gdt 10/13 GDT : Lightning 1 at Red Wings 3

[rick zombo 3,739]

I remember Johnson eating Datsyuk alive in the POs too. He does that for time to time lol.

Big deal. The basketball-headed midget can skate by a 36 year old playing on one ankle. I hate Tyler Johnson.

[kickazz 5,459]

What about the MichiLine?

Abby-Larkin-Glendening.

Then Z-Dats-Jurco.

Alt account to the max.

[Buppy 1,720]

I think in general the team seems to be freer to make decisions for themselves, and play a more fluid game.

Blash is a lot like Cooper in that regard. And both remind me of coaches like Vigneault and Laviolette. Their philosophies seem less prescriptive. Babs' system seemed much less so. Other than a handful of guys (Dats, Z, Lidstrom, Kronwall), guys didn't seem free to make a play if it weren't part of the overall strategy. Hard to argue with Babs' system, he won lots of games. But I'm not sure its the right one for a team full of skill players. Guys like Dats, Z, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Richards, Pulkkinen, Jurco, Green, Smith, Kindl were drafted because of their offensive creativity, playmaking ability, speed, vision, etc. Not their ability to take a hit to make a simple play. There are a million guys that can do that. IMO, taking away their freedom to create cuts down on their effectiveness tremendously.

I'm sure I'll get a thousand responses explaining how Babcock was a superstar at letting his players play, and that I'm biased, and blah blah blah. And obviously we've only got 3 games under Blash to compare, so we need to see how things pan out over a full season. But it sure SEEMS like our guys are getting up ice quicker, dumping the puck less, creating higher quality scoring chances, etc.

Seems that way because that's what you want to believe.

Fact is we have the fewest shots in the league right now. We have not done well at all at getting up ice and generating offense. We have done well in capitalizing on a a relatively small number of chances, but the team has literally been worse in every single aspect you mention than was the norm under Babcock.

I expect we will get better, maybe even better than we were in the last few years, But to suggest that we have been better in these first few games is delusional. Seeing what you want now and remembering only the worst from Babcock.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Seems that way because that's what you want to believe.

Fact is we have the fewest shots in the league right now. We have not done well at all at getting up ice and generating offense. We have done well in capitalizing on a a relatively small number of chances, but the team has literally been worse in every single aspect you mention than was the norm under Babcock.

I expect we will get better, maybe even better than we were in the last few years, But to suggest that we have been better in these first few games is delusional. Seeing what you want now and remembering only the worst from Babcock.

I didn't say anything about shooting more. As a matter of fact I specifically mentioned getting better quality scoring chances. Which is probably why we've got one of the league's highest scoring offenses despite having fewer shots.

I'm also not "remembering the worst" about Babcock. All of his teams have transitioned slowly. Even the good ones. Team Canada wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire offensively, despite having obviously superior offensive talent. His game strategy is build around shot suppression. He's said so. Every team he's ever coached has clearly been so. Yet when I say he's not offensive, and plays back in the d-zone you come a runnin' to defend him.

Edit: Also, doesn't it make sense that a primarily defensive team would need to have a high volume of shots to score? Shooting a bunch doesn't necessarily make a team more "offensive". I'd imagine that Blahill's team will have a better goals per game, and a higher shooting percentage, and a much lower number of total shots. Just a guess.

Edited October 14, 2015 by kipwinger

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

I didn't say anything about shooting more. As a matter of fact I specifically mentioned getting better quality scoring chances. Which is probably why we've got one of the league's highest scoring offenses despite having fewer shots.

I'm also not "remembering the worst" about Babcock. All of his teams have transitioned slowly. Even the good ones. Team Canada wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire offensively, despite having obviously superior offensive talent. His game strategy is build around shot suppression. He's said so. Every team he's ever coached has clearly been so. Yet when I say he's not offensive, and plays back in the d-zone you come a runnin' to defend him.

that's the babcockian way, anyways he'll end up getting top tier talent since Toronto is so bad and Canadians will call him the second(third?) coming of christ

[kipwinger 8,524]

The guy's a good coach. I'm not taking that away from him. I'm just baffled that anyone would argue that his system isn't primarily defensive in nature. That's what makes him good. Why argue against it? If Detroit had been built around rough and tumble, two way Canadian trained players he'd likely have won more during his tenure. Unfortunately for him, all our best players are skilled, European trained, offensively creative players, so we didn't.

With Columbus' current lineup, Babs would probably have won two or three Cups. With the Rangers, he'd probably have not won any.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

[kickazz 5,459]

Nyquist and Z goals were absolute snipes.

[matthewdanna 143]

Seems that way because that's what you want to believe.

