• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

kliq

Red Wings at the Halfway Point

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Aren't we 1-1-1 against Washington?

We're 1-0-2 against them. We beat Washington in regulation once. They failed to beat us in regulation this year. Both times they won was decided in OT or in SO. We are one of their toughest competitions in my opinion. A lot of it has to do with Mrazek being rock solid against Ovechkin. Remember the game when Ovie had lik 15 shots on goal? Mrazek read him really well. Not many goalies can do that.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be more worried about facing Boston or Montreal (with Price) if it came down to playoff hockey to be honest. They play way too big for us.

Yep. Washington folds like a lawn chair in the second season. Boston has our number and we can't seem to muscle through (again a lack of defense) and we can't keep it in the zone long enough to shoot on Price enough times to score.

Im convinced that our lack of shots on is due to our forwards having to play defense in the O zone. You can't score if you are busy trying to grab loose pucks at the point because the D men aren't getting pushed around the boards. Thats not to only blame the D, our forecheck is non-existent and the reason pucks are squirting out of the zone.

I blame that on a lack of experience for a lot of guys who aren't used to NHL hockey yet. Not everyone walks onto pro ice and plays like Larkin, it takes a while to develop, especially for D men and to a lesser part wingers. I think we are doing better than I expected and it could be worse, we could have great but young players who play like Edmonton.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regular season records mean nothing in the playoffs. A few years ago we were 3-0-1 against Boston in the season. Met them in the playoffs and got smoked. Same thing with Tampa last year I'm pretty sure.

Washington is by far the better team, I get that it doesn't mean anything (see 05/06 Wings) but to say they fear us is just not true.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regular season records mean nothing in the playoffs. A few years ago we were 3-0-1 against Boston in the season. Met them in the playoffs and got smoked. Same thing with Tampa last year I'm pretty sure.

Washington is by far the better team, I get that it doesn't mean anything (see 05/06 Wings) but to say they fear us is just not true.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aren't you arguing against yourself? The 05/06 Wings were the best regular season team and won the presidents trophy and got knocked out in the first round. Hence, regular season doesn't mean jack. Washington could be the better team in the season but get knocked out first round of the playoffs for all that it matters. The same thing could be said about Detroit and Anaheim in 2003. Giguere single highhandedly shut us out of the playoffs.

Tampa had the season series on us last year and we took them to game 7 in the playoffs.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aren't you arguing against yourself? The 05/06 Wings were the best regular season team and won the presidents trophy and got knocked out in the first round. Hence, regular season doesn't mean jack. Washington could be the better team in the season but get knocked out first round of the playoffs for all that it matters. The same thing could be said about Detroit and Anaheim in 2003. Giguere single highhandedly shut us out of the playoffs.

Tampa had the season series on us last year and we took them to game 7 in the playoffs.

I compared the 05/06 team and said I get that great teams don't always win. Doesn't defeat the fact that Washington is the better team and would probably smoke us. Not sure what your argument is.

Tampa beat us in the regular season. Now what about Boston the year before? What was that record ? Regular season means nothing in the playoffs besides seeding. No way should we fear Montreal or Boston more. Washington is the complete package, have a Vezina goaltender, best goal scorer in the NHL, and one of the deepest top 9 lineups. There defense is also stacked with Orpik and Niskanen playing on there 2nd pairing, and Schmidt and Orlov on the 3rd.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anything can happen in the playoffs. I feel like health and luck are just as important in the post season as actual skill.

I agree. There are favourites but they don't always win, which is why I referenced the 05/06 Wings team. To say our chances are better against Washington because of regular season records is just not true. Washington is the team to beat in the East this year and it's not really close.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regular season records mean nothing in the playoffs. A few years ago we were 3-0-1 against Boston in the season. Met them in the playoffs and got smoked. Same thing with Tampa last year I'm pretty sure.

Washington is by far the better team, I get that it doesn't mean anything (see 05/06 Wings) but to say they fear us is just not true.

