Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Can we all agree on Zetterberg-Larkin-Nyquist as the first line? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader should be a staple. I think Nyquist is better when playing with Z, and Larkin should be centering his own line. Kip, I agree with you that each line should have a bigger body that can do the majority of the grunt work so I'd like to hear your take on my lines. What's the problem with having Sheahan being that guy on the 3rd line? I could see him doing well in an Abdelkader type role, he's a big body, good in the corners, and is pretty good in front of the net. He's also not very strong in the faceoff circles (has never finished a season above 50% and is currently at 45.9%). We all know that we have too many centers. Why not try Sheahan over on the wing? He looked pretty good there in preseason... Edited October 26, 2015 by krsmith17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader should be a staple. I think Nyquist is better when playing with Z, and Larkin should be centering his own line. Kip, I agree with you that each line should have a bigger body that can do the majority of the grunt work so I'd like to hear your take on my lines. What's the problem with having Sheahan being that guy on the 3rd line? I could see him doing well in an Abdelkader type role, he's a big body, good in the corners, and is pretty good in front of the net. He's also not very strong in the faceoff circles (has never finished a season above 50% and is currently at 45.9%). We all know that we have too many centers. Why not try Sheahan over on the wing? He looked pretty good there in preseason... I'm not opposed to it is guess. Everybody knows I don't like having centers as wingers, but it's going to happen one way or another if Larkin is in the lineup, so I'm fine with it in theory. As far as the rest of your lineup, that depends on whether Jurco can get it going or not. If he can pick it up then I don't have a problem with him playing with Dats and Tatar. But if not, then default back to Helm. Helm isn't huge, but he's proven more than capable of being a digger for Dats and Tatar. Something that Jurco hasn't done consistently (yet), and that guys like Larkin and Pulkkinen are ill suited for. 2 PavelValerievichDatsyuk and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 zombo, Tatar and Jurco looked great together in preseason and Jurco was a huge reason Tatar and Richards looked so good together in those couple games. You're right though, Jurco can't play hockey at all... I agree kip, I just don't want to see Jurco sitting anymore, and as much of a fan I am of Helm, his style of play is definitely more suited for a 4th line role than Jurco. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) zombo, Tatar and Jurco looked great together in preseason and Jurco was a huge reason Tatar and Richards looked so good together in those couple games. You're right though, Jurco can't play hockey at all... Preseason? f*** that. Athanasiou was the second coming of Max Pacioretty in the preseason. He's got one point so far in GRs. Preseason means jack squat. Edited October 26, 2015 by rick zombo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 zombo, Tatar and Jurco looked great together in preseason and Jurco was a huge reason Tatar and Richards looked so good together in those couple games. You're right though, Jurco can't play hockey at all... I agree kip, I just don't want to see Jurco sitting anymore, and as much of a fan I am of Helm, his style of play is definitely more suited for a 4th line role than Jurco. His type of game (so far) is also more suited for 2nd line digger too. That's the Catch-22 of it all. We can't afford to keep Jurco in the lineup if he's not doing anything. Especially given that Datsyuk and Tatar both had really solid years last season with Helm on their wing. We both agree that we need another digger in the top six. I'm all for Jurco having it IF he proves he can do something with the spot. Otherwise he's not more suited for that role than he is for a fourth line role. It's really up to him. He'll get the chance (just like he did when Franzen got hurt) but he's got to do something with it. We need Tatar and Datsyuk (or whomever the center is) producing. They can do that with Helm. So it's hard to justify keeping him on the fourth in favor of Jurco if the latter isn't producing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 The entire Griffins squad is off to a tough start, that has absolutely nothing to do with Athanasiou. I'll bet he will be hovering at or near a point per game by the end of the season. I agree that you shouldn't base opinions solely on preseason, but they do factor in. Jurco is a top 9 player, and he will develop into a "top 6" player... "I guarantee it"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 The entire Griffins squad is off to a tough start, that has absolutely nothing to do with Athanasiou. I'll bet he will be hovering at or near a point per game by the end of the season. I agree that you shouldn't base opinions solely on preseason, but they do factor in. Jurco is a top 9 player, and he will develop into a "top 6" player... "I guarantee it"... Doesn't mean you get to just gift him into that role in two weeks when Datsyuk returns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 A player doesn't necessarily need to be putting up points for them to be productive in a top line role for me. I could care less if