Roster Moves by the Wings

[kickazz 5,459]

I called someone out for putting ALL the blame on Smith. He's not the only reason we lost against Carolina, but he was on the ice for 4 of the goals against, and was a contributing factor in all of them going in. I am probably Smith's biggest fan, but I'm tired of waiting for him now. He's not progressing into what the Wings need him to be.

And as far as the prospects go, I never said we couldn't trade them. I'm all for trading them if we aren't going to play them.

That link I posted is from the Tampa game not Carolina. You should read your own previous post. And in this thread somehow you now conclude that Smith and Kindl have "completely failed". A radical switch in opinion?

[Bill Berzeench 310]

I'd be willing to bet Babcock phoned Phaneuf personally and told him to stay put, it's funny how the deal was all of the sudden never spoken of again. Toronto did not want Weiss, Bab's could have had a role to play in that too.

As far as Suter and Parise, Suter is NOT a 10m defenseman and paying Parise that kind of money does nothing to help our defense and only hurts us resigning players. I don't think it's a bum move on Holland's part at all.

I would agree with you if we didnt dump 20 million into Ericsson, Howard, Weiss, Cleary, and Samuelsson. I'd rather have Suter and Parise at 20 mil per than those 5 at 20 mil per.

That link I posted is from the Tampa game not Carolina. You should read your own previous post. And in this thread somehow you now conclude that Smith and Kindl have "completely failed". A radical switch in opinion?

Yah, I try to defend those 2 as much as possible, because I hate to think that the 1st round picks we spent on them were a complete waste. But after watching the last 2 games, both players looked completely lost and nothing like assertive NHL defensemen.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

I would agree with you if we didnt dump 20 million into Ericsson, Howard, Weiss, Cleary, and Samuelsson. I'd rather have Suter and Parise at 20 mil per than those 5 at 20 mil per.

Parise and Suter went to Wild due to family connections. They're not worth their money.

Really, you want Phaneuf and his contract? Really? Mantha could be quite good. Happy we didn't trade him.

Hamilton would have been nice. Doubt they would have traded within division.

All those prospects you like are Holland's doing. Green was a great move and we got him on a very reasonable deal. The jury is still out on Richards, but I think it was essential given that Dats was out, Mule was/is questionable, and no one was counting on Larkin doing as well.

2 loses in a row isn't that big of deal. Love the potential of this team. New coach, couple of new players, no Datsyuk - there's going to be some adjustment and ups and downs.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Parise and Suter went to Wild due to family connections. They're not worth their money.

Really, you want Phaneuf and his contract? Really? Mantha could be quite good. Happy we didn't trade him.

Hamilton would have been nice. Doubt they would have traded within division.

All those prospects you like are Holland's doing. Green was a great move and we got him on a very reasonable deal. The jury is still out on Richards, but I think it was essential given that Dats was out, Mule was/is questionable, and no one was counting on Larkin doing as well.

2 loses in a row isn't that big of deal. Love the potential of this team. New coach, couple of new players, no Datsyuk - there's going to be some adjustment and ups and downs.

Agreed. I'm on tilt a bit. Gotta chill.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

PANIC!!!!!

[sjr2012 439]

I'd be willing to bet Babcock phoned Phaneuf personally and told him to stay put, it's funny how the deal was all of the sudden never spoken of again. Toronto did not want Weiss, Bab's could have had a role to play in that too.

As far as Suter and Parise, Suter is NOT a 10m defenseman and paying Parise that kind of money does nothing to help our defense and only hurts us resigning players. I don't think it's a bum move on Holland's part at all.

Edited October 19, 2015 by sjr2012

[sjr2012 439]

what a lot of you guys have to realize is its only two games in I know we all love playing armchair GM but lets face it panic moves hurt teams in the long run first things first we need to see what are other d prospects have to offer I say we need to try marchenko and xaiver with our 4 other ds and see what combos work if it does than we see what we can do to move smith and kindl since there is no way they are not going to fit with us

Kronwall DD

Green BIG E

Q Oulette

Marchenko

and if Marchenko and XO outperform Big E than you think about what you can do there as well

Edited October 19, 2015 by sjr2012

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

what a lot of you guys have to realize is its only two games in I know we all love playing armchair GM but lets face it panic moves hurt teams in the long run first things first we need to see what are other d prospects have to offer I say we need to try marchenko and xaiver with our 4 other ds and see what combos work if it does than we see what we can do to move smith and kindl since there is no way they are not going to fit with us

Kronwall DD

Green BIG E

Q Oulette

Marchenko

and if Marchenko and XO outperform Big E than you think about what you can do there as well

So what you're saying is,

Panic?

