All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm happy the Griffins seem to be getting younger. I'm not sure if they're actually getting younger (too lazy to do the math), but my impression is they are.

Terry - Turgeon - Svechnikov
Pope - Megan - Puempel
Smith - Holmstrom - Ford
Elson - Ehn - Shine
Esposito

Hicketts - Hronek
Sulak - Lashoff
Cholowski - Mcilrath
Chelios/Saarijarvi

Sateri
Rybar

Doesn't look all that different really. D looks deep and great, and all new goalies is exciting. Still feel like I'm missing some forwards thou... that group looks mediocre potential wise

[krsmith17 7,191]

Dylan Sadowy, Colin Campbell, Carter Camper, Trevor Yates and Jordan Topping are a few forwards you missed. Trevor Hamilton and Marcus Crawford are a couple defensemen you missed. And Kaden Fulcher and Pat Nagle are a couple goalies missed. Of course not all of these guys will make the Grand Rapids roster, some (most) will be sent down to Toledo, but still DET / GRG property so worth mentioning. I like the Topping and Crawford signings. Both are 21 years old, coming off strong seasons in the CHL. They probably won't ever be anything more than AHLers, maybe lower tier NHLers, but definitely worth the opportunity.

I'm not sure if we're much younger, maybe a little, but at least there's a few players to keep an eye on that could be up in Detroit some day.

I'm hoping Svechnikov can build off a rough sophomore season, and get another long look in Detroit. A lot of people are down on him right now, but I still have high hopes for the kid... I'm also hoping Turgeon can build off a strong sophomore season, in (hopefully) an increased role. I expect much of the same from Hronek, but maybe he can take another huge step this season as well. I'm also really looking forward to see how Cholowski, Smith and Pope transition from junior / college to the pro game.

I would say those are the 6 players I'm most excited to track this season in GR (assuming Zadina isn't down there)...

 

[solarion 118]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I would say those are the 6 players I'm most excited to track this season in GR (assuming Zadina isn't down there)... 

Lashoff h8r.

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, solarion said:

Lashoff h8r.

Nah, Lashoff is a solid veteran, but I'd say I get as excited about Lash as I do Matt Ford or Colin Campbell... Neither are a part of the Red Wings future, but solid soldiers for the Griffs.

[kipwinger 8,522]

Looking forward to seeing Saarijarvi carve up the AHL this season now that he'll finally get some playing time with Russo gone and (likely) Hronek with the big team.  I'm probably one of the few who thinks our defensive prospects are better than advertised.  

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Looking forward to seeing Saarijarvi carve up the AHL this season now that he'll finally get some playing time with Russo gone and (likely) Hronek with the big team.  I'm probably one of the few who thinks our defensive prospects are better than advertised.  

I'll admit that I'm not very high on Saarijarvi, or our defense prospect pool in general when it comes to developing into high end defensemen, but just curious, who do you see as potential top pair defensemen in our system? I like Hronek, Cholowski, and to a lesser extent Lindstrom, as well as our most recent addition, McIsaac, but I don't see any of them as legit top pair guys. Maybe one of them can emerge as a decent number 2, but that's best case scenario, and a bit of a long shot in my opinion. I also like Kotkansalo, Setkov, Holway, Regula and Barton on varying degrees, but I don't think any project to be anything more than bottom pairing defensemen, and probably only one or two will actually pan out.

I liked the Barton pick from this year's draft. Very good skater, good passer and gets his shots through from the point. He actually reminds me of Cholowski in a lot of ways. Both are BC boys, drafted out of the BCHL, and had similar numbers. They were both fairly lanky (similar stature) coming out of the draft (like most kids), and both are left shot defensemen. Both are / were committed to NCAA in their draft+1 year. It will be interesting to see if Barton sticks with the college route, or switches back to Canadian hockey (CHL) after a year, the same way Cholowski did. Barton is my pick to (hopefully) exceed expectations...

[barabbas16 499]

On 8/1/2018 at 2:12 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yes, I'm assuming Z and Ras make the roster...