Abdelkader puts up 20 points or 50 points on the top line as long as he's doing his job and providing time and space for Zetterberg and Nyquist to do their thing. Same goes for Jurco. People think of he's not producing he's useless. He's far from it in my opinion. The points will come for Jurco, but until they do, he'd still providing an element to whatever line he's on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader should be a staple. I think Nyquist is better when playing with Z, and Larkin should be centering his own line. Kip, I agree with you that each line should have a bigger body that can do the majority of the grunt work so I'd like to hear your take on my lines. What's the problem with having Sheahan being that guy on the 3rd line? I could see him doing well in an Abdelkader type role, he's a big body, good in the corners, and is pretty good in front of the net. He's also not very strong in the faceoff circles (has never finished a season above 50% and is currently at 45.9%). We all know that we have too many centers. Why not try Sheahan over on the wing? He looked pretty good there in preseason... Sheahan needs to figure out he's not smaller than Hudler before he could play that role. A cotton ball is harder than him. 2 rick zombo and Detroit \# 1 Fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 A player doesn't necessarily need to be putting up points for them to be productive in a top line role for me. I could care less if Abdelkader puts up 20 points or 50 points on the top line as long as he's doing his job and providing time and space for Zetterberg and Nyquist to do their thing. Same goes for Jurco. People think of he's not producing he's useless. He's far from it in my opinion. The points will come for Jurco, but until they do, he'd still providing an element to whatever line he's on. No one said anything about points. All Blashill wants Jurco to do is skate and he can't even do that right now Jurco has decent size (6-1, 203) and speed to go along with his skills. But Blashill would like to see him skate better. "I'd say we have a long-term plan with Jurco," Blashill said. "I think Jurcs is somebody who has done some real good stuff for me in the past. I believe lots in Jurcs. I think there's still another level with Jurcs, but what we're trying to do is give him some stuff, get him to where he's skating at the level I think he needs to skate at in order to be effective out there." http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/10/red_wings_have_a_long-term_pla.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 That's not "gifting him" that role, it's giving him an opportunity. An opportunity in which I think he could run with. Like I said, he is a top 9 player right now, I'd just put him up there because in my opinion he is better suited there. And at the same time Larkin would be better suited centering his own line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Somebody did say something about producing, just not you... That was in response to kip. Sorry, for whatever reason I'm still unable to quote people... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) That's not "gifting him" that role, it's giving him an opportunity. An opportunity in which I think he could run with. Like I said, he is a top 9 player right now, I'd just put him up there because in my opinion he is better suited there. And at the same time Larkin would be better suited centering his own line. He's been in the line-up and he hasn't made an impact yet. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Larkin can play anywhere and he can do it well already. Wing? Center? Whatever. Perhaps you're still upset that the point-per-game rookie's not in GRs like you wanted him to be. Maybe that bias is clouding your better judgement? Edited October 26, 2015 by rick zombo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksoni 418 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 As for Larkin, "top 6", "top 9", whatever. If he doesn't get enough minutes we might as well send him to the Griffins where he would get them. Will be interesting to see what happens after the Carolina game tomorrow which is his 9th and potentially last game the management can do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Making an impact, as in putting up points? Nope, not yet. Making an impact, as in providing space for his line mates and digging pucks out of the corners? Absolutely. Jurco hasn't been given a real chance on a scoring line in over a year. He's gotten a game here and there and if he didn't produce immediately it would be, back to the 4th line, or back to the press box. Give him a legit shot and he'll prove a lot of doubters wrong... Upset that he's not in Grand Rapids? Yeah, I wish our future number one center would fail... Give me a f***ing break... I'm not opposed to Larkin playing second line, providing it's at center and that would mean Pav and Hank would be reunited. I'm okay with that, but I'd prefer to see Nyquist with Zetterberg and Tatar with Datsyuk. Jacksoni, Blashill has shown that he likes to spread out the minutes fairly evenly throughout all 4 lines when he's able to, so Larkin on the "3rd line" wouldn't affect his minutes too much. And he's not going anywhere. No way he gets demoted at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 If we send Larkin down, stick a fork in the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 If we send Larkin down, stick a fork in