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kipwinger

Luke Glendening: Shutdown Extraordinaire.

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Some fun reading from the folks over at WingingitinMotown. Both Babs and Blashill have been committed to this notion that Luke Glendening should be out against the opposition's best. However, the raw numbers (at least this year) seem to suggest this is a bad idea.

Glendening seemed to play great against the Johnson line in last year's playoffs, so I'm not sure what's gone wrong. The article suggests that we were a much better possession team last year (which is true) but I don't know how that would make Glendening a much better possession player individually.

Thoughts overall?

The following chart shows each player's possession numbers with, and without, Glendening. He seems to be a possession black hole right now.

Here's the article in it's entirety. http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/11/2/9657724/luke-glendening-usage-a-halloween-scary-story-detroit-red-wings-nhl

glen.jpg

Edited by kipwinger

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If you play your 4th line against the oppositions best, then that means your 4th line is on the ice a lot. Bad idea.

This.

It can be good to have a shutdown 4th line center against the opposing top line but it shouldnt be EVERY shift. This just basically means were giving up 20 mins of the game because we have no threat of scoring

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Two fricking words - Drew Miller. Bring Athanasiou up and get Datsyuk back and all this CRAP goes away. Glendening-Helm-Athanasiou is a 4th line I pay attention to if Im the opposing coach. Ferraro-Glendening-Miller is a line I look to rip to shreds if Im the opposing coach. There is zero offensive threat with that current 4th line. Zero. With 3 speedsters, we change that. Corsi percentage will go up by backing the other team off with speed. Right now, the other team can leave Miller and Ferraro uncovered and it makes ZERO difference. Try that with Athanasiou, and you'll get burned.

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Two fricking words - Drew Miller. Bring Athanasiou up and get Datsyuk back and all this CRAP goes away. Glendening-Helm-Athanasiou is a 4th line I pay attention to if Im the opposing coach. Ferraro-Glendening-Miller is a line I look to rip to shreds if Im the opposing coach. There is zero offensive threat with that current 4th line. Zero. With 3 speedsters, we change that. Corsi percentage will go up by backing the other team off with speed. Right now, the other team can leave Miller and Ferraro uncovered and it makes ZERO difference. Try that with Athanasiou, and you'll get burned.

Your hate for Drew Miller is worse than mine for Cleary

Replace Andersson with Athanasiou and I'm on board. I'd also take Miller over Ferarro 10 times out of 10. More to hockey than offence.

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Two fricking words - Drew Miller. Bring Athanasiou up and get Datsyuk back and all this CRAP goes away. Glendening-Helm-Athanasiou is a 4th line I pay attention to if Im the opposing coach. Ferraro-Glendening-Miller is a line I look to rip to shreds if Im the opposing coach. There is zero offensive threat with that current 4th line. Zero. With 3 speedsters, we change that. Corsi percentage will go up by backing the other team off with speed. Right now, the other team can leave Miller and Ferraro uncovered and it makes ZERO difference. Try that with Athanasiou, and you'll get burned.

May as well bring Mantha up and make him the 13th forward while they're at it. No need to have either of them in GRs playing 15-20 minutes a night when they could play 7 in Detroit. Development what?

Edited by rick zombo

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If we could muster up a decent amount of O-zone face offs then Glendenings minutes would drop pretty significantly. It's more about using Z's line to score as opposed to an all purpose line. If Z's line isn't scoring, then we aren't going to win most likely. Imagine us play Dallas. I don't want Z's line taking defensive zone face offs against their top line

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Well, if Glendening is against the Turris line, I would expect them to have possession more and take more shots.

What's the alternatives? I don't want Z or the 2nd line playing a defensive role in these games - we're having enough trouble getting shots and chances as is. I'm fine with spreading out Glen's minutes with the 3rd line, except that it's Andersson right now and I don't think that guy's skating is good enough to go against the top centers. When Datsyuk's back, Sheahan will be back on the 3rd line and he can take some of those assignments.

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May as well bring Mantha up and make him the 13th forward while they're at it. No need to have either of them in GRs playing 15-20 minutes a night when they could play 7 in Detroit. Development what?

Who cares about development, bro? These kids are fast, and Drew Miller sux. Have you seen his plus/minus? We need the kidz.

On a more realistic note, Glendening doesn't help his teammates corsi for several reasons. Mostly it's because a lot of his toi is on the pk or out against the other teams best. He's not expected to score goals or get shots or possess the puck a lot. He's out there to frustrate the other teams best players and not get scored on. The other teams best players are going to have the puck, they're going to be able to shoot the puck that's expected. That's why he doesn't have a positive effect on people's corsi ratings. He's a defensive forward who gets under people's skin and he's good at it. He's doing his job just fine.