So, you're also assuming that Zetterberg is done?  I figure that's the only way Zadina and Rasmussen both make the Detroit roster.  Is it now just generally expected that Zetterberg won't play anymore?

[solarion 118]

24 minutes ago, barabbas16 said:

Is it now just generally expected that Zetterberg won't play anymore? 

Best answer I've seen is from Ansar Khan, but that was way back on 7/9...haven't heard anything new since. Without Zetterberg, the Wings are a bit weak down the middle, and Veleno likely isn't a solution till next year. It'll be ugly if Zetterberg is on LTIR to start the season and either Larkin or Neilsen get bitten by the injury bug.

Quote

I didn't include Henrik Zetterberg because some in the organization doubt he'll return. But I don't believe anyone knows for certain, maybe not even Zetterberg himself.

He won't officially retire and stick the organization with a $4.3 million cap recapture penalty in each of the next three seasons. If he's done because of his back – even though he's played every game the past three seasons – they'll put him on long-term injured reserve at the start of the season.

https://www.mlive.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/07/09092bd257837/projecting_detroit_red_wings_s.html

Edited August 3, 2018 by solarion

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, barabbas16 said:

So, you're also assuming that Zetterberg is done?  I figure that's the only way Zadina and Rasmussen both make the Detroit roster.  Is it now just generally expected that Zetterberg won't play anymore?

No.

We have 21 players on the roster at the moment, counting Zetterberg. That's room enough for 2 players, Rasmussen and Zadina.

I would also feel quite comfortable waiving Witkowski to make room for another player.

Then we also have to consider that a few players will go down with injuries per usual (maybe including Zberg) making room for even more players.

Our roster is more flexible than your alluding to. But who knows, I could see Zadina and Ras starting in GR too. We still have to get through camp.

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No.

We have 21 players on the roster at the moment, counting Zetterberg. That's room enough for 2 players, Rasmussen and Zadina.

I would also feel quite comfortable waiving Witkowski to make room for another player.

Then we also have to consider that a few players will go down with injuries per usual (maybe including Zberg) making room for even more players.

Our roster is more flexible than your alluding to. But who knows, I could see Zadina and Ras starting in GR too. We still have to get through camp.

The 23-man roster includes 3 healthy scratches. If Rasmussen and Zadina make the Wings out of camp, and you waive Witkowski, who are the 3 healthy scratches? Frk. Who else? Glendening? As much as fans would love to see one of the kids in over Glendening, I don't see it happening. I don't see a scenario where Ras and Zadina make the Wings, unless there are trades and / or injuries before the season starts...

Also, Rasmussen can't play in Grand Rapids this season. If he doesn't make this Wings, it's back to Tri-City for him. There have been mixed reports on Zadina, but last I heard he was on loan to Halifax from Pardubice, which would make him AHL this season. Another tidbit, Veleno will be AHL eligible next season as well, because he started in the CHL when he was 15 (exceptional status) and will have 4 years in the Q under his belt.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

34 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

The 23-man roster includes 3 healthy scratches. If Rasmussen and Zadina make the Wings out of camp, and you waive Witkowski, who are the 3 healthy scratches? Frk. Who else? Glendening? As much as fans would love to see one of the kids in over Glendening, I don't see it happening. I don't see a scenario where Ras and Zadina make the Wings, unless there are trades and / or injuries before the season starts...

Also, Rasmussen can't play in Grand Rapids this season. If he doesn't make this Wings, it's back to Tri-City for him. There have been mixed reports on Zadina, but last I heard he was on loan to Halifax from Pardubice, which would make him AHL this season. Another tidbit, Veleno will be AHL eligible next season as well, because he started in the CHL when he was 15 (exceptional status) and will have 4 years in the Q under his belt.

Misspoke on Rasmussen. Yes, he can't play in GR. The league ruled Zadina can play in GR.

I'd scratch Bertuzzi, Frk, Glendening, Athanasiou. I really have no issue scratching Helm either, or Mantha if he starts getting lazy.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Misspoke on Rasmussen. Yes, he can't play in GR. The league ruled Zadina can play in GR.

