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HockeytownRules19

Roster Moves by the Wings

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Interesting article by the WiiM folks regarding Glendenning's place (or possible lack of place) in the line up.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/10/5/9453943/is-luke-glendening-the-odd-man-out-red-wings

Haha. WiiM just hate Glendening. All our lines are messed up today in practice - it's quite a stretch to take it where they did. I thought Glen had proved all his haters wrong - he's a great 4C. If I were to read anything Glen's placement in practice I would say that it would be a vote of confidence to say that he can fill the spot higher in the lineup.

Congrats to Larkin! I was on the side of sending him down (partly due to looking at Jurco's situation), but I changed my position the last few preseason games. For one, he looked very very good. But also, this is a unique opportunity with Datsyuk out. He can just fill in for that time while magic man's out and it doesn't hurt his development to get a taste at the beginning. Or he runs away with it and we make room for him when Dats is back.

Really surprised that he's going to be on the 1st line with Z and Abby, though. Don't know if he's ready to face the top NHL competition right of the bat. But we'll see. I do like that it enables us to keep the rest of the lines more in tact. That's one hope I have with Blashill: that he keeps lines together more than Babcock's constant juggling.

There was a recent interview with Larkin where he was asked about the preseason and he goes to how wants to be on the level of Crosby, Toews, etc. as if he was skipping all the regular considerations for his own very high goals for himself. Does seem to be a man on a mission.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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I'll will be pissed if Andersson is in the lineup ahead of Jurco or Pulkkinen. I know, one is a "center" and the other two are wingers, but we have more than enough viable options down the middle that Andersson doesn't need to be in that 4th line center spot...

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I think leaving Glendening on the outside looking in is a pretty big stretch. If anything, I think Glendening being on the 3rd line is indicative of Blash having a higher opinion of him than the guys used on the 4th. It's not like he's Pulkkinen and suited for a scoring line - he's the prototypical 4C. I can't imagine him being left out of the lineup for Andersson or Ferraro.

I'll will be pissed if Andersson is in the lineup ahead of Jurco or Pulkkinen. I know, one is a "center" and the other two are wingers, but we have more than enough viable options down the middle that Andersson doesn't need to be in that 4th line center spot...


A by-product of having Larkin make the team though, right? It likely pushes one of those guys out. Otherwise, we're looking at Jurco or Pulkkinen on the fourth line next to Miller-Glendening.

Zetterberg-Larkin-Abdelkader

Tatar-Richards-Nyquist
Jurco/Pulks-Sheahan-Franzen
Miller-Glendening-Ferraro/Cleary/Andersson

With Kindl on the IR, they're carrying 15 forwards and 6 defensemen.

Edited by Jesusberg

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I think leaving Glendening on the outside looking in is a pretty big stretch. If anything, I think Glendening being on the 3rd line is indicative of Blash having a higher opinion of him than the guys used on the 4th. It's not like he's Pulkkinen and suited for a scoring line - he's the prototypical 4C. I can't imagine him being left out of the lineup for Andersson or Ferraro.

A by-product of having Larkin make the team though, right? It likely pushes one of those guys out. Otherwise, we're looking at Jurco or Pulkkinen on the fourth line next to Miller-Glendening.

Zetterberg-Larkin-Abdelkader

Tatar-Richards-Nyquist

Jurco/Pulks-Sheahan-Franzen

Miller-Glendening-Ferraro/Cleary/Andersson

With Kindl on the IR, they're carrying 15 forwards and 6 defensemen.

Had totally forgotten about Ferraro when I made the lineup I'd like to see if larkin sticks around and produces when pavel returns

Can't recall having this many forwards before ... I personally wanna see Franzen on the 4th line with some ppl opportunities , having him and his shot against other teams bottom pairs/lines will only help our team and have a guy on a 4th with 15-20 goals if healthy

Jurco and pulkkinen are young with lots of skill and need to play lots of minutes

Jurco sheahan pulkkinen line could be one of the best 3rd lines in the league .... Now if datsyuk returns and larkin sticks around than richards and jurco would each drop down a line

Right now I'd personally get rid of cleary Andersson and probably miller

We have Ferraro/glendening/helm/Franzen/jurco on the 4th line as possible options with a healthy lineup and larking staying and Callahan and nosek etc.. In Grand Rapids

Sorry for rambling on guys. .... Anyways Before the deadline I see cleary/Andersson going ... We gave cleary his contract but there's no room for him

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Kindl to IR -- So there's your 23-man opening day roster: 15 Forwards, 6 Defensemen, and our Goalie Tandem.