the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Jurco needs to play top 3 lines with skilled players to produce not 4th and he needs to get some games to get going , what's he played one game? Not gonna do anything playing one game on a 4th line He's a skilled played and needs other guys to play off with .... Problem is there's just to many guys on this team as much as I'd love to see jurco play .... Looks like blashill is more on pulkkinen's side and the way he's starting off he could get 20-30 this year so can't see him being taken off Personally with Larkin making the team and the way Richards started off I'd get rid of him to make the kids play but I know it won't happen I'd like to see this With datsyuks return around the corner ... Abdelkader datsyuk zetterberg Tatar Larkin pulkkinen Nyquist sheahan jurco Helm glendening Miller For the next few games maybe since zetterberg can dish the puck I'd put pulkkinen on first line for a few games with hank and abdelkader and put jurco Larkin Tatar and see what happens Edited October 26, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksoni 418 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Krsmith, my argument stands and it is in sync with yours - if Larkin gets the minutes, whatever position and whatever line, he should stay. But if he starts getting 9min/game I'll get nasty. He's at around 17/game now, nice number. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Taking the perspective of someone who is indifferent towards Jurco. Aka I'm not a hater nor a fan boy of Jurco - I think he's got potential. He did decent in the preseason. It's not like he did spectacular. Personally I didn't like him on the 4th line like Babcock had him, I thought he came into the NHL maybe a season too early and was asked to play a role he shouldn't have. Having said all that. Jurco has been given good opportunity by Blashil and unfortunately he hasn't done much with it. This is the reality. Putting him on the top 6 while you have guys like Z, Dats, Nyquist, Tatar, Abby, Larkin, Richards, even Helm is just absurd. I know it sucks but lets be honest. Those guys mentioned above have done more as supportive or primary players in the top 6 than Jurco has. Although Richards has been s***** for the Wings, he just needs to get back into his groove as he is a proven top 6 center. But even without him, there's more guys knocking on that top 6 role before Jurco. One of who is named Larkin. 1 PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 I know a lot of people want this Zetterberg - Larkin - Abby line with Larkin being the center. (I myself preferred this in the beginning) But truth be told, Larkin is not doing so hot on the faceoffs. Zetterberg is the better center at the moment. But I guess if we're going with the shotgun approach and want him to CONTINUE being center, regardless of how bad he is on the faceoffs, then sure you can force him to developing that way. Otherwise, if it's a defensive zone faceoff on a critical time of the period. Say a one shot game.. I'd rather have The Beard take the faceoff than Larks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Define "good opportunity"... He has played 2 games, averaging under 11 minutes per night and zero time on the power-play, not saying he should be getting PP minutes, but still, not much of an opportunity to do anything... Again, people need to stop viewing lines as top 6 and bottom 6, it should be top 9. You can't just cram all your best players on two lines, you need to have chemistry and balance... Larkin isn't going to improve in the faceoffs playing on the wing. He needs to get experience as a centerman at the NHL level. He's had his bad games and some good games, but he's been improving. He was our best player in the faceoffs last game at 60%. 1 nyqvististhefuture reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 I'm thinking Jurcos back must still be an issue, Cuz he's not getting much opportunity at all, nor are we hearing very much about him other than blash wants to get him BACK to skating the way he was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Top 6 is an NHL mentality, we can't really start saying top 9. Sure we could do it for fun but it's meaningless in reality. I didn't imply that the best players should be on top 6. I specifically said "primary and support roles". Jurco simply doesn't trump any of out best scorers, board workers or playermakers on the top 6. We have one or two guys that are simply better at it then he is and seem to have better chemistry than he does around top 6. Since you're saying top 9 then why not just have him on the third line? I don't know what the line combos would be.. Additionally, it would be counter productive to break up your best possible lines just because you want to squeeze him into top 6. Technically our best lines are : Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abby Larkin - Zetterberg - Abby Tatar - Datsyuk - Helm Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abby Those 4 combos have been our best in recent history since 2013. If all those guys are healthy and playing they should be playing in either of those combinations. And I'm willing to bet Blashill knows this. (For one the stats are there to show it) Jurco has no place in there. Unfortunately. Unless you want to bring the kid line back - whatever that was. (I think Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco?) Edited October 26, 2015 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
