Ken Campbell predicts Stamkos to Detroit blockbuster

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Strongly disagree here.

I also don't think hes in his prime (even though hes at his "prime age" and I believe hes had his most productive seasons already. Stamkos doesn't scare me like he did 3 years ago and I don't think he ever will

By that logic Yzerman was worse in 97 and 98 than he was before Bowman got there because his scoring dropped off. Stamkos is a more complete player now than he was when he was up in the top in 3 scoring every year.

[kickazz 5,459]

By that logic Yzerman was worse in 97 and 98 than he was before Bowman got there because his scoring dropped off. Stamkos is a more complete player now than he was when he was up in the top in 3 scoring every year.

To be honest Stamkos actually has significantly declined this year.

His point total last year was 72 (already much lower than his previous years bests) and is 58 this year with only 10 games left. He scored 43 goals last year and is at 33 this year.

His puck possession has dropped aka his corsi/fenwick.

So not only has he fallen off offensively but also in terms of his possession (which people like Buppy and Kipwinger consider a big part of defense).

Grit, faceoff, Takeaway/Giveaway ratio, shot blocking is all still similar to last year

Edited March 20, 2016 by kickazz

[e_prime 1,936]

To be honest Stamkos actually has significantly declined this year.

How does it stack up in comparison to Datsyuk's decline?

[kickazz 5,459]

How does it stack up in comparison to Datsyuk's decline?

Lol.

So I actually looked it up.

Datsyuk hasn't decline in possession metrics at all. (like I said in that other thread)

Stamkos's decline is nearly identical to Zetterberg's. Z was 54% in corsi while Stamkos was 53% last year. Both at 51% this year. Big dip.

Anyways to steer this back to topic. Technically Stamkos's value should drop. He simply isn't the 90 point scorer he was for like 3 seasons in a row. And as I've already pointed out - he isn't a more "complete player" like we think he is. He's just not the offensive player he was years ago. And defensively speaking he hasn't really gotten much better.

But obviously these damn teams will throw their money at him. Except Holland. I don't think Holland will pay him $10 million - because truly speaking I'm starting to wonder if Stamkos is really worth that much.

Who knows. Maybe I'm being overcritical now.

Edited March 21, 2016 by kickazz

[WingsallTheway 383]

By that logic Yzerman was worse in 97 and 98 than he was before Bowman got there because his scoring dropped off. Stamkos is a more complete player now than he was when he was up in the top in 3 scoring every year.

Can't really compare Stamkos to Yzerman, whether a player improves or not is purely a case-by-case basis. You could argue all day about that but the main point I wanted to make is Stammer is not even close to top 2 in the NHL.

Lol.

So I actually looked it up.

Datsyuk hasn't decline in possession metrics at all. (like I said in that other thread)

Stamkos's decline is nearly identical to Zetterberg's. Z was 54% in corsi while Stamkos was 53% last year. Both at 51% this year. Big dip.

Anyways to steer this back to topic. Technically Stamkos's value should drop. He simply isn't the 90 point scorer he was for like 3 seasons in a row. And as I've already pointed out - he isn't a more "complete player" like we think he is. He's just not the offensive player he was years ago. And defensively speaking he hasn't really gotten much better.

But obviously these damn teams will throw their money at him. Except Holland. I don't think Holland will pay him $10 million - because truly speaking I'm starting to wonder if Stamkos is really worth that much.

Who knows. Maybe I'm being overcritical now.

Also, this sums up pretty much everything I could ever think of do try and get my point across about Stamkos. Thank you haha

[frankgrimes 1,836]

If Stamkos isn't the second best player in the world who is? I understand, one could make an argurment for Jonathan Toews and if we count goalies of course Price but other than that? But my point still stands player of that ilk almost never make to UFA, so this is a very special thing. His production may be down but to me Stammer is a more complete, bigge, stronger player than he ever was and isn't. even in his prime yet. I could easily see him putting on even more muscle and end up at around 200 - 210 lbs which would mean, a guy in his prime with a lightning quick wrister that can bulldoze his way to the net...great thing for a team to have scary for the opposition if you ask me.

