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frankgrimes

Kings Insider: Kopitar contract-extension not even close

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http://lakingsinsider.com/2015/09/01/lombardi-kings-kopitar-not-close-in-talks/


The Kings and Kopitar are are “not even in the ballpark” in their discussions, Kings General Manager Dean Lombardi told LA Kings Insider over email when asked whether the two sides were “close” to reaching an agreement.

It also (inevitably) links Kopitar’s and Stamkos’ contract negotiations to the eight-year, $84-million contracts signed by Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane in the summer of 2014.

WTF Lombardi one if not the best GM in hockey playing hardball with his star-center ? Does he want to get fired or what? I mean, Kopitar has all the leverage in the world if the Kings don't pay him someone else will it's that simple (same in the Stamkos case). Kopitar may not be as good as Toews but he is extremely close so something like 8 years 82 million full NMC should do the trick. Is it a lot of money ? Yes but this is an elite-center who teams would break the bank for if he became available. Losing him would mean minus 70+ points for the Kings and their offense really isn't as good as their defense. I'm also sure what Lombardi tried to do with Richards' contract doesn't exactly scream confidence in contract talks.

Like I said he is an awesome GM but he is playing hardball with the wrong guy here, Kopitar, Doughty and Quick aren't players to play hardball with. Sure he can ask for a hometown discount but Kopitar would be stupid to accept one and sign for less than he is worth. To be honest I'm really shocked that neither Stammer nor Kopitar have been extended yet, when everyone knows they are going to get paid it's just a matter of by whom.

But hey as a Wings fan keep it up Lombardi I'm sure the best owner in all of hockey is more than prepared to sign Kopitar to Toews' like money, so from a purely egoistic standpoint I'm loving it.

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Frank, you always suggest that these franchise players are worth any amount of money, and they should be given a blank check, never taking any sort of hometown discount. I disagree. I believe they should take somewhat of a moderate discount to help out the team that has already given them so much.

You believe Kopitar can make $10-10.5M on the open market? So do I. But why not take a slight discount (something around $7.5-8.5M X 8 years) with a team that will continue to be a competitor for years to come, increasing your chance at another Cup or two? After all, that is every players ultimate goal, is it not? Hockey is a team game and players that put themselves above the team, are usually the players that lose out in the end (on Championships). Both Toews and Kane already have 3 Stanley Cups each, so they're probably not too worried about when they'll win their next one. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Hawks don't win another Cup now that those two ginormous contracts kick in this season. $21M is a ridiculous amount of money being paid to only two players, taking up 30% of the teams salary cap.

I believe the Red Wings do it right. They take care of their players and treat ever single one of them with respect. The players know this, and are willing to take discounts to increase the chances of bringing home a Stanley Cup. Many players have done it in the past, and I believe many more will continue to do it in the future. People are worried that Abdelkader will bolt after this season over a couple million dollars that he will inevitably leave on the table this summer? Won't happen. He will take a discount to stay in the best run organization in all of hockey (sports). Of course it doesn't hurt that he is a Michigan native and spent his entire career there, but I believe the same would hold true if he were a Minnesoda native as well. Players that play in Detroit, for the most part want to stay in Detroit.

Anyway, that was slightly off topic... Regardless, I believe the Kings and Kopitar will come to an agreement before next summer and he will remain in Los Angeles for years to come. Same goes for Stamkos in Tampa. Even if one or both did happen to become available, there is no way Holland would be will to pay either of them what they will likely get on the open market. And I'm quite okay with that. As much as I would love to have either of these guys in red and white, I would hate to lose a handful of guys for one. I know many will disagree, but that's my take on it...

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Yes Frank, we all know your anti home town discount stance. EVERY contract negotiation that takes place you talk about it.

Also, you realize that in a cap system, the more money that guys like Stamkos, Toes, Kopitar etc. take, the less that goes to the guys that you call "the hero's of hockey".

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One of my favorite non-Wings in the league. I'd absolutely love to have him here, but considering how much he'll command...

Los Angeles absolutely has to get this done. With all of the off-ice issues recently, they need a positive. Little to no depth down the middle for the Kings, either.

