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Richdg

The Holiday tradition: 2016 Draft thoughts.....

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http://www.thedraftanalyst.com/prospects/max-jones/

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/max-jones/22601/

http://octopusthrower.com/2016/03/03/detroit-red-wings-draft-profile-max-jones/

there are of course others. Yes he has tools to be a good offensive player, but then again so did Stu Grimson and kirk Maltby. Neither scored much in the NHL. Will Jones? To soon to know. I like the kid and will not be upset if we take him. I prefer Gauither as he is already scoring at a much higher level. Jones is the better skater between the 2. But anytime we can add an in-state kid that is a legit prospect is a plus.

Gauthier had 41 goals in 54 games for VD. To go along with the 32 goals in 50 games that Scvehnikov scored, this becomes a good pair to add in 2-3 years.

There's a big difference between actual scouting reports and fan-blog websites.

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I'm not sure how accurate those sites are, one I've never ever heard of... but I'd much rather take information on more reputable sources. Regardless, the stats are there to say otherwise.

I'm sick of people bringing up the Kirk Maltby stats, how he was a 50 goal scorer in junior, blah, blah, blah... First off, that was 25 years ago, secondly, Maltby was in his 3rd season at that point. It's very common for players 19-20 years old to put up very good numbers in junior. He put up a measly 27 points (12 goals, 15 assists) in 61 games in his rookie year in junior, and that is what we're comparing here...

Gauthier is also ranked 5-7 spots higher on most mock drafts that I've seen, maybe for good reason... In saying that, Gauthier's stats aren't that spectacular for a third year junior player, especially for the Q. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd much rather draft players out of either the O or W over the Q...

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Vitali Abramov , the kid will be a star a little undersized at present but hey remember Dats when he first came here. Not sure where he is projected to go in the draft but if he doesn't go in the first ill be surprised.

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I'm not sure how accurate those sites are, one I've never ever heard of... but I'd much rather take information on more reputable sources. Regardless, the stats are there to say otherwise.

I'm sick of people bringing up the Kirk Maltby stats, how he was a 50 goal scorer in junior, blah, blah, blah... First off, that was 25 years ago, secondly, Maltby was in his 3rd season at that point. It's very common for players 19-20 years old to put up very good numbers in junior. He put up a measly 27 points (12 goals, 15 assists) in 61 games in his rookie year in junior, and that is what we're comparing here...

Gauthier is also ranked 5-7 spots higher on most mock drafts that I've seen, maybe for good reason... In saying that, Gauthier's stats aren't that spectacular for a third year junior player, especially for the Q. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd much rather draft players out of either the O or W over the Q...

That is always the issue with all prospects: Junior is not the NHL Maltby was just one example. Lil Bert scored a ton in the OHL but to date not much in the AHL.

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That is always the issue with all prospects: Junior is not the NHL Maltby was just one example. Lil Bert scored a ton in the OHL but to date not much in the AHL.

No he didn't. He had one good year as an older player.

He's an Andrew Shaw type. Not a first line scorer.

Your constant ragging up of Bertuzzi is getting old...

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Did you not ready my last post? Bertuzzi, like Maltby was an older player in Junior when he finally started putting up big numbers. He put up 17, 22 and 35 points respectively in his first three seasons with Guelph, and then finally had his breakout season with 98 points as a 4th year, 20 year old... Not the same comparison at all... Also, like Son of a Wing mentioned, Bertuzzi was never expected to become a scorer, he was always expected to become a bottom 6 grinder / agitator, and that's likely what he'll become at the NHL level. An Andrew Shaw / Antoine Roussel type player, which is what you can usually expect with a late second round pick...

Anyway, back to Jones. Maybe there is something to what you were saying about him not being a great pick. McKenzie had him ranked at #16 on his mid-season rankings, but Button just came out with his own yesterday and had him ranked at #35. I'm not sure of his reason to have him so much lower, but I'm still not convinced it's his offensive game. Regardless, I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on him if he were still available late in the first...

My hope is still that one of the big name defensemen drop to us. Button has Chychrun, Sergachev, Bean and Fabbro all ranked from 9-12 respectively. Landing any one of the first three would be a great add...

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I would be happy with any one of Gauthier, Brown, or Jones. Different player types but all fill needs. Gauthier is Homer 2.0. he is going to score around 30 goals a year all from 15 ft or closer to the net. That is his game and he LOVES to play that way. Brown is a tall 2 way C, a poor mans Premieau. Not as fistic but same type of game. Good skater, good in all zones and should be a 20-25 G 50-60 point guy. Jones is more like McCarty. Big fast and physical and should score 18-22 G per year. All 3 make us a better team in a couple of years. All 3 fill major needs.


