The Elite Dylan Larkin

[kickazz 5,459]

Rookie season imo shouldn't be an indicating factor since the league has yet to figure you out. Nyquist scored like 28 goals in his 50 something game campaign (first "full" season") but his goal scoring per game played ratio has dropped since then.

What's to say the same doesn't happen to Larkin? You know he likes going for the wrap around (i.e it's becoming more obvious). Come next year, most goalies will anticipate it.

Just wait and see in my opinion. I think he'll be a great player, and maybe elite one day but it's too early to judge. For now we can all agree that he's one of our best.

Edited January 7, 2016 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

I said this in another thread, but it's much more relevant here...

My problem with arguing the word "elite" is much like arguing the meaning of many words, people have different interpretations... To me, elite is not exclusive to two or three players in the league, nor is it two or three players on every team.

When Babcock left for Toronto, one of his quotes regarding Nazem Kadri was "well I expect him to be an elite player". I don't think anyone would suggest that Babs expected Kadri to be a top 50 player in the league, let alone top two or three... I've heard Blashill say several times that he believes DeKeyser "is an elite player in the league". Does that mean he thinks he's the next Lidstrom or Orr? I doubt it. Another quote from Blashill regarding Nyquist and Tatar, "I believe they either have been or are going to be elite players in this league". Does anyone think that Blash is saying that they have the potential to be the next Gretzky or Lemieux? Again, I doubt it.

How many times have we heard coaches, commentators, analysts say so-and-so is elite, or even just a generic comment such as "they have some elite players over there" when talking about the opposition? It could be regarding the Chicago Blackhawks or the Buffalo Sabres, the word is still used. No one would argue that there is at least one elite player on Chicago, whether it's Toews, Kane, Keith, etc., but who on Buffalo is elite? My point is, oftentimes the word is used very loosely, and it just depends on your interpretation of the word.

Larkin has been compared to some of the greats that were / are elite. Everyone's heard the comparisons to Yzerman and Toews, just or not. I think everyone would agree that Larkin is an elite rookie in the league and has elite potential, but I don't think it's fair to label him elite league wide at this point in his career. Just my opinion...

That's exactly what some of us are saying. Larkin might or probably will be elite. The way some coaches have used it, for example Babs where he said, "I expect Kadri to be elite" , he's not exactly declaring Kadri to be elite. A coach expects a lot of things, makes sense to me, he wants his center to aim higher and strive to be the best.

It's just standard to grade players. "Elite" is just a common verbal usage for players that are regarded as the best in the league. It's not necessarily top 3. It could be top 20. Maybe top 30. There's hundreds of players out there.

For instance this article - http://www.defendingbigd.com/2015/4/8/8365051/dallas-stars-tyler-seguin-jamie-benn-sidney-crosby-alex-ovechkin-patrick-kane-points-goals

That's an analysis of "elite" offensive players. It's a list of top players and looking at where Seguin and Benn fit in there. Seguin is only now in the conversation of being among the elite. Larkin might get an article like that from the media down the road.

Edited January 7, 2016 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

So... what exactly is your argument?... I wasn't arguing anything, just making general statements regarding the topic. I agree with everyone saying that Larkin has potential to become elite. I don't think it's fair to label him as elite status quite yet...

[kickazz 5,459]

So... what exactly is your argument?... I wasn't arguing anything, just making general statements regarding the topic. I agree with everyone saying that Larkin has potential to become elite. I don't think it's fair to label him as elite status quite yet...

My bad I did not read your last sentence where you stated your conclusion on Larkin. I edited my response.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

The last guy to make the NHL all star game under 20 years old and in his first NHL season - Mario Lemieux.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Ummm you might want to fact check that one... Where did ya get this info?...

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Ummm you might want to fact check that one... Where did ya get this info?...

Memory. You got another one?

[krsmith17 7,191]

Jeff Skinner was an 18 year old All-Star if my memory serves me correctly...

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Well, you got me there Bobby. You debunked my ass pretty good on that one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Skinner

[brett 1,029]

ill hold off on all judement until after next season. if he can keep the pace up then maybe. hes doing really good this season. do you take elite away from crosby this season cause hes not a top scorer?

i think there is room for improvement too. he falls and gets pushed around easily. i think if he can keep his pace get his weight and muscle mass up he will be a force.

[Wingnut1989 165]

Larkin is elite on this team, other teams maybe not so much. Imagine our season without him.

[kickazz 5,459]

Also makes me happy that Larkin is in for the all-star game and Eichel or Panarin aren't. All-star game is pretty silly and all but the recognition/publicity Larkin is going to get (while representing the Red Wings) excites me.