Fact is we have the fewest shots in the league right now. We have not done well at all at getting up ice and generating offense. We have done well in capitalizing on a a relatively small number of chances, but the team has literally been worse in every single aspect you mention than was the norm under Babcock.

I expect we will get better, maybe even better than we were in the last few years, But to suggest that we have been better in these first few games is delusional. Seeing what you want now and remembering only the worst from Babcock.

I have to say, with the exception of a couple periods, I agree with this. We are lucky (thank you goalies and unsustainable shooting percentages) to be 3-0.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Yeah I'm not sold yet either. The second game (out of a total of 3) the Wings had absolutely no business winning. They were outplayed handidly in just about every aspect. They looked well against Toronto (who has yet to win a game), and I'd say they looked good against Tampa after that first period. But by "they" I mostly mean the Abdelkader, Zetterberg, Larkin trio, because they seem to be the only ones who have looked good. Everyone else on the team has been underwhelming, and if it wasn't for those three players the Wings could easily be 0-3 right now.

Now that isn't to say I don't think the Wings are going to be a good team. I'm excited about a few things Blashill has adjusted and I think with time as the team continues to get oriented to his play style, and Blash gets oriented to the league as a head coach, the Wings will look more in synch with one another and we'll see a better result on the ice. In particular I like that the defensemen are activated in the offensive zone, and that includes everyone. I've seen Ericsson below the hashmarks a couple times this season already. I've seen Smith pinch low. I've seen Kindl skate deep. And none of those players have the offensive minds that Kronwall and Green do. As long as the weak side defender and forward cycle as necessary to cover I'm fine with defenders going as deep as behind the net if it keeps the play alive, or at worst impedes the time and space of a breakout against us.

The second thing I've noticed that I like is on defensive zone faceoff wins, the forwards seem instructed to sprint to the neutral zone, and don't seem to be responsible for helping carry the puck out of our end, unlike in year's past. This has backed the opposing defenders off the blue line and given our defenders a little more breathing room in that 10 feet on either end of our blueline to get the puck out. It also leads to odd-man rushes if the other team doesn't identify it in time. And because our team has such speedsters as Larkin, Nyquist, Pulkkinen, Helm, etc, the other team's defense needs to recognize this immediately or they're gonna get burned. In fact, this may have lead to a goal or a solid scoring chance involving Larkin in the first or second game this year if I'm recalling correctly.

So I guess to summarize my views on them so far is that overall I think they've been pretty sloppy, and Zetterber, Larkin, and Abdelkader have been a buffer against that. I expect that sloppiness to get cleaned up as we progress through the season, and there are some strategic differences that Blashill has implemented that I think will do this team well, especially considering the speed that our guys have.

Edit: I forgot to mention that goaltending has also been a big part in our 3 wins so far. They deserve credit also.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Echolalia

[Buppy 1,720]

I didn't say anything about shooting more. As a matter of fact I specifically mentioned getting better quality scoring chances. Which is probably why we've got one of the league's highest scoring offenses despite having fewer shots.

I'm also not "remembering the worst" about Babcock. All of his teams have transitioned slowly. Even the good ones. Team Canada wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire offensively, despite having obviously superior offensive talent. His game strategy is build around shot suppression. He's said so. Every team he's ever coached has clearly been so. Yet when I say he's not offensive, and plays back in the d-zone you come a runnin' to defend him.

Edit: Also, doesn't it make sense that a primarily defensive team would need to have a high volume of shots to score? Shooting a bunch doesn't necessarily make a team more "offensive". I'd imagine that Blahill's team will have a better goals per game, and a higher shooting percentage, and a much lower number of total shots. Just a guess.

Didn't say you did mention shooting. I mentioned our shot totals because it is a fair indicator of offensive pressure. But since you mention quality scoring chances; we are also near the bottom in HQ chances and below the rate we had last season (in fact lower than any of the Babcock era Wings teams).

Furthermore, looking at our goals they weren't particularly great chances, nor really the result of great playmaking, creativity, vision, fluidity, freedom, or even speed. Half our scoring thus far has been the result of a good net front presence, Abby for the most part. Then a defensive turnover led to Pulk's first. Soft defense on Z's first. A lucky roll on Q's EN. Larkin's was a good snipe off a speed rush, but nothing we haven't seen hundreds of times in the Babcock years. Couple of Abby's were off nice passes, but again, nothing we haven't seen before and nothing unusually high quality about them.

Our offense hasn't been good. Hasn't been better than it was under Babcock. Which is not saying that Babs wasn't a defense-first coach, nor that Blash won't get better and possibly be more offensive than Babs. But it just hasn't been the case in the first three games.

I don't want to further derail this with Babcock discussion. Maybe someone should start a thread for that.