Did you not ready my last post? Bertuzzi, like Maltby was an older player in Junior when he finally started putting up big numbers. He put up 17, 22 and 35 points respectively in his first three seasons with Guelph, and then finally had his breakout season with 98 points as a 4th year, 20 year old... Not the same comparison at all... Also, like Son of a Wing mentioned, Bertuzzi was never expected to become a scorer, he was always expected to become a bottom 6 grinder / agitator, and that's likely what he'll become at the NHL level. An Andrew Shaw / Antoine Roussel type player, which is what you can usually expect with a late second round pick...

Anyway, back to Jones. Maybe there is something to what you were saying about him not being a great pick. McKenzie had him ranked at #16 on his mid-season rankings, but Button just came out with his own yesterday and had him ranked at #35. I'm not sure of his reason to have him so much lower, but I'm still not convinced it's his offensive game. Regardless, I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on him if he were still available late in the first...

My hope is still that one of the big name defensemen drop to us. Button has Chychrun, Sergachev, Bean and Fabbro all ranked from 9-12 respectively. Landing any one of the first three would be a great add...

Funny how your tune has changed from the prospects thread...... Just a reminder....

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/75505-tyler-bertuzzi/

Back then he was the second coming. Now what he did doesn't matter because he was a 3rd year guy blah blah blah....

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My tune has changed? From what? Sure, I was excited to see him finally producing, even if it were as an older player at the junior level, but here is exactly what I said in that thread... "I'm really starting to think Bertuzzi may have it in him to become more than a 4th line grinder. Chances are he'll never become a top 6 forward at the NHL level, but a really good bottom 6 guy is very likely."... Where you get "the second coming" from that is beyond me, but yeah, keep reaching... My tune hasn't changed one bit. I still think he has it in him to be a very good bottom 6 guy at the NHL level.

You hated when we drafted him, and I get it, he was picked way before anyone projected him, but he has exceeded everyone's expectations, and is likely going to become a solid NHLer, which is all you can ever expect from a late second rounder. Who else could we have picked that was projected to go around there? The only player that I would take in hindsight is Anthony Duclair, but I'm sure you knew back then that he was going to become a 3rd round steal right?...

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My tune has changed? From what? Sure, I was excited to see him finally producing, even if it were as an older player at the junior level, but here is exactly what I said in that thread... "I'm really starting to think Bertuzzi may have it in him to become more than a 4th line grinder. Chances are he'll never become a top 6 forward at the NHL level, but a really good bottom 6 guy is very likely."... Where you get "the second coming" from that is beyond me, but yeah, keep reaching... My tune hasn't changed one bit. I still think he has it in him to be a very good bottom 6 guy at the NHL level.

You hated when we drafted him, and I get it, he was picked way before anyone projected him, but he has exceeded everyone's expectations, and is likely going to become a solid NHLer, which is all you can ever expect from a late second rounder. Who else could we have picked that was projected to go around there? The only player that I would take in hindsight is Anthony Duclair, but I'm sure you knew back then that he was going to become a 3rd round steal right?...

Lets be clear. I don't hate Lil Bert. He would have been there in the 4th or 5th round. That is the part I dislike. Both of our 2nd round picks that year were too early. bailey was there, much higher rated and will be a top 6 forward in the NHL. Neither Lil Bert nor Nastasiak will be. Checkers? Sure. Both could still have long careers in that role. But it was a missed opportunity to add even more talent to our team. That can't be over looked.

Now please don't take this personnel it wasn't meant as such.

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Did you not ready my last post? Bertuzzi, like Maltby was an older player in Junior when he finally started putting up big numbers. He put up 17, 22 and 35 points respectively in his first three seasons with Guelph, and then finally had his breakout season with 98 points as a 4th year, 20 year old... Not the same comparison at all... Also, like Son of a Wing mentioned, Bertuzzi was never expected to become a scorer, he was always expected to become a bottom 6 grinder / agitator, and that's likely what he'll become at the NHL level. An Andrew Shaw / Antoine Roussel type player, which is what you can usually expect with a late second round pick...

Anyway, back to Jones. Maybe there is something to what you were saying about him not being a great pick. McKenzie had him ranked at #16 on his mid-season rankings, but Button just came out with his own yesterday and had him ranked at #35. I'm not sure of his reason to have him so much lower, but I'm still not convinced it's his offensive game. Regardless, I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on him if he were still available late in the first...

