinger 8,518]

I didn't realize I'd said anything which wasn't specifically addressing Kane, or the woman, involved in this particular case.

I also didn't realize I'd said anything political. I was trying my hardest NOT to politicize rape.

My bad.

Edited September 18, 2015 by kipwinger

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

Please get off the high horses and stop acting like Wings fans wouldn't be doing the exact same thing.

Speak for yourself. If this was Pavel Datsyuk instead of Patrick Kane, I would be heartbroken if the Wings handled it this way and would tap out until it was made right. I can't control what other fans would do.

[vladdy16 2,154]

I didn't realize I'd said anything which wasn't specifically addressing Kane, or the woman, involved in this particular case.

I also didn't realize I'd said anything political. I was trying my hardest NOT to politicize rape.

My bad.

It's a difficult line to walk. No worries.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Speak for yourself. If this was Pavel Datsyuk instead of Patrick Kane, I would be heartbroken if the Wings handled it this way and would tap out until it was made right. I can't control what other fans would do.

Pavel would never do such a thing. But I agree with what you said nonetheless

[Guest Playmaker]

Pavel would never do such a thing. But I agree with what you said nonetheless

You don't know that. But you'd like to think that you do.

I would not have any problem with the Wings assuming someone was innocent until proven guilty. When Miguel Cabrera's wife called 911 in fear a few years ago, he wasn't suspended by the Tigers and fans don't seem to hold any ill will against him for that or the DUI. Being one of the greatest players of his generation seems to make memories short.

[ami 273]

I would not have any problem with the Wings assuming someone was innocent until proven guilty.

Not only that. I would expect some consistancy from Wings aa well as NHL.

Unfortunately, Voynov was treated as convicted criminal (by everyone, NHL, team, fans!!), LAK paid 10k for letting him attend practice long before he was charged, let alone convicted.

Dany 'killer' Heatly and Patric '20c' Kane are different stories.

[Guest Playmaker]

Not only that. I would expect some consistancy from Wings aa well as NHL.

Unfortunately, Voynov was treated as convicted criminal (by everyone, NHL, team, fans!!), LAK paid 10k for letting him attend practice long before he was charged, let alone convicted.

Dany 'killer' Heatly and Patric '20c' Kane are different stories.

I can't say I disagree with you, Ami. I guess it can be attributed to the social media/pc times that we live in. Its interesting, to say the least,how things are treated so differently now than they were just a few short years ago. The Cabrera incident happened in 2009. His wife had visible scratches on her face, but it was blown off as a mutual participation and a private family matter. When you think about the Heatly situation, that he was allowed to continue his career as though nothing happened after drinking, driving and killing a teammate. Just mind blowing.

Speak for yourself. If this was Pavel Datsyuk instead of Patrick Kane, I would be heartbroken if the Wings handled it this way and would tap out until it was made right. I can't control what other fans would do.

You're right. The Wings would never allow a star player who was committing a crime, but not charged, with, let's say, hypothetically speaking, statutory rape, to continue playing under such heinous circumstances. Classy Wings fans absolutely would never, ever continue to support such a player either. So glad we're not like those awful Blackhawk fans who would cheer for someone who hasn't been charged with any crime. Thankfully that would never actually happen.

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

I can't say I disagree with you, Ami. I guess it can be attributed to the social media/pc times that we live in. Its interesting, to say the least,how things are treated so differently now than they were just a few short years ago. The Cabrera incident happened in 2009. His wife had visible scratches on her face, but it was blown off as a mutual participation and a private family matter. When you think about the Heatly situation, that he was allowed to continue his career as though nothing happened after drinking, driving and killing a teammate. Just mind blowing.

You're right. The Wings would never allow a star player who was committing a crime, but not charged, with, let's say, hypothetically speaking, statutory rape, to continue playing under such heinous circumstances. Classy Wings fans absolutely would never, ever continue to support such a player either. So glad we're not like those awful Blackhawk fans who would cheer for someone who hasn't been charged with any crime. Thankfully that would never actually happen.

Then this is where we differ. To compare the two situations is disingenuous, and if you think they are on a level playing field, then this conversation will never be productive.