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One of my favorite non-Wings in the league. I'd absolutely love to have him here, but considering how much he'll command...

Los Angeles absolutely has to get this done. With all of the off-ice issues recently, they need a positive. Little to no depth down the middle for the Kings, either.

I think we could afford it to. We only have 3 major RFA's (DD, Mrazek, Sheahan), and potentially we have Helm, Abby, Richards, Miller, Cleary, Andersson, and Quincey coming off the books (about 15million). If Mrazek proves he can be the guy, we also always have trading Howard option as well, would would clear another 5.5 million.

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I think we could afford it to. We only have 3 major RFA's (DD, Mrazek, Sheahan), and potentially we have Helm, Abby, Richards, Miller, Cleary, Andersson, and Quincey coming off the books (about 15million). If Mrazek proves he can be the guy, we also always have trading Howard option as well, would would clear another 5.5 million.

Honestly, I think that between the raises the RFA's receive, plus the cap hit for the returning UFA's, there won't be much room. Of course, that depends on how much of a raise you think certain guys will gets, but even at some conservative estimates, I doubt Detroit has the cap space. Dropping Howard's 5.2M would help, for sure, but I think the number Kopitar would be looking for would be too much.

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Honestly, I think that between the raises the RFA's receive, plus the cap hit for the returning UFA's, there won't be much room. Of course, that depends on how much of a raise you think certain guys will gets, but even at some conservative estimates, I doubt Detroit has the cap space. Dropping Howard's 5.2M would help, for sure, but I think the number Kopitar would be looking for would be too much.

Oh for sure, if you want a guy like Kopitar I think you are saying goodbye to all those UFS's.

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Oh for sure, if you want a guy like Kopitar I think you are saying goodbye to all those UFS's.

No doubt, which is near impossible, since they've got seven forwards (including Mule) signed for next season. Of the UFA's you mentioned, I could see Abdelkader, Helm and Miller returning. You throw in the RFA forwards (Sheahan, Pulks and Ferraro) and that gives you (potentially) 13 forwards. If they let Helm go, it's probably because Larkin is good enough to jump into the lineup. I don't see Larkin taking Miller's spot - I'm guessing they'll want him in the top-nine.

If it were the year Datsyuk's deal ended, I'd bet on Detroit as one of the front-runners for Kopitar.

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No doubt, which is near impossible, since they've got seven forwards (including Mule) signed for next season. Of the UFA's you mentioned, I could see Abdelkader, Helm and Miller returning. You throw in the RFA forwards (Sheahan, Pulks and Ferraro) and that gives you (potentially) 13 forwards. If they let Helm go, it's probably because Larkin is good enough to jump into the lineup. I don't see Larkin taking Miller's spot - I'm guessing they'll want him in the top-nine.

If it were the year Datsyuk's deal ended, I'd bet on Detroit as one of the front-runners for Kopitar.

For the record, I don't see it happening either, but they could easily do it. Their lines would look like this:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen

Kopitar/Tatar/Nyquist

Sheahan/Pulkkinen/Jurco

Glendenning/Ferrero/Callahan

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For the record, I don't see it happening either, but they could easily do it. Their lines would look like this:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen

Kopitar/Tatar/Nyquist

Sheahan/Pulkkinen/Jurco

Glendenning/Ferrero/Callahan

OK, well... highly improbable*.

Just out of curiosity, what do you see Kopitar, Sheahan and Pulkkinen making in this scenario? What about DeKeyser and Mrazek's raises? Even here, Detroit's going to be tight on cap space, IMO.

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OK, well... highly improbable*.

Just out of curiosity, what do you see Kopitar, Sheahan and Pulkkinen making in this scenario? What about DeKeyser and Mrazek's raises? Even here, Detroit's going to be tight on cap space, IMO.

Lets just agree on highly improbable. I dont feel like calculating all of that.

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Also, you realize that in a cap system, the more money that guys like Stamkos, Toes, Kopitar etc. take, the less that goes to the guys that you call "the hero's of hockey".

If I remember correctly some of the lower paid players were against the cap because they thought of situations like this. The top stars get their money but the end guys get less.