PLAYERS ASSIGNED ON 10/5/15

22 Andy Miele C L 5-7 169 Grosse Pointe Woods, Michigan 4/15/88 Signed, 7/2/14
23 Brian Lashoff D L 6-3 221 Albany, New York 7/16/90 Signed, 10/1/08
57 Mitch Callahan RW R 6-0 196 Whittier, California 8/17/91 2009 Draft (6/180)

PLAYER PLACED ON INJURED RESERVE

4 Jakub Kindl D L 6-3 199 Sumperk, Czech Republic 2/10/87 2005 Draft (1/19)

ACTIVE DETROIT RED WINGS ROSTER - 23 PLAYERS

# FORWARDS (15) POS S HGT WGT BIRTHPLACE BIRTHDATE ACQUIRED
8 Justin Abdelkader LW L 6-2 218 Muskegon, Michigan 2/25/87 2005 Draft (2/42)
11 Daniel Cleary RW L 6-1 205 Carbonear, Newfoundland 12/18/78 Signed, 10/4/05
14 Gustav Nyquist RW L 5-11 183 Halmstad, Sweden 9/1/89 2008 Draft (4/121)
15 Riley Sheahan C L 6-3 222 St. Catharines, Ontario 12/7/91 2010 Draft (1/21)
17 Brad Richards C L 6-0 199 Murray Harbour, P.E.I. 5/2/80 Signed, 7/1/15
18 Joakim Andersson C L 6-2 211 Munkedal, Sweden 2/5/89 2007 Draft (3/88)
20 Drew Miller LW L 6-2 180 Dover, New Jersey 2/17/84 Waivers, 11/11/09
21 Tomas Tatar LW L 5-10 185 Ilava, Slovakia 12/1/90 2009 Draft (2/60)
26 Tomas Jurco RW L 6-1 203 Kosice, Slovakia 12/28/92 2011 Draft (2/35)
29 Landon Ferraro C L 6-0 186 Trail, British Columbia 8/8/91 2009 Draft (2/32)
40 Henrik Zetterberg C L 6-0 195 Njurunda, Sweden 10/9/80 1999 Draft (7/210)
41 Luke Glendening C R 5-11 194 Grand Rapids, Michigan 4/28/89 Signed, 7/5/13
56 Teemu Pulkkinen RW R 5-11 183 Vantaa, Finland 1/2/92 2010 Draft (4/111)
71 Dylan Larkin C L 6-1 190 Waterford, Michigan 7/30/96 2014 Draft (1/15)
93 Johan Franzen RW L 6-4 232 Vetlanda, Sweden 12/23/79 2004 Draft (3/97)

# DEFENSEMEN (6) POS S HGT WGT BIRTHPLACE BIRTHDATE ACQUIRED
2 Brendan Smith D L 6-2 211 Mimico, Ontario 2/8/89 2007 Draft (1/27)
25 Mike Green D R 6-1 207 Calgary, Alberta 10/12/85 Signed, 7/1/15
27 Kyle Quincey D L 6-2 216 Kitchener, Ontario 8/12/85 Trade, 2/21/12
52 Jonathan Ericsson D L 6-4 220 Karlskrona, Sweden 3/2/84 2002 Draft (9/291)
55 Niklas Kronwall D L 6-0 194 Stockholm, Sweden 1/12/81 2000 Draft (1/29)
61 Xavier Ouellet D L 6-1 200 Bayonne, France 7/29/93 2011 Draft (2/48)

# GOALIES (2) POS C HGT WGT BIRTHPLACE BIRTHDATE ACQUIRED
34 Petr Mrazek G L 6-2 183 Ostrava, Czech Republic 2/14/92 2010 Draft (5/141)
35 Jimmy Howard G L 6-1 218 Syracuse, New York 3/26/84 2003 Draft (2/64)

