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HockeytownRules19

Roster Moves by the Wings

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Except Chicago and Tampa have more talent offensively, which is why they made the Finals. When you lead the league in goals and when you have Tayes, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Sharp, you don't need a lot of big forwards.

I think it helps to have someone who can wear defenders down and make us tough to play against in a long series. A guy that can win some battles along the boards. I heard enough about the "team speed" crap a few years ago, before Boston kicked our asses. Speed by itself won't win. As Mr. Miyagi said, "First need balance". We need a more balanced lineup. I actually would keep Ferraro around for now. I think he plays a physical game. Not the biggest guy, but competes. He's more of a 4th liner than Jurco. Jurco has more skill and size, but didn't show me much last year.

Which team are you watching, the 2012 Red Wings? We've got as much, or more, offensive firepower as any team in the league. Any attempt to characterize this current team as unskilled, or offensively impotent is a load of malarkey. Our third line in tonights game is Sheahan, Nyquist, and Pulkkinen. The Babcock days are long gone, we are a skilled team again. Embrace it. Come on board for the big win.

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Which team are you watching, the 2012 Red Wings? We've got as much, or more, offensive firepower as any team in the league. Any attempt to characterize this current team as unskilled, or offensively impotent is a load of malarkey. Our third line in tonights game is Sheahan, Nyquist, and Pulkkinen. The Babcock days are long gone, we are a skilled team again. Embrace it. Come on board for the big win.

A few months ago, we couldn't score s*** when it mattered the most in the playoffs. That wasn't 2012. I was just talking about our comparison to last year's Tampa or Chicago. We didn't have their firepower. I think we can score regular season goals, but will our top guys disappear again in the playoffs? Long way to go until then, but it's a fair question based on the last several playoff exits.

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A few months ago, we couldn't score s*** when it mattered the most in the playoffs. That wasn't 2012. I was just talking about our comparison to last year's Tampa or Chicago. We didn't have their firepower. I think we can score regular season goals, but will our top guys disappear again in the playoffs? Long way to go until then, but it's a fair question based on the last several playoff exits.

Lol. You really think that's why we couldn't score? Because we didn't have the firepower? We had four 20 goal scorers. Our young guys have gotten a year better. We've added a rookie sensation, an elite offensive defenseman, and a skilled second line center. Oh, and we're healthier.

This isn't the same team that played Tampa a few months ago, and you know that as much as anybody.

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Athanasiou-Helm-Glendening.

That's a kick ass 4th line.

What worries me about that line, is I think it would do more damage to Athanasiou's development then good. I would much rather see him at this point in his career playing first line minutes in GR, then 4th line minutes in Detroit. If he was out of options that would be one thing, but we are not there yet.

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You guys that are just so scared to have Larkin and Athanasiou in the line-up wear me out. I know it might involve trading away some mediocre talent or cutting someone like Ferraro or Anderson but

good Lord how long do you suppress talent before letting it breathe and enjoy watching them on the real team.

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What worries me about that line, is I think it would do more damage to Athanasiou's development then good. I would much rather see him at this point in his career playing first line minutes in GR, then 4th line minutes in Detroit. If he was out of options that would be one thing, but we are not there yet.

I'm so sick of this STUPID argument!!!! If we had Lindros, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Yzerman all 19 years old, half of Red Wings fans, so drunk on Ken Holland's idiotic excuse for not knowing when players are ready = "over ripening", would say they want them getting first line minutes in Grand Rapids. mIt's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! I swear to God I think Drew Miller gives half the fan base free lower bowl tickets to keep everyone saying how every good young player should develop in Grand Rapids three more years!!

You guys that are just so scared to have Larkin and Athanasiou in the line-up wear me out. I know it might involve trading away some mediocre talent or cutting someone like Ferraro or Anderson but

good Lord how long do you suppress talent before letting it breathe and enjoy watching them on the real team.