I'd scratch Bertuzzi, Frk, Glendening, Athanasiou. I really have no issue scratching Helm either, or Mantha if he starts getting lazy.

F*** that noise... I'd rather Zadina AND Rasmussen spend the full season in Grand Rapids / Tri-City than scratch any of those three for a large chunk of the season...

[solarion 118]

Zadina should start the season as a Griffin. If the captain plays then I'd probably waive Witkowski, scratch Frk and Glendening(not that Blashill will mind you). Rasmussen needs to start with the Wings. He can't start with the Griffins and he isn't going to improve playing against kids...he needs a roster spot. Scratching Bertuzzi or Mantha sounds like a recipe for a slow start...Wings need their skill/energy. I'd be okay with scratching AA, but we need him to get going, if only to increase his trade value.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I have to say that I have generally been in the "overripe" camp. But with Zadina, I am for the first time ,  actually wanting to see a kid make the roster right out of the draft.

[krsmith17 7,191]

19 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I have to say that I have generally been in the "overripe" camp. But with Zadina, I am for the first time ,  actually wanting to see a kid make the roster right out of the draft.

I'm in the same boat. I've always advocated keeping kids in the American League until they're good and ready, but if Zadina proves to be ready sooner rather than later, I'm all for him making the team right out of camp, or at some point this season. In saying that, I don't think we should rush him either. Just because he was our highest pick in over two decades and was deemed to be one of the few players in this year's draft that was "NHL ready", doesn't mean he should be rushed into the best league in the world.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

F*** that noise... I'd rather Zadina AND Rasmussen spend the full season in Grand Rapids / Tri-City than scratch any of those three for a large chunk of the season...

I highly doubt anyone will be scratched for a large chunk of the season besides Witkowski

[Dabura 12,207]

32 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I have to say that I have generally been in the "overripe" camp. But with Zadina, I am for the first time ,  actually wanting to see a kid make the roster right out of the draft.

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm in the same boat. I've always advocated keeping kids in the American League until they're good and ready, but if Zadina proves to be ready sooner rather than later, I'm all for him making the team right out of camp, or at some point this season. In saying that, I don't think we should rush him either. Just because he was our highest pick in over two decades and was deemed to be one of the few players in this year's draft that was "NHL ready", doesn't mean he should be rushed into the best league in the world.

yeh.

2013 Mantha clearly wasn't ready to make the jump right away; his game had obvious shortcomings and he needed some time to address them. (Even now, the inconsistency continues to be a thing.) I know it's sort of expected that Wings fans are gonna say 2018 Zadina is different...but it's true. In addition to the scoring and playmaking, he plays a solid two-way game and he never takes a shift off. I guess his draft combine results were underwhelming, but I don't think his conditioning or physical maturity are in question.

If he has a good camp and isn't on the opening night roster, I'ma be disappointed.

[krsmith17 7,191]

54 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I highly doubt anyone will be scratched for a large chunk of the season besides Witkowski

I'm going off the assumption that everyone is healthy and there are no trades. In which case, someone other than Witkowski will be scratched for a large chunk of the season. I understand that there will likely be injuries, but I don't really think it's fair to count on injuries either. Let's assume Rasmussen makes the team, and Zadina is on the bubble. All I'm saying is if it comes down to playing Zadina in Detroit and scratching any of Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi, or keeping Zadina down in Grand Rapids, and never scratching any of Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi, I'd choose the latter every time.

[barabbas16 499]

Yeah, I just saw it as.... realistically, if Rasmussen and Zadina both make the roster and Zetterberg is healthy enough to play, I don't think there's a way any of those 3 are regular scratches. So, that would mean that one of 1) Larkin, 2) Mantha, 3) Nyquist, 4) Neilsen, 5) Abdelkader, 6) Helm, 7) Vanek, 8) Athanasiou, 9) Bertuzzi, and 10) Glendening would be a regular scratch...and I don't think that's likely to happen.  So (besides another injury to one of those 10) the only was both Rasmussen and Zadina make the opening roster is if Zetterberg isn't on it.