# Injured Reserve (5)

POS S HGT WGT BIRTHPLACE BIRTHDATE ACQUIRED
4 Jakub Kindl D L 6-3 199 Sumperk, Czech Republic 2/10/87 2005 Draft (1/19)
13 Pavel Datsyuk C L 5-11 194 Sverdlovsk, Russia 7/20/78 1998 Draft (6/171)

43 Darren Helm C L 6-0 196 St. Andrews, Manitoba 1/21/87 2005 Draft (5/132)
47 Alexey Marchenko D R 6-3 210 Moscow, Russia 1/2/92 2011 Draft (7/205)
65 Danny DeKeyser D L 6-3 191 Detroit, Michigan 3/7/90 Signed, 3/29/15

Edited by e_prime

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Surprised by the Larkin move. Interesting. He'll get his shot and sent down when Dats or Helm returns in all likelihood.

Hope he makes the most of it. He must be walking on clouds right now, quite an accomplishment.

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I think the "right shooting defenseman" thing has tended to get overblown over the last three years. Nothing about being a right shooter makes a guy better, or more deserving of a roster spot. It's a characteristic that, all things being equal, you'd like to have a balance of.

For instance, Marchenko and Smith were a better pair last year than Smith and Zidlicky. In one instance having a righty worked, and in the other it didn't make much difference. If forced to choose, I would rather have seen Smith with another lefty (Ouellet?), or Zidlicky with another righty (Marchenko?), rather than those two together.

The lefty righty thing is based on all other variables being equal. If you're trying to find a partner for a lefty, and you've got two good guys with similar skillsets, then pick a righty. But if one guy is a mismatch in every other way, but is right handed, don't give him the spot based primarily on that.

Just my 2 cents.

When you consider that over 70% of NHL Defencemen shoot left handed, It certainly helps to have a Right Handed shot when it comes to bubble players in the pre-season and/or free agents in the off-season. No, you aren't cutting Nick Kronwall to make room for Nick Jensen, but the theory of having an equal number of each stems from basic (positional) fundamentals and not just because it's simply good to have a balance of both.

Ideally, you would like to have 3 LH and 3 RH Defencemen at all times - because it's much harder to play the opposite side as a Dman than it is as a Forward...Alot of Forwards actually prefer to play their off-wing because its beneficial in most scoring area's around the slot.

As a left handed Defenceman playing the right side, it is much more difficult to retrieve the puck off the boards and move it quickly when sustaining offensive zone time... At NHL level, retrieving pucks on your backhand at the blueline to keep the zone (especially at even strength) typically gives the opposing team too much time to make a play. It's also harder to "play catch" and set up your offence at the top of the zone if both Dmen are Left Handed, and opposing teams will key in on this. Not to get too crazy, because we are talking about the best in the world here... but it's also easier to pivot, and force opposing forwards to the outside when you are playing the correct side.

On the PP, it's also beneficial to have both shots out there (think Lidstrom, Rafalski) - because once possession is established after the faceoff is won, the Defencemen can "switch" and create two shooting lanes as opposed to just one. Doing that, also creates room down low because the shorthanded team has to send 2 guys high...

It's not really overblown, and although you aren't arbitrarily a better player based on the fact you shoot right handed, you can certainly put your team in a position to be better. This is why they command more money every off-season, and more demand every trade deadline then left handed shooting players.

Edited by WingedWheel91

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When you consider that over 70% of NHL Defencemen shoot left handed, It certainly helps to have a Right Handed shot when it comes to bubble players in the pre-season and/or free agents in the off-season. No, you aren't cutting Nick Kronwall to make room for Nick Jensen, but the theory of having an equal number of each stems from basic (positional) fundamentals and not just because it's simply good to have a balance of both.

Ideally, you would like to have 3 LH and 3 RH Defencemen at all times - because it's much harder to play the opposite side as a Dman than it is as a Forward...Alot of Forwards actually prefer to play their off-wing because its beneficial in most scoring area's around the slot.

As a left handed Defenceman playing the right side, it is much more difficult to retrieve the puck off the boards and move it quickly when sustaining offensive zone time... At NHL level, retrieving pucks on your backhand at the blueline to keep the zone (especially at even strength) typically gives the opposing team too much time to make a play. It's also harder to "play catch" and set up your offence at the top of the zone if both Dmen are Left Handed, and opposing teams will key in on this. Not to get too crazy, because we are talking about the best in the world here... but it's also easier to pivot, and force opposing forwards to the outside when you are playing the correct side.