[kickazz 5,459]

I would agree with you if we didnt dump 20 million into Ericsson, Howard, Weiss, Cleary, and Samuelsson. I'd rather have Suter and Parise at 20 mil per than those 5 at 20 mil per.

Yah, I try to defend those 2 as much as possible, because I hate to think that the 1st round picks we spent on them were a complete waste. But after watching the last 2 games, both players looked completely lost and nothing like assertive NHL defensemen.

They were a waste.

Pk Subban drafted 43rd, Smith drafted 27th.

The difference in these two is mind boggling.

Edited October 19, 2015 by kickazz

[sjr2012 439]

So what you're saying is,

Panic?

lol far from it id rather hold off until we start trailing off than see what we got from in our farm not sell the farm

They were a waste.

Pk Subban drafted 43rd, Smith drafted 27th.

The difference in these two is mind boggling.

it happens all depends on the scouting for that you cant look no further than z and 6 and 7th rounders but elite players

[kickazz 5,459]

it happens all depends on the scouting for that you cant look no further than z and 6 and 7th rounders but elite players

Of course. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you get unlucky. I was just being blunt in the comparison is all.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Of course. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you get unlucky. I was just being blunt in the comparison is all.

Imagine the regret of taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan!!

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Imagine the regret of taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan!!

No regrets. They already had a future Hall of Famer in Drexler, so they wouldn't have drafted another player at that same position.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

No regrets. They already had a future Hall of Famer in Drexler, so they wouldn't have drafted another player at that same position.

If they knew what Jordan was going to become, they sure would have.

[kipwinger 8,522]

5 games in and the glaring need in my view is an upgrade on the D. We need it but I feel that the current D corps are going to be given a fair crack before any call up or trade is made. Green is still feeling his way into his new team/role and I hope I'm wrong in this but Kronner is on the decline too. Big E has been punching over his weight since being in the show, last pick overall to top pairing on the Wings is no mean fete but it does stand out at times. We then have 2 1st round picks that have played over 200 games but neither seem to have taken that next step up in their careers. When we have Q as the top D performer no disrespect to him but you know things ain't what they should be. DD is going to be a top player for the Wings for years to come, we need to make sure he has at least one genuine no1/2 guy that will be with him.

I've said before that ill be happy if our 3rd pairing is Quincey and Ericsson, then I know well have a top 4 that are exactly that, top 4 D men.

We're top ten in the league in goals against. How is the defense the primary culprit? In our two losses we gave up 9 goals, four of which were powerplay and empty netters.

I'm not here to explain away our shortcomings or make excuses for the team. But this old "blame the defense" cliche is tired.

IMO we really need to find a way to get guys like Tatar, Richards, Sheahan, and Jurco going. We can't have one line consistently producing offense. Also, our special teams need to improve. That game against Montreal has an entirely different complexion if we make good on even one of those powerplays. And obviously you need to kill at least one of those penalties to keep that game within reach.

There are plenty of areas to be improved, but blaming the defense is lazy. They've played fine.

[kickazz 5,459]

No they haven't. Have you watch the last game or so? The amount of odd man rushes given up was incredible. The lack of ability to clear the puck from the zone was horrible. There were times where we looked like we were on the PK on full strength.

Looking at STATS for goals against isn't going to help in this scenario. It's a weak argument. Mrazek and even Jimmy have bailed out the defense more often than not.

The defense has been terrible plain and simple.

So has our second and (somewhat) third line.

Get the offense going and tighten up the defense and we're good to go.

