The Elite Dylan Larkin

[kylee 727]

3 hours ago, kliq said:

Do you still think he's elite?

a 23 goal scorer, elite? 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

5 hours ago, kylee said:

a 23 goal scorer, elite? 

There was a certain someone insisting that Larkin was already an elite player 2 months into his rookie season.

[brett 1,029]

hes above average

everyone hopes he pans out to be a 1C but in reality hes 2C at best

[kliq 3,755]

6 hours ago, kylee said:

a 23 goal scorer, elite? 

That's my point. I dont even think he was at 23 goals when this thread was made, if I remember correctly the main reason for the term "elite" being used was his plus/minus and speed.

17 minutes ago, brett said:

hes above average

everyone hopes he pans out to be a 1C but in reality hes 2C at best

He's definitely not elite, but saying 2C "at best" is kind of an ultra pessimistic way of looking at it.

The realistic way would be 1C at best, 3C at worst, 2C most likely.

[kickazz 5,459]

Could be a 1C with Zetterberg as his Winger. (Who would most likely end up doing most of the center work anyways lol)

[Jacksoni 418]

I think we'll find out this season where he'll fit in long term. I keep wishing he's like M. Jordan, with a clinically crazy drive to win (and train) which like a force of nature makes him top notch while initially considered high end in the middle of the pack.

The more realistic view is what kliq writes and what I agree with so far, most likely a 2c. Good, but not a star. Hope I am wrong.

[xtrememachine1 795]

This kid just turned 21.  A lot of players are not even in the NHL yet at 21.  Meanwhile, he has a couple seasons and an all star appearance under his belt already.  Elite has different meanings here.  Some people are looking at his stats and saying he's not going to be elite because they're not like McDavid or Matthews numbers.  However, Datsyuk and Zetterberg were never league leaders in scoring numbers, yet were considered to be elite in their prime because of how effectively they played both ends of the ice.  Take a look at Datsyuk and Zetterberg's first couple years in the league.  They were a little older and had much more talent around them than Larkin and his numbers are pretty similar to theirs.  I'm optimistic that he'll become a solid two way player that can rack up an unusually high number of points for this type of player and will be very similar to Z and D.  Whether that makes him elite or not is a matter of opinion.

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, xtrememachine1 said:

This kid just turned 21.  A lot of players are not even in the NHL yet at 21.  Meanwhile, he has a couple seasons and an all star appearance under his belt already.  Elite has different meanings here.  Some people are looking at his stats and saying he's not going to be elite because they're not like McDavid or Matthews numbers.  However, Datsyuk and Zetterberg were never league leaders in scoring numbers, yet were considered to be elite in their prime because of how effectively they played both ends of the ice.  Take a look at Datsyuk and Zetterberg's first couple years in the league.  They were a little older and had much more talent around them than Larkin and his numbers are pretty similar to theirs.  I'm optimistic that he'll become a solid two way player that can rack up an unusually high number of points for this type of player and will be very similar to Z and D.  Whether that makes him elite or not is a matter of opinion.

Not disagreeing with the overall message here, but as far as the bold goes.....they were though.

16 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Coach screwed him last year.  Put him with Z and Mantha this year, and he will excel.

I'd rather see him play 2C then 1W.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

I'd rather see him play 2C then 1W.

For sure. We need him playing full time center as soon as possible, and I'm happy to hear that he will at least start there again this season. Ideally he plays 2C behind Zetterberg, but if that spot goes to Nielsen, I'd also rather him as 3C rather than wing. My ideal top 6 would be...

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha

Tatar - Larkin - Athanasiou

[kliq 3,755]

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

For sure. We need him playing full time center as soon as possible, and I'm happy to hear that he will at least start there again this season. Ideally he plays 2C behind Zetterberg, but if that spot goes to Nielsen, I'd also rather him as 3C rather than wing. My ideal top 6 would be...

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha

Tatar - Larkin - Athanasiou

My only concern about that second line, is I could see them having problems getting the puck out of the corners if Blashill has them dump and chase.

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, kliq said:

My only concern about that second line, is I could see them having problems getting the puck out of the corners if Blashill has them dump and chase.

I think Athanasiou would be more than capable of retrieving pucks for that line. I think the combination of speed and skill would be lethal on that line. Of course it will likely be Nielsen and Abdelkader up there with Nyquist or Tatar, so whatever...

[kliq 3,755]

43 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think Athanasiou would be more than capable of retrieving pucks for that line. I think the combination of speed and skill would be lethal on that line. Of course it will likely be Nielsen and Abdelkader up there with Nyquist or Tatar, so whatever...

I hope you're right, sky's the limit for the kid. Not sure about 90 points lol, but I think he can be a solid 2nd liner.

[kickazz 5,459]

54 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think Athanasiou would be more than capable of retrieving pucks for that line. I think the combination of speed and skill would be lethal on that line. Of course it will likely be Nielsen and Abdelkader up there with Nyquist or Tatar, so whatever...