On the PP, it's also beneficial to have both shots out there (think Lidstrom, Rafalski) - because once possession is established after the faceoff is won, the Defencemen can "switch" and create two shooting lanes as opposed to just one. Doing that, also creates room down low because the shorthanded team has to send 2 guys high...

It's not really overblown, and although you aren't arbitrarily a better player based on the fact you shoot right handed, you can certainly put your team in a position to be better. This is why they command more money every off-season, and more demand every trade deadline then left handed shooting players.

I know.

None of that was my point though. My point was that because Detroit hasn't had a right shooter in a while, and they REALLY wanted one, it's all anybody could talk about. It became a paradigm through which fans viewed our defense and as a result many have begun to fetishize the idea of right shooting defensemen. Often times, it's used as a sort of trump card when people debate players. "Well I know player X is better, but player Y shoots right". Which is absurd...of course.

That was my whole point.

Edited by kipwinger

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I know.

None of that was my point though. My point was that because Detroit hasn't had a right shooter in a while, and they REALLY wanted one, it's all anybody could talk about. It became a paradigm through which fans viewed our defense and as a result many have begun to fetishize the idea of right shooting defensemen. Often times, it's used as a sort of trump card when people debate players. "Well I know player X is better, but player Y shoots right". Which is absurd...of course.

That was my whole point.

If you agree with all he said I don't get what the deal is. We did really want one. they are important. We did talk about it a lot because we wanted one and they're important. Since we want one and they're important when discussing players it gives the edge to the Righty. Haven't seen anyone make it the only consideration. What's the problem? Maybe just sick of hearing about it?

Our GM has definitely thought about it since we have drafted a lot of RH Dmen and the search that lead to Green.

As a side note, Green gave an interview recently where he said the Caps strategized around our lack of Righties. (I'm guessing that meant breakout along the boards on the side of the Dman on his off side). It's a weakness.

Anyway, we have Green. I think one of Marchenko or Jensen are destine for the 3rd pair next year (or late this year and the other will be 7th guy. 2 out of 6 would be a good ratio (or 3 out of 7)

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Regarding XO vs Jensen, my thought is that XO takes the spot because he plays more like DDK. Someone mentioned a bit back that Smith and Marchy worked, but Smith and Ziddy didn't. The way I look at it is, you have defensive defensemen (XO, DDK, Marchy) and offensive (Smith, Jensen, Ziddy). The idea is to try to have one offensive and one defensive per pairing, and one right and one left. While the offensive/defensive scale isn't always black or white, most players tend to lean towards one style or the other. Smith and Marchy worked because Marchy is defensive right, and Smith is offensive left. DDK being a defensive left is being replaced by XO who is also a defensive left.

Ideally, I would pair Kronwall with a righty, probably defense minded, pair Green with a lefty defensive (like DDK or Quincey) and Smith with a righty defensive (Marchy). Since Marchy is injured at the moment, XO plays because he fills the defensive role. If Smith gets hurt, I would put Jensen in his spot with XO.

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what I want to know is, why the f*** is Cleary on this roster still? We were told that Dan Cleary will not take a roster spot in Detroit. We were told he would not be here...so much for honoring his word to the fans. I got a feeling that Blashill had to negotiate with Holland in order to keep Larkin here. We all know Holland would never keep a 19 year old here. Ever. He probably told Blashill that he'd give him Larkin as but Cleary stays with him...take it or leave it.

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Again, for the umpteenth time... Cleary Is NOT Taking A Roster Spot From Any Of The Kids... He is simply holding down that 13th/14th/15th forward spot until Helm and / or Datsyuk is healthy. Would you prefer Mantha be up with the big club sitting every game? Cleary will be waived before Ferraro or even Andersson. Again, he is not harming this team in any way whatsoever...

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Again, for the umpteenth time... Cleary Is NOT Taking A Roster Spot From Any Of The Kids... He is simply holding down that 13th/14th/15th forward spot until Helm and / or Datsyuk is healthy. Would you prefer Mantha be up with the big club sitting every game? Cleary will be waived before Ferraro or even Andersson. Again, he is not harming this team in any way whatsoever...