To an extent anything can happen, but I think there were things that can explain those changes of fortune against certain teams in the playoffs. Especially against Boston - weren't we incredibly banged up when it got to playoff time that year? I think that was the year of Z's back, Some key injuries, and we were riding Goose and Tats, DK in the season - who were rookies and all disappeared in the playoffs. Those players now have experience so there shouldn't be any drop off in the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To an extent anything can happen, but I think there were things that can explain those changes of fortune against certain teams in the playoffs. Especially against Boston - weren't we incredibly banged up when it got to playoff time that year? I think that was the year of Z's back, Some key injuries, and we were riding Goose and Tats, DK in the season - who were rookies and all disappeared in the playoffs. Those players now have experience so there shouldn't be any drop off in the playoffs.

Exactly. We lost Datsyuk most of the season along with Zetterberg in February (who was arguably having an MVP season that year).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I compared the 05/06 team and said I get that great teams don't always win. Doesn't defeat the fact that Washington is the better team and would probably smoke us. Not sure what your argument is.

Tampa beat us in the regular season. Now what about Boston the year before? What was that record ? Regular season means nothing in the playoffs besides seeding. No way should we fear Montreal or Boston more. Washington is the complete package, have a Vezina goaltender, best goal scorer in the NHL, and one of the deepest top 9 lineups. There defense is also stacked with Orpik and Niskanen playing on there 2nd pairing, and Schmidt and Orlov on the 3rd.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's fine. You can say "well it doesn't matter what the season record is - they're the complete package".

All that's being pointed out is facts and statistics for the current season. And the fact of the matter is the record between Detroit and Washington is what it is. 2 wins to Washington in OT/SO and 1 win for Detroit in regulation. It's facts and figures that's proof. What is or what could be or what happened between Boston and Detroit doesn't correlate with what happened this season with Washington/Detroit.

Going into the playoffs, hockey analysts aren't going to base their arguments off of "well let's ignore the season meetings between these two because 05/06 Detroit was number 1 and you know how that went". Instead they'll look at the season match up between Detroit and Washington and use that as an indicator. Now is that the only indicator? Obviously not. Injuries among other things could also be a determining factor.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To an extent anything can happen, but I think there were things that can explain those changes of fortune against certain teams in the playoffs. Especially against Boston - weren't we incredibly banged up when it got to playoff time that year? I think that was the year of Z's back, Some key injuries, and we were riding Goose and Tats, DK in the season - who were rookies and all disappeared in the playoffs. Those players now have experience so there shouldn't be any drop off in the playoffs.

The problem is now we're riding Larkin and he has zero postseason experience. Which is a big factor in why I'm not expecting much this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Larkin point is true. He doesn't have experience which could hurt us. But I also think that Mrazek has vastly improved this year, which could be a game changer for the team.

For sure. And if Holland acquires somebody to help alleviate the offensive burden that is on Larkin (or a couple other players on the team pick it up) the Wings could go deep. Afterall, we're comfortably sitting third in the conference right now. Its not like we're even a fringe playoff team at the moment like the past couple years. And who knows, Larkin might be a playoff phenom too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is now we're riding Larkin and he has zero postseason experience. Which is a big factor in why I'm not expecting much this year.

That's true, but that's only one player who doesn't have playoff experience as oppose Ny, Tat, DK and I think Sheahan and Jurco that year vs. Boston.

Also, Larkin jumped into the NHL without transition problems and the WJ and WC - He seems pretty good at jumping into pressure situation and performing. Hopefully that continues in the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To an extent anything can happen, but I think there were things that can explain those changes of fortune against certain teams in the playoffs. Especially against Boston - weren't we incredibly banged up when it got to playoff time that year? I think that was the year of Z's back, Some key injuries, and we were riding Goose and Tats, DK in the season - who were rookies and all disappeared in the playoffs. Those players now have experience so there shouldn't be any drop off in the playoffs.