Is he worth 12 plus a year? Well honestly I don't care it's not my money (I'd happily pay it if I were as rich as some of the owners). But to me the whole thing is just a pipedream...there are more arguments against him coming here then otherwise. The core is aging, declining and the defense needs a fix Nobody knows what the future holds and I doubt the new arena is something that tops him going home or signing with a stanley cup contender in the off-season.

One thing is for sure, wheter people think he is worth it or not the guy will get paid tons of money and whichever does it will have a superstar before his prime.Just for the optics I fully expect the Red Bird III landing in Tampa this off-season if he doesn't re-sign. I just hope Newport doesn't pull another "audience" thing. Stamkos doesn't strike me as a guy who would appreciate that.

[kickazz 5,459]

If Stamkos isn't the second best player in the world who is?

Evgeni Malkin.

It's no competition at all. Malkin can carry his team when Crosby declines time and again. Stamkos hasn't been the same since Martin St. Louis left.

If Stamkos miraculously came here his only job should be to shoot the puck and score goals. We don't need anymore "complete" players.

Edited March 21, 2016 by kickazz

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Evgeni Malkin.

It's no competition at all. Malkin can carry his team when Crosby declines time and again. Stamkos hasn't been the same since Martin St. Louis left.

If Stamkos miraculously came here his only job should be to shoot the puck and score goals. We don't need anymore "complete" players.

Nope he is not a better complete player. There is more to hockey than just points. The way Crosby has carried this team has been ridiculous guy is putting up points left and right.

For sure he hasn't been the same who is going to pass him the puck?

the point of signing Stamkos would be to replace Pasha after next year. Which means he would be able to play his favorite positions ..center and do some defensive work

[WingsallTheway 383]

Evgeni Malkin.

It's no competition at all. Malkin can carry his team when Crosby declines time and again. Stamkos hasn't been the same since Martin St. Louis left.

If Stamkos miraculously came here his only job should be to shoot the puck and score goals. We don't need anymore "complete" players.

Yeah, I think being a "complete player" can be a bit overrated at times. If someone scores 70 points but is above average defensively doesn't make them better than someone who gets 110 points.

In a given game, I'll take a number of players over Stamkos.

Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Kane, Keith, Doughty, Price, Ovechkin, Benn, Seguin. The only two players here who's offensive output doesn't nullify theyre lack of defence are potentially OV and Kane.

If I'm starting a franchise today, I still take Crosby, Toews, Kane, Keith, Doughty, and Seguin over Stamkos.

And Frank, with your logic; Kopitar should be the best player in the NHL because he is as good defensively as anyone and he also has 24G 41A +31. Offence isnt everything but neither is defence. Its not like Stamkos is a perrential Selke candidate.

Edited March 21, 2016 by WingsallTheway

[kickazz 5,459]

Nope he is not a better complete player. There is more to hockey than just points. The way Crosby has carried this team has been ridiculous guy is putting up points left and right.

For sure he hasn't been the same who is going to pass him the puck?

the point of signing Stamkos would be to replace Pasha after next year. Which means he would be able to play his favorite positions ..center and do some defensive work

Really? By your own admission then Anze Kopitar and Patrice Bergeron are better than Toews and better than Stamkos

Both Kopitar and Bergeron have MORE points than Stamkos and Toews. And extremely good defensively (look at the selke candidates)

So the second best player must be either Kopitar and Bergeron. Not Stamkos. Nor Toews.

Which goes back to the original point.. Is Stamkos really worth $10? Will Holland even think he's worth throwing that much towards?

Because Kopitar just signed an extension worth $10 per year and is better than Stamkos (by your logic).