Anyway Kopitar will get paid, but I do wonder if he will heed Glencross's warning. After all at the end of the day this is a buisness

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If I remember correctly some of the lower paid players were against the cap because they thought of situations like this. The top stars get their money but the end guys get less.

Anyway Kopitar will get paid, but I do wonder if he will heed Glencross's warning. After all at the end of the day this is a buisness

which is exactly one of the points why home town discounts are happening less and less. it's not the job of players nor their agents to figure out the cap that's the job of a GM.

Kopitar would be absolutely nuts to accept anything under 8 years and at least 10 mill aav. The cap system is a flawed one and it needs to go a luxury tax one would work much better.

yeah it's a dream but if negotiations are going south I'm sure the Red Bird would fly to LA and make him a can't refuse offer. And one thing is for sure all of a sudden the next ufa class would become awesome over night.

I believe the Red Wings do it right. They take care of their players and treat ever single one of them with respect. The players know this, and are willing to take discounts to increase the chances of bringing home a Stanley Cup. Many players have done it in the past, and I believe many more will continue to do it in the future. People are worried that Abdelkader will bolt after this season over a couple million dollars that he will inevitably leave on the table this summer? Won't happen. He will take a discount to stay in the best run organization in all of hockey (sports). Of course it doesn't hurt that he is a Michigan native and spent his entire career there, but I believe the same would hold true if he were a Minnesoda native as well. Players that play in Detroit, for the most part want to stay in Detroit.

Anyway, that was slightly off topic... Regardless, I believe the Kings and Kopitar will come to an agreement before next summer and he will remain in Los Angeles for years to come. Same goes for Stamkos in Tampa. Even if one or both did happen to become available, there is no way Holland would be will to pay either of them what they will likely get on the open market. And I'm quite okay with that. As much as I would love to have either of these guys in red and white, I would hate to lose a handful of guys for one. I know many will disagree, but that's my take on it...

Well part of the problem of not getting the top-guys wanting to sign here is the notion that Kenny is a bit of an underpayer and still expects some sort of discounts, which - in most cases - just won't happen. Abdelkadere is a very interesting case but 4 million per doesn't seem outlandish to me and I think we all should be very happy if we could extend him for that aav.

Edited by frankgrimes

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which is exactly one of the points why home town discounts are happening less and less. it's not the job of players nor their agents to figure out the cap that's the job of a GM.

Kopitar would be absolutely nuts to accept anything under 8 years and at least 10 mill aav. The cap system is a flawed one and it needs to go a luxury tax one would work much better.

yeah it's a dream but if negotiations are going south I'm sure the Red Bird would fly to LA and make him a can't refuse offer. And one thing is for sure all of a sudden the next ufa class would become awesome over night.

Well part of the problem of not getting the top-guys wanting to sign here is the notion that Kenny is a bit of an underpayer and still expects some sort of discounts, which - in most cases - just won't happen. Abdelkadere is a very interesting case but 4 million per doesn't seem outlandish to me and I think we all should be very happy if we could extend him for that aav.

Why are you still still trying to sell that narrative. Alfreddson, Weiss, Richards, Green. I think its pretty clear top UFA's are willing to come here. Before someone misses the point of my post and says Weiss sucked while here, please understand the argument is not how the guys listed turned out, it's what their stock was prior to signing here.

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Why are you still still trying to sell that narrative. Alfreddson, Weiss, Richards, Green. I think its pretty clear top UFA's are willing to come here. Before someone misses the point of my post and says Weiss sucked while here, please understand the argument is not how the guys listed turned out, it's what their stock was prior to signing here.

I'm not getting Into this discussion again we all know the players which were considered top.

this year had no clear cut top UFA but I still would have preferred Franson over Green. Richards at this point in his career is a very valuable third line center but that's about it and I like the signing.

Kopitar would be incredible so I hope Lombardi continues to play hard ball till his agent is pissed of and Kopitar refuses to re-sign.

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I'm not getting Into this discussion again we all know the players which were considered top.

this year had no clear cut top UFA but I still would have preferred Franson over Green. Richards at this point in his career is a very valuable third line center but that's about it and I like the signing.