Edited January 7, 2016 by kickazz

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

ASG aside, I think it's extremely premature to be talking about Dylark as an elite hockey player, and I think it breeds unrealistic expectations. He has a f*** ton (actual measurement, look it up) of potential, and has achieved the rare feat of Exceeding Expectations , but the kid is a rookie. He's just getting his sea legs, and to compare him to Yzergod this early in the game is setting us all up for heartbreak. Let him develop his game, and let's sit back and enjoy watching him. I don't want to puff him up now and in two years be talking about "what could have been." I'll set my expectations moderately, and hopefully we'll all be blown out of the water if and when he grows to be truly "elite."

[nosyt612 103]

Well, you got me there Bobby. You debunked my ass pretty good on that one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Skinner

Just off the top of my head Ekblad made it last year, and Crosby and Ovechkin obviously would have made it in their first years, but it happened to be an Olympic year.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Sidney had over 100 pts his first year. That's impressive in the trap era NHL.

[kickazz 5,459]

ASG aside, I think it's extremely premature to be talking about Dylark as an elite hockey player, and I think it breeds unrealistic expectations. He has a f*** ton (actual measurement, look it up) of potential, and has achieved the rare feat of Exceeding Expectations , but the kid is a rookie. He's just getting his sea legs, and to compare him to Yzergod this early in the game is setting us all up for heartbreak. Let him develop his game, and let's sit back and enjoy watching him. I don't want to puff him up now and in two years be talking about "what could have been." I'll set my expectations moderately, and hopefully we'll all be blown out of the water if and when he grows to be truly "elite."

I agree with this.

Part of the reason why a lot of fans end up hating on highly coveted players who end up not doing as well... is because of our own hype.

Edited January 7, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

I agree with this.

Part of the reason why a lot of fans end up hating on highly coveted players who end up not doing as well... is because of our own hype.

The glass is half empty viewpoint.

I'm gonna take the other side. Larkin is only half as good as he will be right now. He's playing with 2 guys who skate like I summersault. When they get 2 guys who can keep up with him (Mantha and Athanasiou), he's gonna really tear it up.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

The glass is half empty viewpoint.

I'm gonna take the other side. Larkin is only half as good as he will be right now. He's playing with 2 guys who skate like I summersault. When they get 2 guys who can keep up with him (Mantha and Athanasiou), he's gonna really tear it up.

That right there is the flaw in your argument. Potential as an elite player doesn't mean currently elite. If Larkin is elite right now, so are Panarin, Pavelski, Kuznetsov, Steen, Hoffman, Cammaleri, Sharp, Eriksson, Little, Hartnell, and the other 64 forwards who have as many or more points.

[kliq 3,755]

Sidney had over 100 pts his first year. That's impressive in the trap era NHL.

Sidney's rookie year was in 2006, this was the first year post lockout when a ton of rule changes were made to increase scoring. The "trap era" arguably ended in 2004.

2006 had the most goals per game in the last 20 years.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

[kickazz 5,459]

That right there is the flaw in your argument. Potential as an elite player doesn't mean currently elite. If Larkin is elite right now, so are Panarin, Pavelski, Kuznetsov, Steen, Hoffman, Cammaleri, Sharp, Eriksson, Little, Hartnell, and the other 64 forwards who have as many or more points.

What a setup and what a finish.

/closethread

[Bill Berzeench 310]

What a setup and what a finish.

/closethread

Nope. Points arent the only factor to determine, i'm afraid. But good try.

[kickazz 5,459]

Nope. Points arent the only factor to determine, i'm afraid. But good try.

Yet you used the plus/minus stat to define Larkin as elite (and point out why other players suck)

Cool.

Edited January 7, 2016 by kickazz

[toby91_ca 620]

I must admit that I was surprised Crosby was left off the roster, it makes no sense to me. He's he had an absolute horrible start to the season...but that's also by his standards, his offensive stats are still better than almost half the forwards on the roster (10 of 24). The all star games if for the kids and for your corporate sponsors, you want to showcase your stars...it's mind boggling that he wouldn't be selected unless there have been behind the scenes requests to leave him off due to nagging injury (playing through but doesn't want to end up in situation he and other players have been before with the AS game).

Crazy to think though, he's actually only played in 1 all star game. He would have been there based on performance every year, but missed 5 due to injury, 3 due to Olympics and 2 due to lockout.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

So tell me Bill, what other than +/- which is a flukey stat, makes Larkin elite RIGHT NOW. Not in 5 years, or 3 years, or even next year. Right now today.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

I must admit that I was surprised Crosby was left off the roster, it makes no sense to me. He's he had an absolute horrible start to the season...but that's also by his standards, his offensive stats are still better than almost half the forwards on the roster (10 of 24). The all star games if for the kids and for your corporate sponsors, you want to showcase your stars...it's mind boggling that he wouldn't be selected unless there have been behind the scenes requests to leave him off due to nagging injury (playing through but doesn't want to end up in situation he and other players have been before with the AS game).

Crazy to think though, he's actually only played in 1 all star game. He would have been there based on performance every year, but missed 5 due to injury, 3 due to Olympics and 2 due to lockout.

John Scott will take care of the sponsors and the kids.