Exactly!! Can you imagine Edmonton fans saying McDavid should get first line minutes in the minors vs. 2nd line minutes in the NHL. Why dont people like youth, energy, and speed around here? You think Larkin would have crushed this thinking by now. SMH

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I'm so sick of this STUPID argument!!!! If we had Lindros, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Yzerman all 19 years old, half of Red Wings fans, so drunk on Ken Holland's idiotic excuse for not knowing when players are ready = "over ripening", would say they want them getting first line minutes in Grand Rapids. mIt's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! I swear to God I think Drew Miller gives half the fan base free lower bowl tickets to keep everyone saying how every good young player should develop in Grand Rapids three more years!!

Man....calm down and please don't put words in my mouth. My post said NOTHING about "over ripening". I said that I would rather AA be playing first line minutes in GR, then 4th line minutes Detroit. You love the idea of putting every young kid on the main roster, go become an Oilers fan. Also, my last set of comments had NOTHING to do with Miller. Miller could go down with an injury and I would say the same thing. Just because everyone doesn't agree with your philosophy doesn't mean you need to have a tantrum.

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I'm so sick of this STUPID argument!!!! If we had Lindros, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Yzerman all 19 years old, half of Red Wings fans, so drunk on Ken Holland's idiotic excuse for not knowing when players are ready = "over ripening", would say they want them getting first line minutes in Grand Rapids. mIt's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! I swear to God I think Drew Miller gives half the fan base free lower bowl tickets to keep everyone saying how every good young player should develop in Grand Rapids three more years!!

Exactly!! Can you imagine Edmonton fans saying McDavid should get first line minutes in the minors vs. 2nd line minutes in the NHL. Why dont people like youth, energy, and speed around here? You think Larkin would have crushed this thinking by now. SMH

It's not black and white. The red wings aren't drafting all world talent every year, they're picking players with potential upsides because they didn't finish the season dead last in the standings.

Athanasiou or any individual player's NHl preparedness may be debated but the philosophy of sending later draft picks to the minors to develop is a sound practice with a proven track record of success.

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Man....calm down and please don't put words in my mouth. My post said NOTHING about "over ripening". I said that I would rather AA be playing first line minutes in GR, then 4th line minutes Detroit. You love the idea of putting every young kid on the main roster, go become an Oilers fan. Also, my last set of comments had NOTHING to do with Miller. Miller could go down with an injury and I would say the same thing. Just because everyone doesn't agree with your philosophy doesn't mean you need to have a tantrum.

Sorry. I just get irritated when common fans talk about a player's "development" as if they actually know anything about it and/or have a hand in it. Larkin played one playoff series in the AHL. Why the hell would you want to "develop" him any further in the AHL? It's clear to the EYE that he is top talent on our team. Athanasiou, Mantha, and Nosek are all showing signs of this, as well. If you watched the camps, watched the preseason, and watch the Griffs games, you can easily SEE this. So why are we burying them in GR? So we can have a career minus 4th line player playing 3,000 straight games for us? No thanks. Bring up the kids and take the trash out!!!

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Sorry. I just get irritated when common fans talk about a player's "development" as if they actually know anything about it and/or have a hand in it. Larkin played one playoff series in the AHL. Why the hell would you want to "develop" him any further in the AHL? It's clear to the EYE that he is top talent on our team. Athanasiou, Mantha, and Nosek are all showing signs of this, as well. If you watched the camps, watched the preseason, and watch the Griffs games, you can easily SEE this. So why are we burying them in GR? So we can have a career minus 4th line player playing 3,000 straight games for us? No thanks. Bring up the kids and take the trash out!!!

What's so difficult to understand about development? Development is getting players to the point where they can play in the NHL and maximize their potential. In the lower leagues they are taught the specific systems that they will use, they work on their skills against lesser competition and round out shortcomings in their games with advisors and coaches such as Nelson and Mike Knuble (who are almost definitely more experienced and knowledgable than any coaches they've had before). The organization has personal trainers and nutritionist that help players get in the best shape possible learn about off-ice training routines. Many players don't have that before they were drafted or don't have to the point that will help them at the NHL level. Many young players also haven't played anywhere close to the frequency and travel demands of the NHL. The AHL has similar demands that will let them handle a full season. It's a big jump from the QMHL or WHL (where AA and Mantha come from) to the NHL. AHL files in the gap.