My hope is still that one of the big name defensemen drop to us. Button has Chychrun, Sergachev, Bean and Fabbro all ranked from 9-12 respectively. Landing any one of the first three would be a great add...

Something you don't like about Fabbro? I think he'd be a great pick.

Kieffer Bellows is my top choice of the guys that could reasonably be available, or McLeod, though most have him in the top 10.

Seems like a really deep draft this year, I'd love to see us pick up an extra first or early 2nd. Ton of guys in the mid-1st I really like, and a few ranked later. Tufte and Niemelainen could be there late-1st/early-2nd. I'd love to land one of them, in addition to one of the mid-1st guys.

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Like I've said before, I don't know a ton about any of these guys, other than articles, youtube clips, stats, so I don't have anything against Fabbro really, other than not like drafting out of the Canadian Junior A Leagues. The BCHL is a lower tier league and not known for a great development program. The only noteworthy defenseman I know that has come out of that league is Justin Schultz (there likely are others). In saying that, I wouldn't be disappointed with the pick, just would love to see one of the other three fall to us (don't see it happening)...

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Like I've said before, I don't know a ton about any of these guys, other than articles, youtube clips, stats, so I don't have anything against Fabbro really, other than not like drafting out of the Canadian Junior A Leagues. The BCHL is a lower tier league and not known for a great development program. The only noteworthy defenseman I know that has come out of that league is Justin Schultz (there likely are others). In saying that, I wouldn't be disappointed with the pick, just would love to see one of the other three fall to us (don't see it happening)...

Both Fabbro and teammate Tyson Jost (who I think would be another good pick) are committed to college. They can't play CHL or they'd lose eligibility.

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nyquististhefuture, I agree to an extent. I had the exact same mentality last year, and somewhat again this year. If there's a high end defenseman and a high end forward available when we pick, we obviously need to take the defenseman. However, for whatever reason, we've been sticking to picking forwards in the first round of late, and maybe it's just that the scouts are more confident in their ability to pick forwards, I don't know. But despite a glaring need on the back end for the past few seasons, they've elected to go with forwards with their first pick and may do it again this year. I'd be okay with that, as long as Holland can fill the need on the back end via trade. If he can package a forward(s) / prospect(s) / pick(s) together to land a high end defenseman, I'd rather he go that route, as long as the GM on the other side doesn't rape him... Look at Nashville and their ability to draft defensemen, but for whatever reason they're not great at drafting forwards, the exact opposite seems to hold true for us, at least as far as first rounders go...

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We shouldn't even be looking at offensive prospects as it's very clear our urgent need is help on the back end

We got some real promising prospects upfront coming .... I think we should Just look at defensemen for the first 3 rounds

Agree and disagree here. Yes our most pressing need is at D. But there has to be value in who you draft. Most of the D prospects in this draft are 3+ years away, we need help now. Thats why I hope we trade/sign a UFA or 2 for the blueline and continue to draft at F were there is value. On that note most of our best F prospects are already in Detroit and there isn't much behind them atm. Only Scvehnickov (spelling) is left as a high end prospect.

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nyquististhefuture, I agree to an extent. I had the exact same mentality last year, and somewhat again this year. If there's a high end defenseman and a high end forward available when we pick, we obviously need to take the defenseman. However, for whatever reason, we've been sticking to picking forwards in the first round of late, and maybe it's just that the scouts are more confident in their ability to pick forwards, I don't know. But despite a glaring need on the back end for the past few seasons, they've elected to go with forwards with their first pick and may do it again this year. I'd be okay with that, as long as Holland can fill the need on the back end via trade. If he can package a forward(s) / prospect(s) / pick(s) together to land a high end defenseman, I'd rather he go that route, as long as the GM on the other side doesn't rape him... Look at Nashville and their ability to draft defensemen, but for whatever reason they're not great at drafting forwards, the exact opposite seems to hold true for us, at least as far as first rounders go...

I think we just need to look out more for d's were good upfront with anathansiou Larkin mantha for many years , and got svhechnikov coming bertuzzi etc ... , I think we can afford to calm down on the forwards and maybe draft 3-4 d's and then last few rounds go for a Andersson type prospect and hope for a homerun

And for the other person who said the wings only other top prospect is svechnikov , could be wrong but I think we got some other kids to be hopeful with , maybe not a top line kid but I like axel holmstrom , what's not to like about a late pick who has the record in the Swedish league for most playoff rookie points?