Edited March 21, 2016 by kickazz

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Really? By your own admission then Anze Kopitar and Patrice Bergeron are better than Toews and better than Stamkos

Both Kopitar and Bergeron have MORE points than Stamkos and Toews. And extremely good defensively (look at the selke candidates)

So the second best player must be either Kopitar and Bergeron. Not Stamkos. Nor Toews

This thread is about Stamkos, not Bergeron or Kopitar who are excellent players but Toews is almost perfect defensively and he will come up big in big games so there's that.

It obviously doesn't matter anyways because of all the guys mentioned only Stamkos might be available ...Which whether people think he is a top 5 player or not isn't relevant a guy this good usually doesn't make it to UFA. Anyhow like I said I think it's nothing more than a pipe dream...back in the good ol days Wings would have gotten him for sure.

If I'm building a franchise today I'd take Doughty because he fixes the hardest position to have...an elite number 1 defenseman. Guy will finally win his first Norris this year has been long overdue.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

This thread is about Stamkos, not Bergeron or Kopitar who are excellent players but Toews is almost perfect defensively and he will come up big in big games so there's that.

It obviously doesn't matter anyways because of all the guys mentioned only Stamkos might be available ...Which whether people think he is a top 5 player or not isn't relevant a guy this good usually doesn't make it to UFA. Anyhow like I said I think it's nothing more than a pipe dream...back in the good ol days Wings would have gotten him for sure.

If I'm building a franchise today I'd take Doughty because he fixes the hardest position to have...an elite number 1 defenseman. Guy will finally win his first Norris this year has been long overdue.

You asked him to name the second best player, then criticized his choices, gave your own, and steered the conversation away from what you asked?

And at the end steered your comment from toews, to doughty, which has even less to do with Stamkos given that he's a defenseman, not a center.

How does that make sense?!?

TOEWS is far from as close to perfect defensively as you can get.

Theres a handful of guys id tske in a defensive situation before toews..kopitar, bergeron, o'reilly, crosby, datsyuk, sedin, Zetterberg... all are just as good if not better in their own end/with their defensive zone assigments, and they all put up relatively similar(if not better) point totals.

I'd have included malkin in that list could he stay healthy...

You may consider toews clutch, or a big game player, but he's had just as many collapses as any other #1c in the league, the main difference being toews has had STACKED teams to support him.

And if you think malkin is only superior to toews in points accumulation, you don't watch him very often, malkin can DOMINATE when he's on, defensively and offensively. And he's huge and strong as hell.

I'd take malkin in a corner battle over 3 clones of toews.

I don't think Stamkos will ever be the player he was before his leg injury, and that's just offensively (which was his main selling point)

If him dropping from 50-60goals a year, to around 30 meant he became elite defensively he would absolutely be worth that 10+mill.

Yeah, guys with his pedigree don't usually make it to free agency anymore, but what he was isn't what he is now, which is all thst matters.

[Dabura 12,207]

Don't stop believing.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

To be honest Stamkos actually has significantly declined this year.

His point total last year was 72 (already much lower than his previous years bests) and is 58 this year with only 10 games left. He scored 43 goals last year and is at 33 this year.

His puck possession has dropped aka his corsi/fenwick.

So not only has he fallen off offensively but also in terms of his possession (which people like Buppy and Kipwinger consider a big part of defense).

Grit, faceoff, Takeaway/Giveaway ratio, shot blocking is all still similar to last year

He's also not playing his natural position and apparently hates his coach and the system. That will affect a player.

[WingsallTheway 383]

He's also not playing his natural position and apparently hates his coach and the system. That will affect a player.

I'd hate a system where I go from scoring 50-60 goals to 35-40 as well. Notice how they've gotten better as a team since? Why would Stamkos be happy in Detroit where his point totals will likely go down somewhere around 25% and have to focus even more on defence?

[Barrie 900]

I know Stamkos is expected to make a full recovery, but it'll be interesting to see if the injury effects his next contract.