Bottom line is I think we need to see a lot of improvement from our offense. I'm sure we will, I just hope it's enough. Abby and our goalies have been the difference between 3-0 and 0-3.

I think Larkin needs his own line. I'd be inclined to try Richards with Z and Abby. Some veteran savvy could probably find a way to mesh with them. Larkin would hopefully inject some life into another line.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Never heard of hq scoring chances being tracked as a stat.

We've only played 3 games. Impossible to determine if our scoring will be up or down with that small of a sample size

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

we've only had one effective line so that stat is understandable just wait until Helm and Pav return, or til Tats or Goose get hot

i'm not worried about these first three games.

All that matters is we got the 2 points without 3 of our best players

[kipwinger 8,524]

I don't disagree about Larkin having his own line, or playing around with Richards on the wing. We obviously need to have three lines going offensively. It's only going to make us that much more offensively potent. But I'm not sure that I agree our goals haven't come on high quality scoring chances. Both of Zetterberg's goals have been finesse plays. Larkin's was a pure snipe. Abby's one timer was off an awfully creative play from Zetterberg. It's definitely too early to tell how things will end up, but if we're scoring at a high percentage now, I can't imagine how it will change much when Tatar, Richards, Green, Nyquist, Franzen, etc. start contributing regularly. We're only going to get MORE offensive and we're currently top ten in goals per game (not that it matters much given how few games we've played).

[Buppy 1,720]

Never heard of hq scoring chances being tracked as a stat.

We've only played 3 games. Impossible to determine if our scoring will be up or down with that small of a sample size

War-on-ice has it. High-danger chances they call it. Not necessarily perfect, as it's somewhat subjective. Basically they look at where the shots come from and the situation to categorize shot attempts into low, medium, and high danger.

Also, I wasn't trying to predict anything. Just countering Kip's comment that the offense thus far "seems" better.

[Buppy 1,720]

I don't disagree about Larkin having his own line, or playing around with Richards on the wing. We obviously need to have three lines going offensively. It's only going to make us that much more offensively potent. But I'm not sure that I agree our goals haven't come on high quality scoring chances. Both of Zetterberg's goals have been finesse plays. Larkin's was a pure snipe. Abby's one timer was off an awfully creative play from Zetterberg. It's definitely too early to tell how things will end up, but if we're scoring at a high percentage now, I can't imagine how it will change much when Tatar, Richards, Green, Nyquist, Franzen, etc. start contributing regularly. We're only going to get MORE offensive and we're currently top ten in goals per game (not that it matters much given how few games we've played).

Not going to get into semantics. My point is that it's not like were getting a bunch of odd-man rushes and breakaways from our speed/transitions. Not a bunch of tic-tac-toe passing and defensemen jumping up leading to wide-open nets. Just mundane, good-work goals of the same type we've seen literally hundreds of over the years. And statistically we've seen less of those chances than we have in recent years. We've just happened to convert an unusually high percentage of them so far.

We're shooting 16.9% right now. No team in the post-lockout era has gone higher than 11.9% for a full year. We will not maintain that rate. We're not hitting that rate because we're doing anything special or different than the past. Sometimes you just have good stretches. We had several last year.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I think that outside of the first 2 periods in Carolina, the Wings are playing great. Sure the top line has most of the points, but its not like the 4th line isn't doing their job and the middle two are flying around generating some chances. Pulk and Nyquist are both on the board, Tatar is getting chances, but he is also getting more coverage. I think Richards is doing what he needs to do and that is be a very solid center and create some chances. The PP is doing fine, as is the PK. The D is better than last season's D at moving the puck out of the zone and staring the play. Goalies have been on fire. I really don't think there is much to complain about. Teams have games like the one in Carolina, and goalies sometimes steal those games like Petr did. They dominated TO, stole a game in Carolina and skated all around Tampa. I watched most of it and they seemed a lot faster than Tampa for most the game. At least in my opinion. Put it this way, they didn't get outplayed by Tampa like they did by Carolina. I know he didn't score, but Jurco had some flashes of speed and a couple of nice shots on goal. Not everyone scores every game, not all lines dominate. Soon enough Richards line is going to start putting some in and Z's is going to cool down. Z is not going to get 91 points, Abby isn't going to score 109 goals and Larkin isn't getting 100 points. They will slow down and another trio will take over. Gus and Tat will get their 25-30 goals (more hopefully) and our D will start tallying points as well. I don't expect them to go undefeated obviously, but I can see them being #2-#3 in the East if not challenging for #1. They already cooled down a hot Tampa team, we'll see how they match up against MTL and NYR when the time comes. Got to watch out for CBJ and NYI as well! FLA looks good plus they had our number last season. It's going to be tough, but from what I have seen thus far, they look great and no other team has really looked too much better. I've even watch some western teams, nobody really worries me. Anaheim looks good, can't wait to see how we match up against them!