Cleary's mere existence harms the team

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Again, for the umpteenth time... Cleary Is NOT Taking A Roster Spot From Any Of The Kids... He is simply holding down that 13th/14th/15th forward spot until Helm and / or Datsyuk is healthy. Would you prefer Mantha be up with the big club sitting every game? Cleary will be waived before Ferraro or even Andersson. Again, he is not harming this team in any way whatsoever...

The funny thing is that we already have enough forwards to fill all the lines and then some. It's going to be a challenge just to slot all those guys into the right spaces.Even then, barring a trade, we'll still have talented forwards that are going to have to sit EVEN BEFORE Dats and Helm get back ...and STILL people are worried about Cleary sitting in the pressbox. Sitting. Not playing. Sitting.

Hell, he's not even taking a roster spot from the youngsters in GR right now. So just give it a ******* rest.

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If you agree with all he said I don't get what the deal is. We did really want one. they are important. We did talk about it a lot because we wanted one and they're important. Since we want one and they're important when discussing players it gives the edge to the Righty. Haven't seen anyone make it the only consideration. What's the problem? Maybe just sick of hearing about it?

Our GM has definitely thought about it since we have drafted a lot of RH Dmen and the search that lead to Green.

As a side note, Green gave an interview recently where he said the Caps strategized around our lack of Righties. (I'm guessing that meant breakout along the boards on the side of the Dman on his off side). It's a weakness.

Anyway, we have Green. I think one of Marchenko or Jensen are destine for the 3rd pair next year (or late this year and the other will be 7th guy. 2 out of 6 would be a good ratio (or 3 out of 7)

There isn't a problem. I was just explaining that while righties are important, they aren't the be all and end all of defensive strategy, though you might think so given how they've been spoken about in Detroit for the last 3 years. That's all. I don't doubt that it's an important characteristic to have, but not to the point it's been described in by Red Wings fans and sports writers. I've heard people arguing in favor of really s***ty defensemen, based almost entirely on the fact that they were righties. Which is silly, but it has happened in the not too distant past.

That was all I was getting at. A s*** defenseman is a s*** defenseman, a good one a good one, regardless of their handedness. I really wasn't trying to get too in depth with it.

Edited by kipwinger

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e_prime, exactly, people really need to get over hating on Dan Cleary. I was a little shocked when I seen that he was once again re-signed, but he's here for one more season, and he will not hurt this team in anyway, so get the f*** over it...

But speaking of the crazy depth we have at forward, that's one of the biggest reasons I'm not a fan of Larkin making this team to start the season. We have way too many forwards and some that shouldn't be sitting, are going to do just that. I'd rather Jurco or Pulkkinen be in the lineup in Detroit and Larkin continue to develop in Grand Rapids for a season. Then when Richards is gone next season, that would be the perfect opportunity for Larkin to come in and take over as the 2nd line center...

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e_prime, exactly, people really need to get over hating on Dan Cleary. I was a little shocked when I seen that he was once again re-signed, but he's here for one more season, and he will not hurt this team in anyway, so get the f*** over it...

But speaking of the crazy depth we have at forward, that's one of the biggest reasons I'm not a fan of Larkin making this team to start the season. We have way too many forwards and some that shouldn't be sitting, are going to do just that. I'd rather Jurco or Pulkkinen be in the lineup in Detroit and Larkin continue to develop in Grand Rapids for a season. Then when Richards is gone next season, that would be the perfect opportunity for Larkin to come in and take over as the 2nd line center...

100% agree with this.

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Just real quick, I cannot believe that we didn't lose any of those waived players to anyone else. You guys told me all summer long that it wouldn't happen and you were right. I was wrong and I apologize... The players that remain that will most likely get waived (Cleary and Andersson) when we are 100% healthy, I really couldn't care if they were lost. I am so happy we didn't lose anyone! I thought Meile played very well and wonder if we'll see him in some spot injury duty at all?

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I'd rather Jurco or Pulkkinen be in the lineup in Detroit and Larkin continue to develop in Grand Rapids for a season. Then when Richards is gone next season, that would be the perfect opportunity for Larkin to come in and take over as the 2nd line center...

I too would like to see Pulkkinen and Jurco in the line up as much as possible so that we can get a true understanding of just what we have with them as players. I understand that completely.