[vladdy16 2,154]

You're right. The Wings would never allow a star player who was committing a crime, but not charged, with, let's say, hypothetically speaking, statutory rape, to continue playing under such heinous circumstances. Classy Wings fans absolutely would never, ever continue to support such a player either. So glad we're not like those awful Blackhawk fans who would cheer for someone who hasn't been charged with any crime. Thankfully that would never actually happen.

This does nothing to address what she said. She was very specific in saying she speaks only to how she herself would handle the Wings handling the same situation in the same way. Please desist in attempting to rile others up.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

http://mobile.sportingnews.com/article/4655746-patrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault?modid=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D10%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dno%2520dna%2520of%2520patrick%2520kane%2520in%2520victim%26ved%3D0CDwQFjAJahUKEwiYrN3p2ITIAhUG1B4KHQiAC4Q%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sportingnews.com%252Fnhl%252Fstory%252F2015-09-19%252Fpatrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault%26usg%3DAFQjCNGlLwjtQ91icas2c4AamPkjzjVAOA&&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D10%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dno%2520dna%2520of%2520patrick%2520kane%2520in%2520victim%26ved%3D0CDwQFjAJahUKEwiYrN3p2ITIAhUG1B4KHQiAC4Q%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sportingnews.com%252Fnhl%252Fstory%252F2015-09-19%252Fpatrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault%26usg%3DAFQjCNGlLwjtQ91icas2c4AamPkjzjVAOA

Apparently the rape kit showed no evidence of Patrick Kane.

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

Absence of DNA evidence does not prove absence of a crime. Conversely, presence of DNA does not prove commission of a crime. One of the most fascinating aspects of the trial I sat on was sitting through the DNA evidence "training" by the lab tech who testified. It is so much more complicated and involved than television would have you believe...

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Looks like Kane's accuser is gonna have a some explaining to do.

Just because they didn't find his dna doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

http://mobile.sportingnews.com/article/4655746-patrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault?modid=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D10%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dno%2520dna%2520of%2520patrick%2520kane%2520in%2520victim%26ved%3D0CDwQFjAJahUKEwiYrN3p2ITIAhUG1B4KHQiAC4Q%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sportingnews.com%252Fnhl%252Fstory%252F2015-09-19%252Fpatrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault%26usg%3DAFQjCNGlLwjtQ91icas2c4AamPkjzjVAOA&&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D10%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dno%2520dna%2520of%2520patrick%2520kane%2520in%2520victim%26ved%3D0CDwQFjAJahUKEwiYrN3p2ITIAhUG1B4KHQiAC4Q%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sportingnews.com%252Fnhl%252Fstory%252F2015-09-19%252Fpatrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault%26usg%3DAFQjCNGlLwjtQ91icas2c4AamPkjzjVAOA

Apparently the rape kit showed no evidence of Patrick Kane.

This article gives reports that there was Kane's DNA beneath the woman's fingernails and on her shoulders which sounds like a struggle to me, but the article suggested that could have come from casual contact.

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2015/09/19/dna-test-results-spur-questions-in-kane-case/

[Buppy 1,720]

Will be funny to see Kane's internet supporters switch lines from "It was consensual!" to "It never happened!".

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

Absence of DNA evidence does not prove absence of a crime. Conversely, presence of DNA does not prove commission of a crime. One of the most fascinating aspects of the trial I sat on was sitting through the DNA evidence "training" by the lab tech who testified. It is so much more complicated and involved than television would have you believe...

True, but in a rape case it is very difficult to prove anything without DNA or other evidence from the presumed victim. And if there is no other evidence, nobody will ever know what actually happened.

[LAWings 160]

Indeed.

This may evolve into a 'he said - she said' situation.

However Kane's DNA was found under the alleged victim's fingernails which might suggest a struggle took place, or possibly aggressive 'foreplay'.

Or, as it has been noted, she hovered over Kane for several hours at the club, repulsing other girls who got close, witness reports state she was going home with him as was her agressive intention. Spending several hours in a club, then ride home, it could have easily happened there.