[number9 3,297]

I think that outside of the first 2 periods in Carolina, the Wings are playing great. Sure the top line has most of the points, but its not like the 4th line isn't doing their job and the middle two are flying around generating some chances. Pulk and Nyquist are both on the board, Tatar is getting chances, but he is also getting more coverage. I think Richards is doing what he needs to do and that is be a very solid center and create some chances. The PP is doing fine, as is the PK. The D is better than last season's D at moving the puck out of the zone and staring the play. Goalies have been on fire. I really don't think there is much to complain about. Teams have games like the one in Carolina, and goalies sometimes steal those games like Petr did. They dominated TO, stole a game in Carolina and skated all around Tampa. I watched most of it and they seemed a lot faster than Tampa for most the game. At least in my opinion. Put it this way, they didn't get outplayed by Tampa like they did by Carolina. I know he didn't score, but Jurco had some flashes of speed and a couple of nice shots on goal. Not everyone scores every game, not all lines dominate. Soon enough Richards line is going to start putting some in and Z's is going to cool down. Z is not going to get 91 points, Abby isn't going to score 109 goals and Larkin isn't getting 100 points. They will slow down and another trio will take over. Gus and Tat will get their 25-30 goals (more hopefully) and our D will start tallying points as well. I don't expect them to go undefeated obviously, but I can see them being #2-#3 in the East if not challenging for #1. They already cooled down a hot Tampa team, we'll see how they match up against MTL and NYR when the time comes. Got to watch out for CBJ and NYI as well! FLA looks good plus they had our number last season. It's going to be tough, but from what I have seen thus far, they look great and no other team has really looked too much better. I've even watch some western teams, nobody really worries me. Anaheim looks good, can't wait to see how we match up against them!

I really think we're THE dark horse this year. No one gave us much respect, but I think we're going to seriously peak this year. Z and Dats are still young enough to contribute a lot. The kids are becoming prime as I type this. Plus Larkin is popping off, and Green was the PERFECT edition to the blue line. Couple that with a DEEP netminding and forward core.

My one negative opinion so far: Pulkkinen is not nearly as good most people seem to think.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Not going to get into semantics. My point is that it's not like were getting a bunch of odd-man rushes and breakaways from our speed/transitions. Not a bunch of tic-tac-toe passing and defensemen jumping up leading to wide-open nets. Just mundane, good-work goals of the same type we've seen literally hundreds of over the years. And statistically we've seen less of those chances than we have in recent years. We've just happened to convert an unusually high percentage of them so far.

We're shooting 16.9% right now. No team in the post-lockout era has gone higher than 11.9% for a full year. We will not maintain that rate. We're not hitting that rate because we're doing anything special or different than the past. Sometimes you just have good stretches. We had several last year.

Goal margin is 11-4 so far. Not too shabby.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Great post LeftWinger. Agree 100%

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Ppl bitching already yet we're 3-0 smh.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

just for the record I meant to say Z isn't going to get 191 points, he just may get to 90 if he stays healthy. Silly sticky keyboard!

[wings4thecup06 504]

What I'm really interested to see is what happens with Larkin once Helm and Datsyuk both return. Andersson looks like he's gone and I think he'll be easily waived but what next?

The 4th line has looked good and personally I like Ferraro on that line with Glendening and Miller. If Larkin continues to play as he is at the moment, are we looking at a situation where he goes back to GR or someone gets moved?

Is Jurco out of options?

[sjr2012 439]

agree number9 but I also have to say id rather see pulks In and jerk out his just not doing anything special to warrant being in if helm and franzen are healthy

What I'm really interested to see is what happens with Larkin once Helm and Datsyuk both return. Andersson looks like he's gone and I think he'll be easily waived but what next?

The 4th line has looked good and personally I like Ferraro on that line with Glendening and Miller. If Larkin continues to play as he is at the moment, are we looking at a situation where he goes back to GR or someone gets moved?

Is Jurco out of options?

is say try to package one of jurco smith and or kindl for some picks or another top 4 d man than keep everything else as is for the time

Z Dats Larkin

Tats Richards Goose

Helm Shehan Franzen/Pulks

Miller glen Fearro

[rick zombo 3,739]

is say try to package one of jurco smith and or kindl for some picks or another top 4 d man than keep everything else as is for the time

Z Dats Larkin

Tats Richards Goose

Helm Shehan Franzen/Pulks

Miller glen Fearro

Looks great. What the hell has Abdlekader done for this team anyway?