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i have never been one to believe a "4th line" should be made of your scrap parts and grinders.

to me, the NHL is the best players. so why not roll 4 lines, of equal time, with even balance players, every game.

key your most aggressive/fastest player on each line towards the opposing lines most dangerous scorer.

if glen plays best against crosby/johnson etc...then line him up. but if he is overworked by toews or patches, or OV...then keep him away!

the only reason i can figure that traditionally top 1-2 lines get more ice time is payroll.

we all can see what abdelkader has done to the top line. not a pure goal scorer by nature, but talented linemates brings out his best.

i would propose...

z-larkin-abdelkader

nyquist-glen-jurco

tatar-sheahan-pulk

AA-helm-miller

sit miller when pavel returns. pav-AA-helm line? hmmmm.

balance time on ice for all 4 balanced lines.

teams do this with specific defensive pairings...specific PK duties...powerplays...why not 5v5 time too?

each game, guys having "good night" get put into crucial moments, when needed.

example...franzen always lit up the senators...give him a good setup man (pav) and the disruptor that get the sens specifically in a bind. manipulate the weakness of the opposition.

loose andersson, call up AA!...or miele...or mantha..give them the 9 game blocks to show. thats approx 18-20 days of practice/games learning the system, gaining comfort and chemistry.

if you were to do this over the season, by playoffs you know what you got for callups and next year.

i know, the cap and roster limitations handcuff the team/league. that needs to be addressed in my book.

end rant.

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Yeah we pretty much don't want Nyquist-Sheahan-Tatar line taking any defensive zone face offs. I think the big problem is how bad our possession numbers are. We take a lot of defensive zone face offs so Glendening is needed a lot. We get his minutes down that means the team is playing well

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Glendening also has 54.5 % for faceoffs

http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/detroit-red-wings-team-stats?season=2015&seasonType=1&category=FACEOFFS&type=1&position=0

None of Larkin, Z, Sheahan, Andersson are above 50%. Andersson is the next closest at 48.6. This contributes to Glendening's usage. We put him in for defensive zone faceoffs because he's our best chance at winning the faceoff. But that also means he's in when they have their best chances.

We could use Helm for these situations (he's at 52.6 with only 19 fo taken) and that could help. I'd like him at 3C over Andersson. Richards was doing pretty well (52.7) at faceoffs so he could be used there when he's healthy.

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May as well bring Mantha up and make him the 13th forward while they're at it. No need to have either of them in GRs playing 15-20 minutes a night when they could play 7 in Detroit. Development what?

Yah, McDavid and Larkin should be developing in the ECHL. Youre right, bro.

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So our issue is our 4th line doesn't score? Really? Its not the stars that are failing to produce that is causing the problem or the D that is playing like crap, it is our 4th line?

Why does Miller get a free pass for life? His numbers stink. And they've stunk for a while. Run the same stat selection data on Miller and tell me what you find. He doesnt belong in our top 12 forwards now. I have no idea how people watch him and think that he does. Glendening should not be taking the fall for this guy.

Did you just compare McDavid and Larkin to Mantha?

Hah.

All first rounders. All highly touted. What's the problem again?

But my argument was for Athanasiou. Someone else mentioned Mantha.

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All first rounders. All highly touted. What's the problem again?

But my argument was for Athanasiou. Someone else mentioned Mantha.

McDavid and Larkin are much better than Mantha. Mantha needs further development, McDavid and Larkin do not. Your response to zombo doesn't apply.

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I think going power on power always worked for us in the past. With Larkin in the fold, and Pav back soon, why not do it again? The 4th line vs the 2nd line for other teams still gives us our 2nd line vs other teams 3rds, and then the 3rd vs the 4th. At least when we can dictate the matchups. We have enough depth up front that those matchups should favor us big time.

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I think going power on power always worked for us in the past. With Larkin in the fold, and Pav back soon, why not do it again? The 4th line vs the 2nd line for other teams still gives us our 2nd line vs other teams 3rds, and then the 3rd vs the 4th. At least when we can dictate the matchups. We have enough depth up front that those matchups should favor us big time.

Ummm..... no. We have Always had a top checking line take out the other team top lines when we used to win cups. Gring Line ring any bells? maltby-Draper-Kocur then Mccarty. That was their job.

Think back a couple of years. We played the Hawks in the PO's and had Z cover Toews. Yes he shut him down. But at the same time Z didn't score. We lost the series. When you take your best players that cost the most money and have them play D first, you hurt your own O. It takes more energy to play D than O. Federov used to talk about that. Yes your top players have to play some D. But have them cover the other teams 2nd/3rd lines when they don't have to spend so much energy and can still score us points.

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