Both Mantha and Anthanasiou have called their past seasons in Grand Rapids disappointing and acknowledged that they struggled. Let them work on their games there and get to the point where they're dominant or at least close to that league's elite and then they'll be solid players when brought up. They both did look very good in Preseason and it's encouraging, but preseason it's always an accurate reflection of how they'll do, especially over a full season. If they light up the AHL, I'm sure they'll get their shot soon enough. I think both player are going to be important parts of our future, but I doubt they would be "top talent" on our team right now. You can mess up a player's development (Edmonton has had numerous examples). Wings have done pretty well with their way of bringing up player if you look at the young players on the team so I have trust in it.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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What's so difficult to understand about development? Development is getting players to the point where they can play in the NHL and maximize their potential. In the lower leagues they are taught the specific systems that they will use, they work on their skills against lesser competition and round out shortcomings in their games with advisors and coaches such as Nelson and Mike Knuble (who are almost definitely more experienced and knowledgable than any coaches they've had before). The organization has personal trainers and nutritionist that help players get in the best shape possible learn about off-ice training routines. Many players don't have that before they were drafted or don't have to the point that will help them at the NHL level. Many young players also haven't played anywhere close to the frequency and travel demands of the NHL. The AHL has similar demands that will let them handle a full season. It's a big jump from the QMHL or WHL (where AA and Mantha come from) to the NHL. AHL files in the gap.

Both Mantha and Anthanasiou have called their past seasons in Grand Rapids disappointing and acknowledged that they struggled. Let them work on their games there and get to the point where they're dominant or at least close to that league's elite and then they'll be solid players when brought up. They both did look very good in Preseason and it's encouraging, but preseason it's always an accurate reflection of how they'll do, especially over a full season. If they light up the AHL, I'm sure they'll get their shot soon enough. I think both player are going to be important parts of our future, but I doubt they would be "top talent" on our team right now. You can mess up a player's development (Edmonton has had numerous examples). Wings have done pretty well with their way of bringing up player if you look at the young players on the team so I have trust in it.

I dont buy all this. Sorry. A player is good, or he isnt good. You're not going to get some guy who stinks, have him "develop" in the AHL, and then bring him up after 5 years. Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, Ouellet, Mantha, Larkin, Kindl - these guys are all top draft picks and they all have mad skills. Sure, they need to add muscle and weight, but a player is going to choose whether he wants it bad enough or not. Larkin put on 20 lbs over the last 18 months to get himself NHL ready. Nyquist is still 165 lbs soaking wet. Larkin will be effective in the playoffs, where the checking gets tight. Nyquist wont. If you call adding weight "development", then ok. Our young guys should be conditioning and getting their bodies to where they are effective against a physical opponent at the NHL level. But that doesnt have to happen in the AHL. That can be an ongoing process in the NHL.

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You guys that are just so scared to have Larkin and Athanasiou in the line-up wear me out. I know it might involve trading away some mediocre talent or cutting someone like Ferraro or Anderson but

good Lord how long do you suppress talent before letting it breathe and enjoy watching them on the real team.

I'm so sick of this STUPID argument!!!! If we had Lindros, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Yzerman all 19 years old, half of Red Wings fans, so drunk on Ken Holland's idiotic excuse for not knowing when players are ready = "over ripening", would say they want them getting first line minutes in Grand Rapids. mIt's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! I swear to God I think Drew Miller gives half the fan base free lower bowl tickets to keep everyone saying how every good young player should develop in Grand Rapids three more years!!

Exactly!! Can you imagine Edmonton fans saying McDavid should get first line minutes in the minors vs. 2nd line minutes in the NHL. Why dont people like youth, energy, and speed around here? You think Larkin would have crushed this thinking by now. SMH

Sorry. I just get irritated when common fans talk about a player's "development" as if they actually know anything about it and/or have a hand in it. Larkin played one playoff series in the AHL. Why the hell would you want to "develop" him any further in the AHL? It's clear to the EYE that he is top talent on our team. Athanasiou, Mantha, and Nosek are all showing signs of this, as well. If you watched the camps, watched the preseason, and watch the Griffs games, you can easily SEE this. So why are we burying them in GR? So we can have a career minus 4th line player playing 3,000 straight games for us? No thanks. Bring up the kids and take the trash out!!!