Edited October 19, 2015 by kickazz

[joesuffP 1,746]

I suggest people watch other teams and watch how their defense plays. It is possible for a defenseman to make offensive plays GASP! Our D is unimaginative and stale. Clear the crease... Get it to a forward... Watch...watch... Blow in zone coverage...with Babs we relied on our forwards a lot... I think we have a great group of forwards but our D is bottom third of the league but that doesn't directly translate to bad GAA... Look at defensive scoring... It's been pitiful since lids trim retired and we used to be tops in the league year after year

Having competent scoring from the defense adds a goal per game to our scoring. No successful teams gets absolutely no scoring from their defense

[kipwinger 8,522]

It's always convenient to ignore stats when they don't support your argument. Seriously, I do it too. Buppy called me out on it a couple days ago. The fact of the matter is, we're not getting scored on much, and when we do it's often on the powerplay.

Our even strength goals against is less than 2 gaa. That's pretty good. However we've given up 4 pp goals (and one even strength goal) in 5 games. That's not great.

Now it seems the argument is changing so that we're now blaming the defense for the offensive shortcomings, which is an even more tenuous argument. No matter how you try to paint it, the facts are never going to support this "our defense sucks" argument. At least not through these first six games. They were bad in game four. That's it.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Look at shot differential. The shots will start to go in, trust me. It's been 5 games. You can also bank on our shooting percentage to go way down as well

[kipwinger 8,522]

I don't "trust" what people say. I trust what evidence tells me is true. Last year Chicago was top ten in the league in "shots against per game". And that was through 82 games. I'm WAY more worried about goals against, than shots. And right now we're letting in a disproportionate number of powerplay goals compared to the number we're scoring.

Keep trying to pin this on our "weak" defense. But sooner or later you're just going to have to conclude that they're not as bad as you're trying to make them seem. And that we've got much bigger fish to fry when it comes to getting this team playing as well as they can.

[joesuffP 1,746]

I don't "trust" what people say. I trust what evidence tells me is true. Last year Chicago was top ten in the league in "shots against per game". And that was through 82 games. I'm WAY more worried about goals against, than shots. And right now we're letting in a disproportionate number of powerplay goals compared to the number we're scoring.

Keep trying to pin this on our "weak" defense. But sooner or later you're just going to have to conclude that they're not as bad as you're trying to make them seem. And that we've got much bigger fish to fry when it comes to getting this team playing as well as they can.

Like what? We're small and weak? That hasn't gotten old

The defense is bad, anybody in management would tell you the same thing. Holland has tried everything possible to land defenseman does that not tell you anything. Bad puck movement kills our whole strategy

If you watched the game instead of staring at GAA you'd notice we play the entire game in our own zone. There's a trend here and shot totals tell the true story. Without great goaltending your argument is thrown out out the window. Actually one bad game by our goalies throws out your whole argument

[kipwinger 8,522]

Saying something over and over without using evidence to support it, doesn't make it true. Except in this case. You've convinced me. Our defense sucks. Because, despite not getting scored on much, they're not good at generating offense. Which apparently is their fault, and not the offense's.

I'm convinced. The offense is the defense is the offense. And round and round we go.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Zetterberg has 4 shots in 5 games. He's usually are shot leader by a WIDE margin. That's somewhat due to him playing center and feeding the Lark rather than shooting. I think he'll get shooting. There's also a few players that haven't found their game offensively yet and with that they'll get the confidence to shoot more. (Shea, Tatar, Richards) Tatar has 5 shots and he also was a shot leader last year.

I do think the main problem to overcome at the moment is getting the 2nd and 3rd lines going. Blashill has stuck pretty well to his idea of having 4 lines that player pretty equal minutes despite the fact that half the lines haven't been clicking. This could be a good strategy that will pay off over the season with players not been worn dawn and also due the fact depth is a strength of ours. I think it accounts for some of the lower shot totals, though, since the struggling lines haven't had much offensive push.

I feel the D has been fine. We just got DK back and that was a huge shot in the arm. The rest of the team was flat, though, in the back-to-back game. We have given up too many odd man rushes, but that's the risk you run when you try to get D involved with the rush as we have. It's quite a different mindset than Babs was running - I think the guys will get better at choosing the right times and covering for each other.

[kickazz 5,459]

I feel like Z shooting less makes him better hah.

[kipwinger 8,522]

And the special team. Don't forget those. We're currently not really very good at specials teams. We're in the bottom third in power play percentage AND penalty kill percentage.