On the other hand, I really like that Larkin made the team. The reason why I like this so much is just the simple fact that a 19 year old hasn't made the team out of training camp since Steve Yzerman. If nothing else, it signifies a glimmer of change in the way this team handles prospects. I don't forsee the team making hard choices to keep Larkin in the lineup. When Helm and/or Datsyuk are ready to come back and we need to send someone down, it's a non-issue because Larkin has waiver eligibility. I do want him to tear it up in the AHL, but a couple weeks up with the Wings isn't going to hurt his development nor is it shelving Pulkkinen and/or Jurco for an obscene amount of time.

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Miele is a great asset to have down in Grand Rapids, but he will never see an NHL game with the Red Wings. I'm glad he made it through the waiver wire, but it wouldn't have been a huge loss if he were claimed. Same goes for Lashoff in my opinion, and although Callahan wouldn't have been a huge loss either, he is the one I was the happiest to see cleared... Cleary and Andersson will both be waived at some point and both will likely go unclaimed as well, although I wouldn't shed any tears to see some desperate team pick up Andersson...

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e_prime, exactly, people really need to get over hating on Dan Cleary. I was a little shocked when I seen that he was once again re-signed, but he's here for one more season, and he will not hurt this team in anyway, so get the f*** over it...

But speaking of the crazy depth we have at forward, that's one of the biggest reasons I'm not a fan of Larkin making this team to start the season. We have way too many forwards and some that shouldn't be sitting, are going to do just that. I'd rather Jurco or Pulkkinen be in the lineup in Detroit and Larkin continue to develop in Grand Rapids for a season. Then when Richards is gone next season, that would be the perfect opportunity for Larkin to come in and take over as the 2nd line center...

You are bang on with your assessment of Dan Cleary... Intangibles are so often overlooked, and he doesn't hurt this team by signing a 1 year contract. No need for the up-roar.

However, Dylan Larkin.... the thing with Dylan Larkin.... is that he's probably already better than Jurco and/or Pulkinnen. Yes, there looks to be a seamless transition next year for Larkin to step in for Richards as our 2nd line Center, but he's already starting this year a our 1st line Center... I think our coaching staff senses something special here and why shouldn't they explore it?

Nothing wrong with having a deep team...

Edited by WingedWheel91

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Miele is a great asset to have down in Grand Rapids, but he will never see an NHL game with the Red Wings. I'm glad he made it through the waiver wire, but it wouldn't have been a huge loss if he were claimed. Same goes for Lashoff in my opinion, and although Callahan wouldn't have been a huge loss either, he is the one I was the happiest to see cleared... Cleary and Andersson will both be waived at some point and both will likely go unclaimed as well, although I wouldn't shed any tears to see some desperate team pick up Andersson...

Because Miele will never play a game in the nhl (detroit at least anyways) I was hoping he would get picked up so the kids would have more ice time in Grand Rapids

I agree clearly and Anderson won't be here much longer ... I'd also hope to see Miller go soon enough only because he's a ufa and I'd rather have ferraro's speed and age as the depth guy

I know keeping Larkin isn't what we normally do but I'm hoping he just dominates off the bat and never lets up ....datsyuk and zetterberg aren't getting any younger so having a kid come in and play a dominate 2 way game with his speed and "hopefully" 45-60 pts will only benefit us , where else would we get a Larkin on the trade market? Could make our team a lot better and give us our best shot at a cup in years

Now as for jurco I hope blash sees the potential of having a 3rd line of Sheahan jurco pulkkinen I can see all 3 potentially getting 15-20

Love mule in his prime but he's older and more injury prone , when he was drafted he was drafted as a checker right? Put him on the 4th with his shot against bottom pairs with glendening and helm when he returns and that's easily the best 4th line in the NHL

Datsyuk returns and Larkin dominates

Zetterberg Larkin abdelkader

Tatar datsyuk nyquist

Sheahan Richards pulkkinen

Jurco glendening helm

Extras

Franzen/Ferraro/Miller/Callahan

Now the only thing missing is someone big who can just knock guys around ....I'm obviously being biased but looking at that potential lineup all I Can think of is , who has a better overall 4 lines in the league?

Really excited for this season for the redwings

I had totally forgotten we had Richards so had to change the jurco Sheahan pulkkinen line I had in mind .... Damn were so deep this year

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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