I hardly know where to start.

All players need to develop. ALL. Some are good enough to contribute in the NHL while developing. But other than the very elite few that are capable of being true impact players or those on teams with little talent, most will be better off developing in the minors. It pays to have good, NHL-ready, talent in the minors. At some point you're probably going to need them.

Beside that, it's not a matter of directly comparing a kid to the worst player on the team. You have to consider how the team as a whole is impacted. Larkin pushes Nyquist down, the guy below him down, the guy below that... He has an opportunity to show that he's worth it. If he does, he'll stay up.

Roles matter as well. It isn't Miller, Ferraro, and Andersson that would be replaced by kids. If we stay relatively healthy, Andersson may not play a game for us this year. Ferraro may not get many more. Our kids are far better off playing in GR than sitting in Detroit. If anyone is going to bump Miller it will be Larkin. After that if you want even more kids you're bumping Jurco or Pulkkinen. Miller may take a spot from one of them anyway. It's nice to have guys to eat up the hard defensive minutes so guys like Larkin don't have to. There's a reason every team has guys to do that. Miller and Glendening are currently 4th and 5th in TOI (which will probably surprise the anti-Babcock crowd), pretty much all of it being tough minutes. Would Larkin be as effective if he had to play those minutes? Maybe, and maybe we'll find out before long. But again, Miller is one guy. Only one guy can replace him.

None of the three kids you mentioned were all that impressive in GR last year. Sure they all looked decent in the meaningless preseason, so what. Franzen and Richards (I assume that's what you mean by trash) were both better in the NHL last year than any of the kids were in GR. Odds are they'll be better this year than any of the kids could be, even though they aren't young or fast or energetic. Odds are Jurco and Pulkkinen will be better this year than any of the kids could be.

If we're not healthy, the kids will get a shot. And if that happens, we'll be glad we can call up AA, Mantha, and Nosek instead of Meile, Aubry, and Tvrdon.

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I hardly know where to start.

All players need to develop. ALL. Some are good enough to contribute in the NHL while developing. But other than the very elite few that are capable of being true impact players or those on teams with little talent, most will be better off developing in the minors. It pays to have good, NHL-ready, talent in the minors. At some point you're probably going to need them.

Beside that, it's not a matter of directly comparing a kid to the worst player on the team. You have to consider how the team as a whole is impacted. Larkin pushes Nyquist down, the guy below him down, the guy below that... He has an opportunity to show that he's worth it. If he does, he'll stay up.

Roles matter as well. It isn't Miller, Ferraro, and Andersson that would be replaced by kids. If we stay relatively healthy, Andersson may not play a game for us this year. Ferraro may not get many more. Our kids are far better off playing in GR than sitting in Detroit. If anyone is going to bump Miller it will be Larkin. After that if you want even more kids you're bumping Jurco or Pulkkinen. Miller may take a spot from one of them anyway. It's nice to have guys to eat up the hard defensive minutes so guys like Larkin don't have to. There's a reason every team has guys to do that. Miller and Glendening are currently 4th and 5th in TOI (which will probably surprise the anti-Babcock crowd), pretty much all of it being tough minutes. Would Larkin be as effective if he had to play those minutes? Maybe, and maybe we'll find out before long. But again, Miller is one guy. Only one guy can replace him.

None of the three kids you mentioned were all that impressive in GR last year. Sure they all looked decent in the meaningless preseason, so what. Franzen and Richards (I assume that's what you mean by trash) were both better in the NHL last year than any of the kids were in GR. Odds are they'll be better this year than any of the kids could be, even though they aren't young or fast or energetic. Odds are Jurco and Pulkkinen will be better this year than any of the kids could be.

If we're not healthy, the kids will get a shot. And if that happens, we'll be glad we can call up AA, Mantha, and Nosek instead of Meile, Aubry, and Tvrdon.

We are 0 for the last 7 years using this approach. Athanasiou for Miller. Mantha for Franzen. It's that simple.