Everyone is banged up at that time of year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's true, but that's only one player who doesn't have playoff experience as oppose Ny, Tat, DK and I think Sheahan and Jurco that year vs. Boston.

Also, Larkin jumped into the NHL without transition problems and the WJ and WC - He seems pretty good at jumping into pressure situation and performing. Hopefully that continues in the playoffs.

He is only one player, but he's also contributed to 28.3% of all the Wings' goals this year, either scoring it himself or assisting on the goal. Even after Nyquist went on that sick goalscoring tear at the end of the season, he had points on only 22.1% of Wings' goals that season. Tatar and the rest of them even less. But you're right in that the added offensive output of Nyquist, Tatar, Dekeyser, etc is greater than what Larkin has done this year, but if Larkin is shut down in the playoffs in a similar way that most other Wings' rookies have been shut down, and nobody replaces that lost output, the Wings are losing ~28% of their goals. Considering most of our games we score 2 to 3 goals a game, that amounts to roughly one less goal per every other game. That stat becomes even scarier when you factor in most of our wins are by one goal.

In other words: right now this team lives and dies with Larkin. A strong portfolio is a diverse one, with contributions spread out through the group. Either the team starts pitching in more, Holland picks up a reliable offensive weapon before the trade deadline (these are the two options that will diversify our portfolio), or we ride our playoff hopes on an admittedly impressive rookie with zero seconds of NHL playoff experience, and hope he can continue the same output in a playoff environment.

edit: I guess another option would be for Mrazek and the defense to post shutouts every other game.

Edited by Echolalia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is only one player, but he's also contributed to 28.3% of all the Wings' goals this year, either scoring it himself or assisting on the goal. Even after Nyquist went on that sick goalscoring tear at the end of the season, he had points on only 22.1% of Wings' goals that season. Tatar and the rest of them even less. But you're right in that the added offensive output of Nyquist, Tatar, Dekeyser, etc is greater than what Larkin has done this year, but if Larkin is shut down in the playoffs in a similar way that most other Wings' rookies have been shut down, and nobody replaces that lost output, the Wings are losing ~28% of their goals. Considering most of our games we score 2 to 3 goals a game, that amounts to roughly one less goal per every other game. That stat becomes even scarier when you factor in most of our wins are by one goal.

In other words: right now this team lives and dies with Larkin. A strong portfolio is a diverse one, with contributions spread out through the group. Either the team starts pitching in more, Holland picks up a reliable offensive weapon before the trade deadline (these are the two options that will diversify our portfolio), or we ride our playoff hopes on an admittedly impressive rookie with zero seconds of NHL playoff experience, and hope he can continue the same output in a playoff environment.

Nyquist only played half of that season so if he scored 22.% of the total year's goals that a lot more of the team scoring than Larkin currently who has played roughly the same amount of games as the rest of the team. But I agree that the rest of the team needs to start producing

Everyone is banged up at that time of year.

That's just a cliche - some team's have more injuries. Bergerons' broken ribs were a little more banged up in that final than the usual aches and pains of the playoffs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nyquist only played half of that season so if he scored 22.% of the total year's goals that a lot more of the team scoring than Larkin currently who has played roughly the same amount of games as the rest of the team. But I agree that the rest of the team needs to start producing

No it isn't. If we looked at just the second half of the season when Nyquist was in the lineup then that would be true, but when Nyquist wasn't on the active roster the Wings still had to score goals (and did). Regardless of when Nyquist was brought up or how many games he played, 78% of the goals scored that year Nyquist wasn't involved in. In other words, the Wings had demonstrated they were capable of scoring without relying on him. Now, its true that in the second half everyone was injured and Nyquist had to shoulder the load, but injuries are a different issue altogether. Right now the Wings are pretty healthy, and the heavy reliance on Larkin is still there.

But even if Nyquist was involved in 100% of the goals that year, my point still stands that isn't a good thing to have all your eggs in one basket (that's a rookie), and it sounds like we're in agreement on that aspect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now