[ami 273]

http://mobile.sportingnews.com/article/4655746-patrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault?modid=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D10%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dno%2520dna%2520of%2520patrick%2520kane%2520in%2520victim%26ved%3D0CDwQFjAJahUKEwiYrN3p2ITIAhUG1B4KHQiAC4Q%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sportingnews.com%252Fnhl%252Fstory%252F2015-09-19%252Fpatrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault%26usg%3DAFQjCNGlLwjtQ91icas2c4AamPkjzjVAOA&&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D10%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dno%2520dna%2520of%2520patrick%2520kane%2520in%2520victim%26ved%3D0CDwQFjAJahUKEwiYrN3p2ITIAhUG1B4KHQiAC4Q%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sportingnews.com%252Fnhl%252Fstory%252F2015-09-19%252Fpatrick-kane-rape-case-chicago-blackhawks-nhl-dna-results-sexual-assault%26usg%3DAFQjCNGlLwjtQ91icas2c4AamPkjzjVAOA

Apparently the rape kit showed no evidence of Patrick Kane.

This apparently means our Patric boy couldn't finish (drunk as usual), but he tried hard - his DNA was found under her fingernails and on her shoulders.

[Ally 448]

Or, as it has been noted, she hovered over Kane for several hours at the club, repulsing other girls who got close, witness reports state she was going home with him as was her agressive intention. Spending several hours in a club, then ride home, it could have easily happened there.

Wow. A bartender mentioned that a woman he couldn't identify as the victim was hanging around Kane that night. Please don't change the story to support a bias.

[LAWings 160]

Wow. A bartender mentioned that a woman he couldn't identify as the victim was hanging around Kane that night. Please don't change the story to support a bias.

Unfortunately, there is no official 'story' to go by at the moment. As such, our biases will play a factor in these discussions until all the facts are presented to the grand jury. Until then this is all we can go by as our biases both result in a different version of 'the story'.

Edited September 22, 2015 by LAWings

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

A story I read was that it was the victim's friend who was hanging on Kane and insisted on going home with him, the victim went along to look out for her drunk friend.

We don't know what happened. What we do know is that we have an alleged victim who deserves to be taken seriously.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Unfortunately, there is no official 'story' to go by at the moment. As such, our biases will play a factor in these discussions until all the facts are presented to the grand jury. Until then this is all we can go by as our biases both result in a different version of 'the story'.

I'm not trying to call you out personally on this, but don't you think that attitude is messed up given the circumstance?

[LAWings 160]

I'm not trying to call you out personally on this, but don't you think that attitude is messed up given the circumstance?

What? I took the position that no one knows what the facts are, and our personal bias will in the meantime fill in the blanks as to what we 'think' happened. That is called having an open mind before the actual trial starts where they present the facts.

It seems that you have already assumed Kane is guilty, and that anything anyone says contrary is messed up to you. That, my friend is your bias, and exactly what I am referring to.

[kipwinger 8,518]

What? I took the position that no one knows what the facts are, and our personal bias will in the meantime fill in the blanks as to what we 'think' happened. That is called having an open mind before the actual trial starts where they present the facts.

It seems that you have already assumed Kane is guilty, and that anything anyone says contrary is messed up to you. That, my friend is your bias, and exactly what I am referring to.

Any more messed up than thinking that a woman who reported a crime is a money hungry liar (as quite a few around here have not so subtly insinuated)?

This woman has done NOTHING to have her character called into question. She reported an alleged crime, and obeyed the directives of the legal system thereafter.

What should she have done differently in order to be taken seriously?

Not talked to the media...oh wait, she didn't.

Reported the crime immediately...oh wait, she did.

Refuse to settle the case out of court...Yep, did that too.

Apparently, if you're a woman (and you want to be taken seriously when reporting a sexual crime), you better have never been drunk or horny in your life because god knows you can't be raped if you made out with a guy in a bar earlier in the night.

This is shameful. What if you reported a stolen car and everyone assumed you were lying in order to defraud the insurance company? Oh, that's right, it woudn't happen because nobody is insane enough to assume that kind of thing regularly occurs. Unless you're a woman, and you report a rape...then you're obviously weaving a nefarious web of deceit.

The most obnoxious thing about this is that nobody actually believe the b.s. they're spewing.

If your daughter, or sister, or girlfriend, or wife, or mother reported an alleged sexual assualt, nobody here would think "well she was hitting on that guy at the bar, so I've got to consider the possibility that maybe she just wants his money".

Nobody. Would. Think. That.

Edited September 22, 2015 by kipwinger