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Well the good news is, we have found a capable replacement for that bum Ken Holland... I mean, what does he know anyway? Guy clearly has no idea about player development... Now, Bill Merzeench and MileHighWingsGuy, they get it... Why "develop" a kid in the minors when you can throw him into the fire right away? Develop schmelop I say... The one player we didn't take our time with developing in recent memory is Jurco. He was a point per game player in the AHL, and he obviously didn't need more time down there, because he's tearing s*** up in the NHL now. Then we have guys like Nyquist and Tatar that toiled away in the AHL for years, and they were obviously ready when they were 19 or 20, guys were stars right off the draft table... Another thing, these idiot hockey analysts really need to stop with all the "Red Wings do it right". "Ken Holland's development philosophy of seasoning prospects is proven". F***ing Bulls***! Ken Holland doesn't know s***! Hand the reigns over to these guys...

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Well the good news is, we have found a capable replacement for that bum Ken Holland... I mean, what does he know anyway? Guy clearly has no idea about player development... Now, Bill Merzeench and MileHighWingsGuy, they get it... Why "develop" a kid in the minors when you can throw him into the fire right away? Develop schmelop I say... The one player we didn't take our time with developing in recent memory is Jurco. He was a point per game player in the AHL, and he obviously didn't need more time down there, because he's tearing s*** up in the NHL now. Then we have guys like Nyquist and Tatar that toiled away in the AHL for years, and they were obviously ready when they were 19 or 20, guys were stars right off the draft table... Another thing, these idiot hockey analysts really need to stop with all the "Red Wings do it right". "Ken Holland's development philosophy of seasoning prospects is proven". F***ing Bulls***! Ken Holland doesn't know s***! Hand the reigns over to these guys...

Jurco is doing just fine, and Larkin throws this thinking right out the window. Wish we had been watching Nyquist and Tatar 2 years earlier instead of Samuelsson and Cleary on their last legs. But since we had such deep post season success over the last 5 years, I guess you're right. Oh wait...

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Jurco should have absolutely spent more time in the American League. It would have benefitted him, just like it will benefit Mantha, Athanasiou and company. Larkin is the exception, not the rule. He is an unbelievable young talent, and there is no question that if there were a 2014 re-draft done today, he would be a top 5 pick.

Do you honestly believe that the Oilers way of doing things is better than the way the Red Wings have done things over the past two decades? The Oilers have had the luxury of picking elite players right off the draft table, and they have still managed to screw some of them up by rushing them. We pick mid to late round every single year, and because of that, we have to develop these kids in the minors first. Plain and simple...

I believe the Red Wings are great at drafting, but more than that, I credit the way they develop after they draft these kids. The way they develop kids out of junior and turn them into pros, is second to none. Sure, it may take longer than other organizations, but patience is key. And we're finally starting to see all of that patience pay off, and we will continue to see it pay off as long as we don't stray from that...

This method has proven to be very successful, so why question it? Why are you so adamant that your way is better than that of the most successful franchise in all major sports over the past 20 years?... Crazy...

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Jurco should have absolutely spent more time in the American League. It would have benefitted him, just like it will benefit Mantha, Athanasiou and company. Larkin is the exception, not the rule. He is an unbelievable young talent, and there is no question that if there were a 2014 re-draft done today, he would be a top 5 pick.

Do you honestly believe that the Oilers way of doing things is better than the way the Red Wings have done things over the past two decades? The Oilers have had the luxury of picking elite players right off the draft table, and they have still managed to screw some of them up by rushing them. We pick mid to late round every single year, and because of that, we have to develop these kids in the minors first. Plain and simple...

I believe the Red Wings are great at drafting, but more than that, I credit the way they develop after they draft these kids. The way they develop kids out of junior and turn them into pros, is second to none. Sure, it may take longer than other organizations, but patience is key. And we're finally starting to see all of that patience pay off, and we will continue to see it pay off as long as we don't stray from that...

This method has proven to be very successful, so why question it? Why are you so adamant that your way is better than that of the most successful franchise in all major sports over the past 20 years?... Crazy...

Who on the oilers is "screwed up"??

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