He goes to the net , has some skill, needs to work on his skating but he's got the tools to make it , nosek, bertuzzi,turner on,nastasiuk all guys who can make it , frk is coming back from the dead with his production this season

Defense ... That's the way to go ... Unless we could trade with a team like ducks or flyers and grab a few defensemen since they are so stacked

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nyquististhefuture, I agree to an extent. I had the exact same mentality last year, and somewhat again this year. If there's a high end defenseman and a high end forward available when we pick, we obviously need to take the defenseman. However, for whatever reason, we've been sticking to picking forwards in the first round of late, and maybe it's just that the scouts are more confident in their ability to pick forwards, I don't know. But despite a glaring need on the back end for the past few seasons, they've elected to go with forwards with their first pick and may do it again this year. I'd be okay with that, as long as Holland can fill the need on the back end via trade. If he can package a forward(s) / prospect(s) / pick(s) together to land a high end defenseman, I'd rather he go that route, as long as the GM on the other side doesn't rape him... Look at Nashville and their ability to draft defensemen, but for whatever reason they're not great at drafting forwards, the exact opposite seems to hold true for us, at least as far as first rounders go...

My guess is that it's a best available player mentality. Being beholden to your team's supposed needs in the present, when you're drafting for the future, is never a good idea. Just pick whoever's at the top of your list.

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I think we just need to look out more for d's were good upfront with anathansiou Larkin mantha for many years , and got svhechnikov coming bertuzzi etc ... , I think we can afford to calm down on the forwards and maybe draft 3-4 d's and then last few rounds go for a Andersson type prospect and hope for a homerun

And for the other person who said the wings only other top prospect is svechnikov , could be wrong but I think we got some other kids to be hopeful with , maybe not a top line kid but I like axel holmstrom , what's not to like about a late pick who has the record in the Swedish league for most playoff rookie points?

He goes to the net , has some skill, needs to work on his skating but he's got the tools to make it , nosek, bertuzzi,turner on,nastasiuk all guys who can make it , frk is coming back from the dead with his production this season

Defense ... That's the way to go ... Unless we could trade with a team like ducks or flyers and grab a few defensemen since they are so stacked

I understand your thoughts on him but how many euros have thrived in europe and failed here? Its a long list..... Until he plays in GR and proves he can handle things he is a ? at best.

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I understand your thoughts on him but how many euros have thrived in europe and failed here? Its a long list..... Until he plays in GR and proves he can handle things he is a ? at best.

What's your point? You can say that about literally every prospect in existence.

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What's your point? You can say that about literally every prospect in existence.

Correct. There are reasons why guys are drafted early and drafted late. To put a ton of stock in a late round pick that is doing well overseas is hopeful at best silly at worst. If you can't see the difference in the game at the different levels then I can't help you.

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Correct. There are reasons why guys are drafted early and drafted late. To put a ton of stock in a late round pick that is doing well overseas is hopeful at best silly at worst. If you can't see the difference in the game at the different levels then I can't help you.

Thanks for completely missing the point...lol

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I understand your thoughts on him but how many euros have thrived in europe and failed here? Its a long list..... Until he plays in GR and proves he can handle things he is a ? at best.

How many guys have thrived in the ahl and done nothing in the NHL?

Anyone who's ever drafted is basically a ? Until they play in the NHL , there's loads of top 5 picks that stunk ... Doesn't mean there's no reason to be optimistic on players

We won't know if holmstrom will be a NHL player until he comes down but the fact that he broke a Swedish elite league record for playoff points by a rookie held by the sedins is something to be hopeful about , that and his play at the juniors for Sweden ... Kids got potential

Unfortunetly not much potential on the back end prospect wise which had to be addressed this draft by taking as many d's as possible (3-4 at least preferably )

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With 7 games to be played we are drafting 14th, out of the PO's.

:lol: and that was well worth breaking the streak! We MADE the playoffs and got Larkin at #15, Holland screws the fans and gets to probably move up 1 spot from there....Holland is a joke.

BUT, not to harp on him too much here, there are plenty of threads to do that!

Maybe we'll get a higher pick within the lottery system....and then trade that for something we need!

How about we get the #1, trade it to Chicago for Kane? :lol: Ok, I kid....

Edited by LeftWinger

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:lol: and that was well worth breaking the streak! We MADE the playoffs and got Larkin at #15, Holland screws the fans and gets to probably move up 1 spot from there....Holland is a joke.

BUT, not to harp on him too much here, there are plenty of threads to do that!

Maybe we'll get a higher pick within the lottery system....and then trade that for something we need!

How about we get the #1, trade it to Chicago for Kane? :lol: Ok, I kid....

Don't start trading these picks now.... We are finally getting to the top 10 or so, keep the picks draft and develop.

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