Kopitar would be incredible so I hope Lombardi continues to play hard ball till his agent is pissed of and Kopitar refuses to re-sign.

Right Frank, I am the one creating a narrative.

I agree that Kopitar is another level of free agent, but those types of players don't become UFA's anymore. As far as free agents go now a days, all the guys I named were considered top free agents in their respective UFA years. On July 1st, 2015 tsn had Mike Green ranked as their #1 UFA (I cant remember what they had Richards). YOU wanting Franson over Green doesn't change anything.

Back in in 2013 Weiss was ranked the #4 UFA skater http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/free-agents/2013-top-30-nhl-free-agents/

Just look at this list, all these guys are not "top NHL players" but they were the top UFA's....two different things.

Richards and Alfie may have been past their prime, but you cant deny they are big names.

I 100% admit, that these guys being top UFA's is a reflection of how bad the UFA classes have gotten, but based on what is available they are top UFA's. In 2014, Paul Stasny was considered the #1 guy, that right there speaks volumes.

Just stop with the "nobody wants to come here" bit. Something doesn't become true just because you say it over and over and over and over again. You're basing this off of the fact that you were not happy with Holland's moves in the summer of 2014 and its getting old.

Alfredsson, Weiss and Richards cannot be in any way considered top free agents. Green is an interesting one, but also probably not everyone's first choice.

You're mixing up "Top players" with "Tope UFA's".....see other post.

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Kopitar will not leave the Kings. Just like Stamkos won't leave Tampa. Both teams are good, and will give those guys what they're worth. Pretending that Kopitar will leave is basically hockey porn. It's a nice fantasy, but it ain't real folks.

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Kopitar will not leave the Kings. Just like Stamkos won't leave Tampa. Both teams are good, and will give those guys what they're worth. Pretending that Kopitar will leave is basically hockey porn. It's a nice fantasy, but it ain't real folks.

What are you talking about? They're both going to sign with the Leafs.

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What are you talking about? They're both going to sign with the Leafs.

You never know. Throwing oodles and oodles of money at someone can change their minds pretty quickly. Easy to stand on virtue until they put that offer on the table.

Fortunately for Kopitar and Stamkos they'll get locked up LONG before that's ever an issue.

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Right Frank, I am the one creating a narrative.

I agree that Kopitar is another level of free agent, but those types of players don't become UFA's anymore. As far as free agents go now a days, all the guys I named were considered top free agents in their respective UFA years. On July 1st, 2015 tsn had Mike Green ranked as their #1 UFA (I cant remember what they had Richards). YOU wanting Franson over Green doesn't change anything.

Back in in 2013 Weiss was ranked the #4 UFA skater http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/free-agents/2013-top-30-nhl-free-agents/

Just look at this list, all these guys are not "top NHL players" but they were the top UFA's....two different things.

Richards and Alfie may have been past their prime, but you cant deny they are big names.

I 100% admit, that these guys being top UFA's is a reflection of how bad the UFA classes have gotten, but based on what is available they are top UFA's. In 2014, Paul Stasny was considered the #1 guy, that right there speaks volumes.

Just stop with the "nobody wants to come here" bit. Something doesn't become true just because you say it over and over and over and over again. You're basing this off of the fact that you were not happy with Holland's moves in the summer of 2014 and its getting old.

You're mixing up "Top players" with "Tope UFA's".....see other post.

See and that's why I've said the Wings would be one of the teams flying to LA and offering him a truck full with money.

TSN had a long discussion whether it be Green or Franson in the weakest ufa class I can remember. I mean neither of the 2 played anything close to be awarded such praises which like you said speaks volumes about July 1 this year. Weiss came back after spending months and months on IR the top ufa that year was Clarkson, last year obviously Niskanen.

I can't find anything about Richards but like many people said it's a one year signing with absolutely no risk so I really like it.

anyhow yes Stammer, Kopitar will sign extensions I just don't believe going public with this stuff is the right thing to do. Look at the captain he didn't even comment on it and it's only his 4 year as a GM.

Edited by frankgrimes

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