[solarion 118]

21 minutes ago, barabbas16 said:

So (besides another injury to one of those 10) the only was both Rasmussen and Zadina make the opening roster is if Zetterberg isn't on it.

...or someone is traded. "Sorry Luke, ya had a nice run bud, but we traded you for a bag of pucks..."

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm going off the assumption that everyone is healthy and there are no trades. In which case, someone other than Witkowski will be scratched for a large chunk of the season. I understand that there will likely be injuries, but I don't really think it's fair to count on injuries either. Let's assume Rasmussen makes the team, and Zadina is on the bubble. All I'm saying is if it comes down to playing Zadina in Detroit and scratching any of Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi, or keeping Zadina down in Grand Rapids, and never scratching any of Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi, I'd choose the latter every time.

Assuming the roster will be healthy is the mistake there. Injuries aren't likely, they're a certainty. I have no issue with sending Zadina to GR, but we probably won't have to.

I don't know why Mantha, Athanasiou, or Bertuzzi can't ever be scratched in your mind. Quite frankly, I would scratch any player not named Zberg (including LArkin) if said player isn't performing/doesn't have their s*** together. I picked out AA and Mantha because they are the usual suspects when talking about players who back-slide during the season and need a kick in the pants. Betuzzi cause he's new. Getting scratched when you're not playing well and fighting your way on to the roster is part of being a new guy. I think it's a good teaching moment for a young player. That being said, if Bertuzzi plays like a beast then he can and should play all 82.

[kipwinger 8,522]

11 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'll admit that I'm not very high on Saarijarvi, or our defense prospect pool in general when it comes to developing into high end defensemen, but just curious, who do you see as potential top pair defensemen in our system? I like Hronek, Cholowski, and to a lesser extent Lindstrom, as well as our most recent addition, McIsaac, but I don't see any of them as legit top pair guys. Maybe one of them can emerge as a decent number 2, but that's best case scenario, and a bit of a long shot in my opinion. I also like Kotkansalo, Setkov, Holway, Regula and Barton on varying degrees, but I don't think any project to be anything more than bottom pairing defensemen, and probably only one or two will actually pan out.

I liked the Barton pick from this year's draft. Very good skater, good passer and gets his shots through from the point. He actually reminds me of Cholowski in a lot of ways. Both are BC boys, drafted out of the BCHL, and had similar numbers. They were both fairly lanky (similar stature) coming out of the draft (like most kids), and both are left shot defensemen. Both are / were committed to NCAA in their draft+1 year. It will be interesting to see if Barton sticks with the college route, or switches back to Canadian hockey (CHL) after a year, the same way Cholowski did. Barton is my pick to (hopefully) exceed expectations...

I'm almost certain that you and I would define "top pair" defenseman differently, and I'm even more convinced that we'd disagree on what makes someone "a number one" defenseman (I actually don't even think that's all too relevant anymore).  I'm far more interested in how they are used, and more importantly, if they (meaning the defense as a whole) can score a bunch.  In this case I think they can and will.  I think Hronek, Saarijarvi, Cholo, and maybe Lindstrom will put up good point totals  (35 to 50 pts) in the NHL, if only because two of the three will get powerplay time down the road.  I think McIsaac has that potential as well but want to see what he does this year before making any judgements about his skill set.  Either way he'll make a good "defensive defenseman" potentially.  I feel basically the same way about Sulak.  Plus we will almost certainly pull from outside the organization at some point as well. 

In short, I don't care if we have a "true number one guy" because I think that notion overblown.  I'm far more concerned with modernizing our defense and I think we've got a lot of guys that can play modern defense effectively. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Assuming the roster will be healthy is the mistake there. Injuries aren't likely, they're a certainty. I have no issue with sending Zadina to GR, but we probably won't have to.