He is definitely capable, but he doesn't play that type of game. He's not much of a puck retriever or (to take it up a notch) a two-way center; not unless he's on the PK. That's why Blashill gives him the s*** treatment when it comes to minutes. I've noticed it too to be honest. He gotten better about it as the season progressed though. I almost think Blashill puts AA on PK just to force him to play the retriever/defensive game at some point during the 60 minutes. It's a forced way to increase someone's hockey IQ. As much as Blashill is given s*** about AA's minutes, putting him on PK is probably the smartest decision he's made for his further development. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

24 minutes ago, kliq said:

I hope you're right, sky's the limit for the kid. Not sure about 90 points lol, but I think he can be a solid 2nd liner.

Yeah, I agree, other than the bolded... LeftWinger? I don't think 60 is out of reach though.

16 minutes ago, kickazz said:

He is definitely capable, but he doesn't play that type of game. He's not much of a puck retriever or (to take it up a notch) a two-way center; not unless he's on the PK. That's why Blashill gives him the s*** treatment when it comes to minutes. I've noticed it too to be honest. He gotten better about it as the season progressed though. I almost think Blashill puts AA on PK just to force him to play the retriever/defensive game at some point during the 60 minutes. It's a forced way to increase someone's hockey IQ. As much as Blashill is given s*** about AA's minutes, putting him on PK is probably the smartest decision he's made for his further development. 

Yeah, he's still young and adapting to the NHL. Athanasiou is the type of player, I'm okay with and would like to see them try to mold into more of a two-way player. Same goes for Larkin. I just want them to leave Mantha alone and let him do what he does best, score goals. However, I do believe Athanasiou has that puck retrieval ability in his game. He's never been a defensive dynamo and likely never will be, but I remember watching a lot of him in junior, in particular in Barrie, and he was a puck hound. He rarely lost board battles, maybe because he had the size and strength, something he still needs to work on against the bigger, stronger NHL players. I think if he were told to be that guy on that line, he wouldn't excel over time.

[kliq 3,755]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, I agree, other than the bolded... LeftWinger? I don't think 60 is out of reach though.

lol yes.

I could see 60 points.

Edited August 15, 2017 by kliq

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

On 1/6/2016 at 6:38 AM, Bill Berzeench said:

Convo moved from Drouin thread to here.

I say this 19 year old phenom is definitely elite. How many forwards in the league would you rather have?

Good call, Bill.

[Dabura 12,206]

25 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Good call, Bill.

THE PROPHECY!

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Some of the pessimism in this thread is funny. Larkin is on pace for 75-80 points this season. Does that make him just above average? Or only a 2C?

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

14 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Some of the pessimism in this thread is funny. Larkin is on pace for 75-80 points this season. Does that make him just above average? Or only a 2C?

Actually hard to say. With league scoring up this year, I would say he is a good/great 1C. Not yet elite though 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

24 minutes ago, Euro_Twins said:

Actually hard to say. With league scoring up this year, I would say he is a good/great 1C. Not yet elite though 

Yes

[kipwinger 8,496]

This, like all other discussions of the type, is really one of semantics.  He's not an elite scorer.  But neither were Bergeron, Toews, or Kopitar (until a year ago).  Yet all of those are names that would have probably come up if asked about "elite" centers over the last 5 or 10 years, largely because their two way game is so good.  Dylan clearly has shown that type of two way prowess this season.  If he can continue to do it consistently then he's as much an "elite" center as those guys were...if they ever were. Depends on how you define it.  If "elite" only refers to elite scoring then there's probably only a handful of elite players in the league. 

Popularity also plays a big part in who gets the "elite" tag.  I'd guess most people wouldn't complain too much if Tavares, Stamkos, or Thornton were called "elite" but would stop well short of calling Ryan Getzlaf, Niklas Backstrom, or Jason Spezza elite despite the fact that their career numbers are comparable or better than anything the others have done.

Edited January 5, 2019 by kipwinger

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I consider "elite" to be in the top 5 at your position (maybe less for goalies). So while I wouldn't consider LArkin "elite", he is definitely better than above average. I would rate him as a "Star" or an All-Star calibre center. And he is definitely a 1C at this point.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Dabura 12,206]

Worth noting that this thread is old. Thread was started in 2016 and the last post before Jonas's bump is from August 2017.

[krsmith17 7,191]

14 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Worth noting that this thread is old. Thread was started in 2016 and the last post before Jonas's bump is from August 2017.

Yeah, Larkin clearly wasn't elite when this thread was created, but I'd consider him close now. Not quite there yet though based on *my* definition of elite (top 5ish at his position). I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility though, for him to emerge as an elite center over the next couple years, especially if / when he's given a couple capable (maybe even elite themselves) wingers.

I thought Larkin could become a 70+ point, responsible, two-way center, and it looks like that's around where he'll end up this season, at the tender age of 22. I didn't think he'd ever become a 90+ point center, which is what I'd consider him in the conversation of elite. But after seeing what he's capable of with wingers like Helm / Abdelkader and Mantha / Nyquist, I think he could definitely get there with a Hughes / Kakko / Cozens and Zadina / Mantha on his wings...

[kliq 3,755]

14 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I consider "elite" to be in the top 5 at your position (maybe less for goalies). So while I wouldn't consider LArkin "elite", he is definitely better than above average. I would rate him as a "Star" or an All-Star calibre center. And he is definitely a 1C at this point.

I think this is fair.....though I would just add that for me to consider someone elite, I need to see this level of play for a few seasons in a row. Many guys have been top 5 players at their position for 1 year only to drop off the next season.