I don't know why Mantha, Athanasiou, or Bertuzzi can't ever be scratched in your mind. Quite frankly, I would scratch any player not named Zberg (including LArkin) if said player isn't performing/doesn't have their s*** together. I picked out AA and Mantha because they are the usual suspects when talking about players who back-slide during the season and need a kick in the pants. Betuzzi cause he's new. Getting scratched when you're not playing well and fighting your way on to the roster is part of being a new guy. I think it's a good teaching moment for a young player. That being said, if Bertuzzi plays like a beast then he can and should play all 82.

Sure, if we're talking about through the course of the season, injuries are a certainly. However, if we're talking about the opening night roster, while injuries are likely in training camp / preseason (I can't remember the last time we didn't have at least one injury that early), they're certainly not a certainty. I have zero doubt that Zadina will play in Detroit this season, when the inevitable injuries occur, but I don't see a scenario where he starts the season in Detroit, unless there is an injury or trade prior to opening night on October 4th.

I didn't say that any of those players "can't be scratched", what I said was that none of those players should be "scratched for a large chunk of the season". Sure, if any player is dogging it in practice and / or games, scratch his ass for a game or two. However, if that happens, chances are you're not going to call a player (Zadina) up from Grand Rapids for one (or two) game(s) and send him back down again after. Again, if / when Zadina plays in Detroit, it's going to because of injury or trade, not in place of a Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, or even Glendening (unfortunately) for a game or two.

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'm almost certain that you and I would define "top pair" defenseman differently, and I'm even more convinced that we'd disagree on what makes someone "a number one" defenseman (I actually don't even think that's all too relevant anymore).  I'm far more interested in how they are used, and more importantly, if they (meaning the defense as a whole) can score a bunch.  In this case I think they can and will.  I think Hronek, Saarijarvi, Cholo, and maybe Lindstrom will put up good point totals  (35 to 50 pts) in the NHL, if only because two of the three will get powerplay time down the road.  I think McIsaac has that potential as well but want to see what he does this year before making any judgements about his skill set.  Either way he'll make a good "defensive defenseman" potentially.  I feel basically the same way about Sulak.  Plus we will almost certainly pull from outside the organization at some point as well. 

In short, I don't care if we have a "true number one guy" because I think that notion overblown.  I'm far more concerned with modernizing our defense and I think we've got a lot of guys that can play modern defense effectively. 

So I guess you don't really believe in "number one" or "top pair" defensemen, and you think teams should be able to play defense by committee, and win with 4-5 very good defensemen? I'd agree with that, but the question then is, do we have enough high end defense prospects to make that happen? I'm not so sure...

If two defensemen in our system (Hronek, Saarijarvi, Lindstrom, Cholowski, McIsaac, other) can hit 35-50 points consistently I'd be thrilled. To say that all five will is a bit of a stretch though in my opinion. That would make them all "top pair" defensemen in today's NHL, based just on the raw numbers. We've only had two defensemen (Kronwall and Green) put up those point totals since Lidstrom retired (6 years ago)? Each did it twice. Kronwall had 49 points in 2013-14 and 44 points in 2014-15, and Green had 35 points in 2015-16 and 36 points in 2016-17. That means, not a single Red Wings defenseman hit 35 points this past season. Green was the closest with 33.

I don't think we need one 60+ point defenseman if we can have four 30-40 point defensemen or even two 40-50 point / two 10-20 point defensemen. However, I don't see any of that in our system right now... I certainly hope I'm wrong and we have a few guys that can exceed my expectations.

[solarion 118]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I certainly hope I'm wrong and we have a few guys that can exceed my expectations.

If we do, it's Hronek and Sulak ...maybe Cholowski imo. The offensive production from the blueliners has been abysmal since #5 retired. Bizarre that some scream about the Green re-signing...the Wings would generate nearly nothing from the back end without him. Remove he and Kronwall from the roster and the Wings are dead last in the league in offense imo...even with decent forward lines.

It ain't for nuthin' KH takes a swing at every puck moving dman that hits the market. It's pretty obvious what this team needs to improve, just finding/signing those guys is a PITA.

Imma go watch tape of #5 now...dood was a freaking machine...

Edited August 4, 2018 by solarion